There are only two genders. Change my mind.

Discussion in 'General Off-Topic Chat' started by GhostLatte, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. Depravo

    Depravo KALSARIKÄNNIT

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    Purgatory
    Imagine being so insecure in your own masculinity that you need to make this thread.
     
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  2. azoreseuropa

    azoreseuropa GBAtemp Guru

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    Yeah, more dads staying home with the kids or no kids while mom/wives works.
     
  3. landysmods

    landysmods Member

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    Gender is so old fashioned. Transhumanism is where it's at.
     
  4. KidIce

    KidIce Smart Ass

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    My World Book 1983 Dictionary absolutely defines gender as sex (also the grouping of nouns into classes such as male, female or neuter; and one of such classes) and declares the kind/sort/class definition to be archaic. I'm not trying to say that your "until recently" comment is wrong (1983 isn't exactly very long ago in the whole of human history or the English language), but my point here is that people who believe the word to be synonymous w/ sex aren't inaccurate. It is a valid definition of the word.

    I couldn't care less how one identifies and/or chooses to display that identity. I'm not homo/trans/etc.-phobic or insensitive to the issues that often causes someone who isn't cisgender. The thing is though, most of these discussions end up turning in to fights because both sides are under the impression the word CANNOT mean both things. So person "A" who looks it up in his Webster's Big Book o' Words and reads and follows the "sex" definition is usually branded an ignorant bigot/Nazi by person "B" who follows the "identifies as" definition. Person "A" also then usually brands person "B" as a lunatic... Neither brand is fair or necessarily correct, though.

    The whole discussion is usually pretty pointless when discussed this way, most people can't be convinced to accept the other definition as valid. And fighting over it isn't a good plan if you actually care about and want to do something about the real issues... The problems LGBTQ people face due to bigotry and intolerance and their rights to live/present as they choose. Tackle that instead, fighting over the word "gender" isn't winning any friends on either side and only fans the flames IMO. I just can't see it as anything but a waste of energy and a blockade to fixing the real problem.
     
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  5. Something whatever

    Something whatever Gazer of the East

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    It's 2019. You're socially allowed to be into whatever you want.
     
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  6. XDel

    XDel Author of Alien Breed: Projekt Odamex

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    Another Huxleyian Dystopia
    The word "woman" is derived from the words "womb" and "man". The word "womb" is in fact a biological indicator, hence the denotation.
     
  7. Captain_N

    Captain_N GBAtemp Maniac

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    This is true, but now society makes others except it or your called a hater. You can be loss jobs over not calling someone their proper pronoun.
     
  8. AmandaRose

    AmandaRose The Fallen Angel

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    You are so wrong lol but nice try.
    Its actually a misconception that the term "woman" is etymologically connected to "womb". "Womb" is actually from the Old English word wambe meaning "stomach" (modern German retains the colloquial term "Wampe" from Middle High German for "potbelly").

    The spelling of "woman" in English has progressed over the past millennium from wīfmann to wīmmann to wumman, and finally, the modern spelling woman. In Old English, wīfmann meant "female human", whereas wēr meant "male human". Mann or monn had a gender-neutral meaning of "human", corresponding to Modern English "person" or "someone"; however, subsequent to the Norman Conquest, man began to be used more in reference to "male human", and by the late 13th century had begun to eclipse usage of the older term wēr. The medial labial consonants f and m in wīfmann coalesced into the modern form "woman", while the initial element wīf, which meant "female", underwent semantic narrowing to the sense of a married woman ("wife").
     
  9. KingVamp

    KingVamp Haaah-hahahaha!

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    There are exceptions to the "rules", but genetics still have rules.
     
  10. Something whatever

    Something whatever Gazer of the East

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    .....Yup which is why I call everyone "mec" *dude in french* if I don't know the gender. Almost happened to me at work >_>.
     
  11. vinstage

    vinstage zz

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    Technically there's only two sex's for sure that's science.

    However gender is however you identify yourself so you can determine your gender however you want, it's your identity.
    Like your virginity, you can actually determine what's losing your virginity and what isn't. That's my take on it anyway, as long as it doesn't harm anyone then sure but there'll always be controversy on it.

    We have these kind of discussions in my psychology class. Amazing.
     
    Last edited by vinstage, Feb 9, 2019
  12. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Change my mind is a format some like to use when discussing a position that some consider to be ill informed or outrageous. "This is my position, I know you may no like it so make your case as to why I am wrong" being a fairly good alternative phrasing.

    As for two genders then as I understand it then it has two main paths.

    1) Some people use it as a shorthand for denying the need to acknowledge aspects of transgenderism/transgender individuals. This breaks down several more times as there are a lot of aspects to the debate for some people -- some simply mean it as a statement that transgender does not exist, others would say it does exist but then have other thoughts on how one should approach it.
    Others still would take other paths that others find very odd and also appear to fly in the face of generally accepted biology, medicine and observed reality.

    2) There are some people in the world that like to say there are basically infinite genders.

    ---

    I already went with my thoughts on the matter as a whole ( https://gbatemp.net/threads/there-are-only-two-genders-change-my-mind.502144/page-5#post-7939807 ). Though for the sake of the simplistic thing I would say there are two genders, and I don't care what your head reckons it is and whether that matches the genitals you were born with.
    The people I was referring to in the latter part of 1) would typically be called social constructivists. They often say that sex and gender is a thing made up by man and thus can be anything you want it to mean, this despite clear and observable traits wherever you go in the world, however far removed different humans are from each other, regardless of whether you find some isolated tribe in the jungle or someone in a big city, whether you look at babies that can't know anything, whether you look at animals, whether you look at edge cases (damaged genitals), when you throw around hormones into people and observe the results...
    It gets even more fun if you want to consider history -- old school European aristocracy had high heels as the height of fashion for men, long nails have also long been a sign that you don't have to work with your hands, some would tell me that blue and pink swapped as the colours for a given gender at one point. Yet today they are what they are with regards to being associated with a given gender.

    For 2) then I quite like the following video for highlighting how ridiculous it can be


    If you want to box up aspects of your personality and give it a proper noun then so be it. Why I would care to have it supplant or basically render infinite and thus unknowable the otherwise useful concept of gender I do not know.
     
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  13. XDel

    XDel Author of Alien Breed: Projekt Odamex

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    Another Huxleyian Dystopia
    I was just reading up on this, I believe you have some info correct, though I am seeing the Latin origins being in the 1500's, though that is neither here nor their. That being said, the problem with Entomology, is that much of it is hard to trace, and often times, the Chinese, Egyptians, Indians, etc. that schooled the Greeks, Romans, and generally the whole back bone of modern history; never seem to have their place in the records. Either way, distinction between genders is noted far before the 13th century; early Christian texts being but one of many examples, and there are of course far older examples too.
     
  14. BiggieCheese

    BiggieCheese Advanced Member

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    It’s pretty funny when the people that constantly make fun of “special snowflakes” for being PC and getting mad at words then turn around and get mad at them for using certain words.
     
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  15. bigretromike

    bigretromike Newbie

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    you are right, no point in changing your mind. :rofl2:
     
  16. Lucifer666

    Lucifer666 all the world needs is me

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    Just wanna give credit here to the only addition to this discussion worth anything. Acknowledges all sexual variations in biology, acknowledges that gender is often a social construct, and that transgender people experience a deeply rooted identity mismatch beyond their choice or control.
     
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  17. Waygeek

    Waygeek GBAtemp Regular

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    Ethnic groups exist. People's arguments is that this concept may extend to people's genders. Whether you or I agree or don't agree with that.
     
  18. notimp

    notimp GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    You can not be fired for addressing someone with the wrong pronoun. And if you were, get a lawyer to get some money out of that company on your way out. :)

    Leaving wrong sentiments like that stand, is what creates most of the animosity, so lets not.

    Also would it hurt you to stop posting youtuber clickbait? (Peppe the Frog and gangsigns? I dont think you are helping. ;) )
     
    Last edited by notimp, Feb 13, 2019 at 5:36 PM
  19. bitjacker

    bitjacker GBAtemp Disorderly

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    I really hope that gender dysphoria is added back in to the dsm 6
     
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