The Weekly Temp 32: F-I-N-I-S-H-E-D

Terminator02

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Urza, Sloshy, and Terminator02 discuss homosexual iPads, on-disc DLC, and Girls-Around-Megate while Urza says entitlement countless times and we all beg for more user precipitation.

Topics:
Rumor: Apple Working On Physical Game Controller For iPad
Girls Around Me
Star Wars kinect
EA voted worst company in America in Consumerist
Capcom defending on-disc DLC
Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut
Amazon on PS3
Google’s Project Glass
Instagram for Android
Lumia 900
0×10^c

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Qtis

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Holy.. Somehow my subwoofer took a good happy time with the podcast bass intro. Hope my neighbors didn't mind it :P

Good show on the podcast!
 

xist

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Why is it entitled F-I-N-I-S-H-E-D this time? Sounds ominous...perhaps more than it should do?
 

Jan1tor

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I totally agree with Sloshy about DLC. I don't mind paying for DLC (downloadable content), I do mind paying for DLC (Download code) to unlock what is already on the disc. I buy a disc presuming that it is the finished product with all the features I need. Anything extra should actually be downloaded. Now for something like Need for speed the run where you can unlock by playing or unlock by paying gives you the choice (play or pay). Any cars added are downloaded not unlocked from the disc.
It just sorta makes me mad when a manufacturer makes a disc with the full intent of making a certain portion of that disc DLC knowing full well that they are going to sell it to you. Add on content should be added on not unlocked. I know sounds stupid but that is how I feel. And as Terminator02 said if you want everything on the disc and that would make it $90 bucks then so be it, and then nobody would buy it.
It is because companies know that they can get the bucks out of you a little at a time by calling it DLC and they know you wouldn't buy it at the high price.
Think of it as one of the many growing reward systems I am getting sick of (Everybody has rewards now) to get you to buy stuff when they could just lower the price and do the same but it is shown people will buy more often with rewards than just a lower price. It is all a mind game and I won't play that game. So as you said..... I just don't buy the add on content.
 

Jan1tor

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One more thing. I do enjoy looking forward to hearing each and every tempcast. I used to listen to them on Saturdays but ahemm....... Oh well I'll listen when they are posted. I get a lot of laughs and some great infos and insights. Keep up the good work, hope a lot more that I are listening.
 

gundambot

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It was an interesting discussion about the DLCs, in particular to this Capcom instance.
Though I felt there are issues pertinent to DLCs in general that are less often discussed. The real problem is often clouded by the more common complains such as 'day 1' or 'whether the content is on disc'.

For housekeeping:
Whether the content is already 'on-disc' is not the problem - they could just make you having to download the whole thing (instead of the unlock key) and occupy your hard drive space. That would be worse.
The time frame which DLCs come out after the game release also matters little - parts of the game sold separately a month after the game's release is exploiting; while parts of the game sold separately day one blatantly translates to "you are getting ripped-off and how do you like that?" - It's just a matter of extent.

The real problem is that, developers/publishers are holding back contents which are parts to a complete game and selling those on the side. The current system (of delivery, if you will) is not only endorsing but encouraging that.
In contrary of DLC's original intent of adding extra content and extending a game's life, they are exploited far more often than being used constructively.

A valid argument that Terminator02 brought up is that, 'whether one feels having received a complete experience after playing the game [without the DLCs]. This notion is however, subjective to each person.
(one could easily argue for the Capcom case, as 'characters' are the core of a fighting game - it's what you are playing for, hardly could ever be considered 'extras')
The 'entitlement' card gets thrown around too often as well: players' feeling of entitlement (whether this actually exist or not) has everything but at the same time, nothing to do with the DLC issue. Players have been buying games the same way all along - it's the first party that have changed their ways of delivery over the years.

While the players have little choice in how complete the game is that they purchase (as publishers could lock parts of the game away as they see fit); and perceived completeness of a game is solely based on our subjective experience (which could be argued both ways) - the publishers (and to a lesser extent in most cases, the developers) are actually encouraged to hold back parts of the game, and sell them separately, through one of delivery methods of 'DLC'.
(pre-order bonus, retail exclusive, and other forms of micro-transactions can all be considered delivery methods of 'DLC')

The 'mona lisa' paintings used as a DLC analogy has been around for a while, but in case you haven't seen it. It's here, and here
(i think the idea illustrated by the pictures are self-expository)

Relating back to the Capcom case, without DLC delivery methods,
Capcom would, definitely have included all of the 12 'extra' character in the integral release of the game - in an effort that 'a game as perfect as possible will generate the most sales';
or another possible scenario would be:
those characters (and potential revisions to the game) will be included in a updated release of the following year - hoping the 'extras' could push the sales of the 2nd iteration of the same game.

However,
Current DLC system gives the video game publishers/developers a means, and even worse, an incentive to not produce complete or 'as perfect as possible games', but rather intentionally holding contents back in hopes to generate extra revenue selling them separately. This is unhealthy for the console game industry. (especially in long-terms)

It's important that we keep the arguments specific to console and handheld gaming. The distinction is that, for the most part, console and handheld gaming does not traditionally endorse the practice of any micro-transactions (even up to the 6th generation). This distinction between console gaming and other media (such as iOS, pc gaming, mmo, etc) is vital - the console gaming niche has been buying complete games.

From a perspective, we can see the most heavy DLC tend to occur in established IPs and popular series/name-brand games. Because this is where they are mostly likely able to 'pull-it-off'. This very fact tells us that the nature of most DLCs is to exploit.
Players with a certain prior knowledge and attachment to a series are the most likely to purchase 'extra' contents, in effort for their gaming experience to be most complete. Most negative notion towards DLCs are also voiced by the similar group of players who actually care about the established IPs and the industry.
This turns into a vicious circle, as the industry's most loyal supporters are also being the most heavily exploited.
Companies may be profiting from the micro-transactions of DLCs in the short-term. But it is not worth compromising the culture of the console gaming base. Like mentioned in the tempcast, people will eventually 'vote with their money' and stop endorsing this practice.

I have linked this article for anyone that would like to read more on the topic:
http://www.maycontai...ploited-by-dlc/

Some quotes I found worth noting:
I don't like the nagging feeling that I get with some games, that something has been left out so they can add DLC later.
If there was no option for adding DLC later, would we really be seeing the likes of Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine launch with only five multiplayer maps?
If enough people pay for [it], no matter how grudgingly, then the publisher or developer will take that feedback and say [it] was worth that money. Rant on the forum all you like.. but actions speak louder than words, and buying the item supports their decision to carry on exactly as they are.
...and the idea has been suggested that eventually we’ll see schemes where you barely get anything for your initial purchase, but have to unlock the rest of the game in pieces, with a fee for each one.
 

NakedFaerie

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My thoughts on DLC are I think its wrong if its done on the way with the game.
DLC is supposed to be extra stuff made AFTER the game is finished so when they are saying "Oh, this game is going out in 6 months and it'll have this DLC" thats just wrong. So they are making the DLC with the game. This way they are forcing you to pay more for the game as that isn't really DLC, its part of the game thats missing that you have to pay extra for.

And DLC on the disc SHOULD NOT BE DLC and SHOULD NOT COST EXTRA and SHOULD NOT BE DLC IN THE FIRST PLACE.
If its on the disc you should have access to it.
What about all those people that dont get online with their console. They can never play what they own.
They paid for the disc, they own that now. so putting DLC on that disc is wrong. I dont care if its free or paid, if its on the disc it should already be part of the game and you should NOT be forced to get online or pay to play it.

DLC started as an extra AFTER the game was finished. Doom had DLC and it was made AFTER the game was finished and that DLC did NOT come with the game. Thats real DLC and I dont mind paying for that but when it comes along with the game and released 0-day or on the disc thats just wrong and thats the way the game companies make more money out of you. Its not nothing about "oh, does it affect the gameplay or whatever" its just a way they can force more money from the gamer.

If the DLC comes on the disc I do everything I can to hack that and get it for free as I'm not going to pay twice for something I already own. YES I OWN IT! I paid money for that disc and whatever is in it is mine now. I own my console and can do what I want with it as I also paid money for that too.
If they dont like it then they can give me back my money and take the games and console as I'm not renting it I OWN IT!

What happens when you buy a cup from the shop. You take it home and do what you want with it. Same as a game or a console or anything I pay money for. Its mine and I will not pay twice for what I own.
 

Terminator02

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One more thing. I do enjoy looking forward to hearing each and every tempcast. I used to listen to them on Saturdays but ahemm....... Oh well I'll listen when they are posted. I get a lot of laughs and some great infos and insights. Keep up the good work, hope a lot more that I are listening.
I don't mean to make excuses but... here are some excuses.

Last week it was posted late Sunday because iFish couldn't get his audio to me until mid-day on Sunday, and this latest week I was trying to get all of the work done on a slow laptop with an abysmal wifi connection. My personal goal is to have them up each week by 11pm EST on Saturday at the latest, but sometimes it's earlier, sometimes it's later. I'll do what I can to keep the releases more consistent.

I agree with all of what you've said. I don't think I clearly articulated on the podcast that I realize that Capcom was clearly holding content back in this case and that I think that's an exploitative model. The thing is, like I said, people need to analyze if what they are buying is worth it to them, that goes for both the game itself and the DLC. We're definitely moving towards more and more DLC, with publishers trying to squeeze out as much money as possible out of their most hardcore audience, they just need to be putting out compelling DLC while still putting out a compelling game.

Edit:
...

They paid for the disc, they own that now. so putting DLC on that disc is wrong. I dont care if its free or paid, if its on the disc it should already be part of the game and you should NOT be forced to get online or pay to play it.

...

If the DLC comes on the disc I do everything I can to hack that and get it for free as I'm not going to pay twice for something I already own. YES I OWN IT! I paid money for that disc and whatever is in it is mine now. I own my console and can do what I want with it as I also paid money for that too.
If they dont like it then they can give me back my money and take the games and console as I'm not renting it I OWN IT!

What happens when you buy a cup from the shop. You take it home and do what you want with it. Same as a game or a console or anything I pay money for. Its mine and I will not pay twice for what I own.
I see this argument a lot, usually compared to buying a movie or a CD. The thing is, when you're buying the disc, it isn't media encoded in an open standard that can be played on any device. It's locked into the ecosystem of whatever console you bought it for, so the company in control of the ecosystem can do as they please.

They make the argument that you are not actually buying the disc itself, you are buying content through the medium of the disc. They are saying that you don't own what's on the disc, you simply have licensed whatever content that they want to make available to you, and you access it via that disc.

While I'm not certain of the legality of who's right, it's obviously happening now. So, one could assume that the law stands on the publishers' side.
 

Terminator02

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Keep up the good work, hope a lot more that I are listening.

My grammar went to hell! Should of been. Keep up the good work. I hope there is a lot more, I love listening!
I thought it was Keep up the good work, hope a lot more than I are listening.

I like your interpretation better.
 

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