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The US Supreme Court has just abolished Affirmative Action in regards to college/university admissions. Do you believe this is right or wrong?

WalterSlovotsky

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In their 6-3 vote, race will no longer be a consideration in accepting students to either public or private institutions of higher learning in America.

Much of the concurrence came from the fact that, for example, Asian students were given much, much higher bars of entry, while other minority groups were given massive bonuses to help them get accepted.

Do you believe the Supreme Court made the right call?
 

Xzi

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They didn't abolish affirmative action, it's still very much in place for the only people SCOTUS considers a protected class: the rich. Just means underachieving legacies get more available spots over high school kids who actually put in the work. Might as well skip a few steps and have print-out Ivy League degrees you can buy online for a few hundred thousand each.
 

WalterSlovotsky

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This DOES kind of seem unfair, though:

MCAT Affirmation.jpg
 
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Xzi

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College should be free like it is in almost every other 1st World Country. It's just part of being in school K-College
Yep, our education system only continues to get worse over time as it caters more and more to remedial rich kids.

This is great, now colleges can't be racist.
Not sure where you're getting that idea...Southern colleges are free to start accepting exclusively white students again following this ruling. I give it a month at most before we start hearing about it in the news.
 

WalterSlovotsky

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College should be free like it is in almost every other 1st World Country. It's just part of being in school K-College
Literally nothing in this world is "free". Teachers deserve to be paid, and paid a hell of a lot more than they are right now.


Nothing, NOTHING is "Free".
College should be free like it is in almost every other 1st World Country. It's just part of being in school K-College
Nothing is free, and no teacher should be expected to work for free. Books aren't free. Land isn't free. Electricity isn't free.

Higher education is elective, and not all jobs require higher education. The only way that it SHOULD be free is if higher education were a mandate to get a decent job, which it is not. This is not talking about trade schools. It's talking about private and public universities and colleges.

When it comes to a TRADE, which pretty much runs this entire country, race has never been a qualifying factor, because you have to actually WORK when you get a degree in that field. You aren't just getting a piece of paper saying you memorized enough bullshit to pass a test so you can get into a job that you may or may not actually be qualified for. Funny how trade schools never come up in these conversations.

Because being a master of any trade requires PERSONAL EFFORT, work and merit. Has nothing to do with skin color. It's about YOU and the work YOU are willing to put in.

I am not onboard with ANYTHING being "free". I am all about merit and earning what you have, with no special consideration provided based on the accident of birth that made you whatever skin color you are, or whatever culture you were born into.

I like to support individual achievement, and not just give bonuses and benefits to people for things they had absolutely nothing to do with.
 
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Xzi

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Literally nothing in this world is "free". Teachers deserve to be paid, and paid a hell of a lot more than they are right now.
They're paid better and valued more in countries where people do have easier access to higher education, though.

I like to support individual achievement, and not just give bonuses and benefits to people for things they had absolutely nothing to do with.
Right, and as I'm sure you're aware, affirmative action was established because unremarkable white students were being accepted into colleges over remarkable students of all other races and ethnicities. Clarence Thomas would not have been given a college education if not for affirmative action, and so of course he's got to pull the ladder back up from behind him, Uncle Ruckus that he is.

Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.
 

WalterSlovotsky

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They're paid better and valued more in countries where people do have easier access to higher education, though.


Right, and as I'm sure you're aware, affirmative action was established because unremarkable white students were being accepted into colleges over remarkable students of all other races and ethnicities. Clarence Thomas would not have been given a college education if not for affirmative action, and so of course he's got to pull the ladder back up from behind him, Uncle Ruckus that he is.

Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.
Maybe before we we born. Not today, and absolutely not since the advent of the fifteen-second news cycle. If kids were being denied access to college, when they had the merit, based solely on race, this would be international news.

But it isn't. No student has been denied entry to any college or university when they qualified by merit, in the past almost 60 years. Way before anyone here was alive except for @AncientBoi . HE can tell us about those times. No one else here lived it.

There is no need for either HBCUs or Affirmative Action in regards to college acceptance in 2023. Everything should be based on merit, and the ship is being righted. Kind of. They still need to promote trade schools more. The schools that never denied anybody who was willing to actually... do work.
 

Xzi

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If kids were being denied access to college, when they had the merit, based solely on race, this would be international news.
It wasn't ever news because it wasn't happening with affirmative action in place. We're not in a "post-racist" society no matter what some people may try to make you think, and we may never reach that point. Abolishing AA is just another attempt to bury our nation's history out of shame.

Everything should be based on merit, and the ship is being righted.
Then legacy programs gotta go, as do admissions in exchange for donations. Any college more concerned with profit than the quality of the education it's providing should also receive some sort of mark of demerit, Ivy Leagues not excluded.
 

WalterSlovotsky

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It wasn't ever news because it wasn't happening with affirmative action in place. We're not in a "post-racist" society no matter what some people may try to make you think, and we may never reach that point. Abolishing AA is just another attempt to bury our nation's history out of shame.


Then legacy programs gotta go, as do admissions in exchange for donations. Any college more concerned with profit than the quality of the education it's providing should also receive some sort of mark of shame, Ivy Leagues not excluded.
I fully disagree. I think that the abolishment of Affirmative Action is America doing the right thing, and removing one of the last laws that could actually be considered "systemic racism".

Systemic racism can only exist if there is a law backing behavior. This law was racist at its outset, because it provided exclusive advantages or inflicted disadvantages to random individuals, based solely and exclusively on race. That is the only form of systemic racism that actually CAN exist, just like the Jim Crow laws that we abolished almost 60 years ago. And rightfully so.

No law on the books in America should provide either an advantage or disadvantage to any specific race, with the sole qualifier being which ethnic group that they fell into.

Do you disagree?
 
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Xzi

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Do you disagree?
Of course I do, it'd be ridiculous to not acknowledge the advantages being a white person in the US brings, and those advantages were tenfold before the advent of affirmative action. If it was put in place to grant an advantage to other races and ethnicities, then it failed at achieving that goal because it only managed to even the playing field at best.
 
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WalterSlovotsky

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Of course I do, it'd be ridiculous to not acknowledge the advantages being a white person in the US brings, and those advantages were tenfold before the advent of affirmative action. If it was put in place to grant an advantage to other races and ethnicities, then it failed at achieving that goal because it only managed to even the playing field at best.
I don't see it the same. At all. Especially since 2009-ish and on. Hating White people has become an entire culture. It's absolutely open season on anyone paler than the original Ariana Grande, before she culture-switched. Hating White folks is haute couture.

Most of us are kind of nice, though. Most of us never got any advantage. Most of us just had to struggle through life like anyone else, except no one ever gave us a break on anything, and we got blamed for everything anyone else went through that didn't go their way, because they just assumed it's smooth sailing for all mean, evil wypipo.

I like a level playing field where your merit is all that matters. Is that a bad way to look at the world? Really?
 
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Xzi

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I don't see it the same. At all. Especially since 2009-ish and on. Hating White people has become an entire culture. It's absolutely open season on anyone paler than the original Ariana Grande, before she culture-switched. Hating White folks is haute coutre.
I'm not "hating white people," I'm white. I'm acknowledging some objective truths about our past and present. Without affirmative action, admissions offices might as well skip to the part where they ask parents about their annual income. The morality of determining someone's worth from their bank account aside, that sounds like a "fair" method of determining eligibility, until you remember that some of those applying are descendants of slaves, and others the descendants of slave owners. You can probably take an educated guess as to who will have the bigger account nine times out of ten.

Even more ridiculous is that affirmative action was being considered "reparations" of sorts, despite the fact that very few of those impacted by slavery saw any benefit from it. I think this strengthens the argument that monetary reparations need to be paid to all those affected instead.
 
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WalterSlovotsky

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I'm not "hating white people," I'm white. I'm acknowledging some objective truths about our past and present. Without affirmative action, admissions offices might as well skip to the part where they ask parents about their annual income. The morality of determining someone's worth from their bank account aside, that sounds like a "fair" method of determining eligibility, until you remember that some of those applying are descendants of slaves, and others the descendants of slave owners. You can probably take an educated guess as to who will have the bigger account nine times out of ten.
This is why I debate with you.

Objective means that you are literally going off of anecdotal and historic experiences, that don't really have much relevance to current life in 2023. No one has been denied access to attend any institute of higher learning since the Jim Crow laws were abolished. And, since then, this is one of the ONLY laws that could be considered "systemic racism" that was abolished.

Americans at or above the age of 65 are the only ones who ever lived through Jim Crow laws. They make up about 16.8% of the population of the country, so the vast majority of living Americans NEVER went through this. Still crying, but never went through it.

We are almost at perfect parity now, in the eyes of the law. All men are created equal, and merit is all that matters.

Any effort towards that goal is one I approve of. This was a wonderful thing that the Supreme Court did, and now, college students will have to rely on their own talents and skills to get accepted, creating a fair playing field for all.

That is a step in the right direction, in my eyes.

If you want to talk about generational wealth, I have to present an uncomfortable truth. I am assuming, ignorantly but also by context, that you are referring to descendants of African slaves in America, and pointing out the disparity in generational wealth, which naturally would provide advantages to ANY American.

Black Americans enjoy a 77% unwed birth rate. This is the highest in American history, ALL of American history, and skyrocketed after several of LBJ's programs, specifically intended to remove the black father and replace it with the American government teat, and "Keep these folks voting Democrat for centuries to come". NOT what he said. What he actually said is something I refuse to repeat.

https://cis.org/Camarota/Births-Unmarried-Mothers-Nativity-and-Education

What part of the unwed birth rate do you consider to have an impact on generational wealth, or the lack thereof?

How can anyone else except for black men and women address the issue of their unwed birth rate and single-parent homes?
 
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Marc_LFD

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it'd be ridiculous to not acknowledge the advantages being a white person
Folks love to say Whites have privilege and are racist (because of their skin color they use racist terms like "Whiteness"), but they can never give any examples. It's fine to be racist against Whites/Asians and insult Christians, but others are protected.

Let's say the U.S. was a "huwhyte privilege" country, then it's guaranteed all non-Whites would be kicked out by Whites. Instead, it's Whites moving to other states/countries because of concerns of safety and so on. This is a myth that Whites have privilege, we don't. 😑

Even non-Whites are apparently White now:



And what is a woman? That's a question a lot seem unable to answer truthfully, too.



Come on, this is just sad.
 

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In their 6-3 vote, race will no longer be a consideration in accepting students to either public or private institutions of higher learning in America.

Much of the concurrence came from the fact that, for example, Asian students were given much, much higher bars of entry, while other minority groups were given massive bonuses to help them get accepted.

Do you believe the Supreme Court made the right call?
Good thing, everybody deserve been accepted based on their abilities and capacity nor discriminated by something does nothing to do with the proficiency
 

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