1. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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  2. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Last edited by notimp, Sep 13, 2020
  3. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
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    The bill would give the UK government the right to unilaterally change some of the arrangements made for the UK's only land border with the EU.

    LOL. I like how the article is framing this bit as 'yeah, okay, it's not really within what was agreed there'.
    It should really be diplomacy for dummies that you no longer have an agreement if you change the major principles you agreed on. It's basically Boris saying 'we want to go back to square one with our negotiations :D'.

    Edit : okay, I was wrong here. The 'framing' is really a quote by a minister (as outlined in the post below by @notimp)
     
    Last edited by Taleweaver, Sep 13, 2020
  4. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    In an international, contractual agreement, for the benefit of Northern Ireland.

    Then a UK minister stands up in the irish parlament (afair), and admits it - vers betum.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/08/uk/uk-brexit-legislation-international-law-intl/index.html

    This is not framed by media. This was tried to be framed by one of your ministers. Its just that the 'yes, but only in a very limited and exact way' phrase (framing, and also not at all 'we break off everything and want to go back to square one') was not followed entirely in reporting. (And thats a positive.. ;) As in journalists doing their job.)

    Stop lying. ;)
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 13, 2020
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  5. shamzie

    shamzie Oh David de Gea <3
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    The EU breaks international law all the time.

    1. The UK as a state retains its sovereign right to withdrawal from the EU, which is an international organisation
    2. When the UK exercised its right to leave, it participated in the WA process on the basis of an essential condition: agreement on a future permanent arrangement with the EU that enshrines UK sovereignty and secures an FTA
    3. The Protocol and other aspects of the WA are incompatible with the agreement intended for the end of 2020
    4. The EU has been acting in breach of a material term of the WA, meaning that the treaty was entered into on a false premise
    5. The Protocol is in breach of the ECHR principle of the right to vote
    6. The UK must exercise its right to suspend and terminate the WA obligations
    7. The UK must subsequently pass an Act of Parliament superseding the WA, in line with Parliamentary Sovereignty under Section 38 of the Withdrawal Agreement Act 2020

    You're also forgetting that Parliament is Sovereign, as Gina Miller inadvertently reminded us when she tried to stop brexit. Now that very court case has enabled the Government to override the bill.

    Stop boring me.
     
    Last edited by shamzie, Sep 14, 2020
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  6. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Thats using the word sovereignty a bunch, followed by must terminate, argued, because - the people. Hence a populistic argument, that has close to no bearing on how international diplomacy works. :)

    And then this:
    which is kind of true. :)

    In essence: We want sovereignty, but also want to keep Northern Ireland, so therefore we think we have to break international law to come up with a solution. ;) (Because having the trade relevant borders at sea, means less control over wares entry, which means less sovereignty, but we also promised ireland not to become separated again, and 85% of northern irish people are in favor of unrestricted trade with the EU and even a monetary union with the EU. (Because they benefit more from it, than trading with the heart of britannia. ;) ))

    edit:
    src: https://www.dw.com/en/brexit-uk-withdrawal-agreement/a-54861743
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 15, 2020
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  7. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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  8. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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  9. KingVamp

    KingVamp Haaah-hahahaha!
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    Such a mess.
     
  10. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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  11. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
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    Do I smell sarcasm here?

    Your quote ignores even the most important part of the sentence. I mean...this is what he actually said:


    Britain's chief Brexit negotiator David Frost said "outlines of an agreement" are visible, but the two sides remain far apart on many issues.
    "I am concerned that there is very little time now to resolve these issues ahead of the European Council (EU summit) on October 15," Frost said.

    Yeah..."outlines of an agreement". I've gotta remember that one. :P

    Just over a month from now:
    Fox news anchor: the dispute over the voting is still in massive swing, but the spokesmen of the advocates of the chamber of the senate house of representatives' supreme court has declared there are "outlines of an agreement" between the two parties.

    Early 2021:
    Johnson/Frost: while nobody in the world wants to give us anything but the minimal trade options, we have outlines of an agreement on Azerbaïdjan possibly changing their minds. :)
     
  12. Chains

    Chains GBAtemp Drifter
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    Did brexit ever even happen? I recall they brexited, then un brexited, and maybe did the 2 AGAIN? What did they eventually land on?
     
  13. shamzie

    shamzie Oh David de Gea <3
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    It happened but an ungodly amount of messing around and dithering has managed to stall the process by over 4 years. We will have officially left the EU on 31st of December 2020.
     
  14. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
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    Erm... They never 'un brexited'. As @shamzie says, there's some messing around, but that's on the rules and terms for the actual leaving. The actually leaving is no longer contested (assuming it ever was... Looking back, it's almost as if 'remaining in the eu' was a comedy last option in debates).

    Also... I might be wrong, but I thought the UK technically already left in March. This is just a transitioning period... Despite that this period is still used to come to terms with trading with the EU, rather than, y'know: already having those terms and allowing businesses time to adjust to the new rules.
     
    Last edited by Taleweaver, Oct 6, 2020
  15. emigre

    OP emigre i am a free i am not man a number
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    I'm personally looking forward to the estimated increases in my groceries. I think that's so far the biggest benefit I've noticed that Brexit is bringing.
     
  16. shamzie

    shamzie Oh David de Gea <3
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    Cool story bro, prices have always fluctuated. You're welcome to move to a country within the European Union to avoid those devastating grocery price increases. No? Just bullshit rhetoric from you with no intention of rectifying what you're crying about? Well, I'm shocked.
     
  17. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
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    Okay, I'll bite: what IS the biggest benefit for leaving? :)
    If you ask me, it's pretty normal for people to get cynic when there 's beating around the bush for four years with this little to show for it. I'm not sure why you're being so condescending, but if you' red in a bad mood, I can help with that...
    (note : only read if you'be got to unload more personal frustration)
    Brexit is a disaster!
    Boris is trying to grab absolute power rather than achieving the best for the citizens!
    Scotland is going to leave the UK because of your incompetence
    Your attempt for an orderly exit will go down in history as the most chaotic suicide a nation has ever performed!
    You'll be BEGGING to rejoin the EU within months. Perhaps weeks, but within months!

    There you go. Go nuts in going personal at me rather than face the fact that brexit might miss its intention. It'll do you good. :)
     
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  18. shamzie

    shamzie Oh David de Gea <3
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    I've no idea what the biggest benefit will be, I'm not a fortune teller. We shall have to wait and see, I didn't click the spoiler but its shows when i clicked reply lol you realise Wales and England both voted to leave the EU, so who exactly are you referring to when you say "your incompetence" awaiting the racist "little englanders" comment.

    The irony of talking about a powergrab when you're cheerleading for a corrupt undemocratic union that has people in power with no way of removing them. They're the literal definition of undemocratic powergrabs, I suspect you know this but "muhhhhhh unionnnnn" (Also Boris was voted into power with a massive majority. He can also be removed, you're talking utter shite as usual)

    Couldn't care less if Scotland leaves, we've propped them up for decades, they're hypocrites, they want to leave one union and gain independence just to throw it all away and join another. Personally I think the rest of the UK should have a vote on whether we want Scotland to remain.

    Maybe it will, maybe it won't. You've no idea, just a lot of blustering and wishful thinking on your part, which is kind of pathetic. Why would you want a country to fail just because they don't want to be a part of your little club, shows the spiteful disgusting thinking of many pro eu people and just adds fuel to the fire, It's another reason we voted to leave.

    Again, maybe we will, maybe we won't. Lets look at history, you've relied on us by far more than we have ever relied on you but sure, the tide is now turning and we'll be absolutely begging like Oliver to rejoin your corrupt democracy denying group.

    You've made plenty of comments stating them as fact when you don't have a clue, none of us know how it will go but the at the end of the day it has absolutely nothing to do with you, this is a decision by and for the people of the united kingdom. So quite frankly i couldn't give a flying fuck whether you think we'll fail or not, we've overcome bigger hurdles before and I'm sure we will again, you worry about paying off Greece, Spain, Ireland, Romania' etc etc debt and I'll worry about us. Thanks :)
     
    Last edited by shamzie, Oct 9, 2020
  19. Nightwish

    Nightwish GBAtemp Fan
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    In principle, the advantage is sovereignty to do things without caring whether some German company loses out or the Netherlands pipes some of it to Panama, while keeping trade about 97% the same by following WTO rules. As well as the unsavory things the EU claims to care about as long as no one look east or southward.
    Of course, most brexiters couldn't understand less the former and cheer the later (see above - same mentality as the feudal four, really), and neither party has any intention of fixing anything, or caring how it happens, but there is still no disaster (from leaving, not from Boris). At least the BoE has more clue than the ECB, despite the later figuring out that the rules that it is bounded by don't work.
    And neither has the SNP, independence while keeping the pound would be bad, adopting the Euro would be a hilarious disaster.

    All in all, everyone will be screwed by austerity in the end, and Asia will keep zooming forward as we keep toying with fake market-based financial solutions that don't produce anything or even add jobs. Sad way to go.
     
  20. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
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    Okay... I guess this is the the end of negotiations? :unsure:
    https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/16/boris-johnson-tells-uk-prepare-for-a-no-deal-brexit

    Better prepare for no deal brexit, because the EU won't budge on issues they've never said to budge. Yyyyeah... Apparently those 'outlines of an agreement' were just pipe dreams.

    Also interesting :

    A lot of progress has been made on such issues as social security and aviation, nuclear cooperation, and so on,” he [BoJo] said, but “for whatever reason, it’s clear from the [EU] summit that after 45 years of [UK] membership they are not willing, unless there’s some fundamental change of approach, to offer this country the same terms as Canada”.

    My first reaction : 'wait... If you just wanted the same deal as Canada... Why the fuck does it take to this point before you tell anyone? It's literally the first time there is an actual stance (I respect the ' no deal brexiteers' more in that : I disagree with them, but at least I know where they stand).
    My second reaction : wait... Since when does Canada border the EU?

    Well... At least it's clear that there'll be a no deal brexit... On Australian terms? :unsure:

    Meanwhile, the EU is busy being awesome as well...

    Von Der Leyen: the EU “continues to work for a deal, but not at any price. As planned, our negotiation team will go to London next week to intensify these negotiations.”

    Yeah, baby : intensify those negotiations! INTENSIFYYYYY! B-)B-)B-):hrth:
    4iquyr.jpg
     
    Last edited by Taleweaver, Oct 16, 2020
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