1. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    If you ever need proof that people are racial stereotyping here - read this:

    https://cy.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/2015-08-27

    Look at Non-EU immigration numbers for 2015 of people "looking for work".

    Look at EU 15 numbers of people "looking for work".

    Look at long term trends.

    In fact read the entire thing.

    If you then still want to protect people pushing illegal boaty in spain landed and the press didnt tell us was why the UK needed to leave the EU - no one can help you.

    If you want fancy bargraphs on how much the EU 2015 migration crisis affected the UK:
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Karte_Flüchtlingskrise_in_Europa_2015.png

    Words like - not at all come in mind, if you look at those numbers.

    What you are seeing are people requesting asylum in the respective countries, during what was coined the migration crisis.
    Data sources are eurostat and frontex.

    edit: Here is the same graph in english:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_migrant_crisis

    And if you scroll down a little you see EU wide asylum applicant numbers up to 2018.

    Read it.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Feb 14, 2020
  2. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Great news. One of the first things the UK bootsrapped after leaving the EU was new migration law.

    The rundown is, that EU workers in the UK get shafted, and that you now have a greater equalization that benefits people from all over the world - which get entry into the UK, when their skills are deemed in demand.

    Lets recap this for a moment. As your average borderline racist 4chan member vacationing on gbatemp for a short while - you shouted for months, we need brexit, to get out of the EU - so you could make it easier for a more diverse cast of 'foreigners' to enter the UK, as one of the first law proposals out of the gate.

    But no - no, you tell me, the new law now is mainly for qualified people, people which we need in the UK - for our economy. Well - according to the migration report linked above - EU migrants in the vast majority of cases (and the only subgroup growing), also already had job offers in the UK before migrating.

    So before they came from Poland. And after - they'll maybe more likely come from Bangladesh.

    So this is the racists paradox.

    You tell them its to get rid of the foreigners. They vote your way. You buy them champagne, a balloon, and a participation T-shirt/or cap, then you turn around and fuck them over as hard as you can - as a first order of business because none of them will ever realize, because - they are racists. Its not like they'd read or something.

    Tadaaa!

    And as a conservative government, you celebrate that you now are back in control only letting qualified people in - while mentioning not at all, that influx of non qualified ones, never was the issue. (Not when looking at the numbers.)

    There is this part in representative democracy - that really only needs people for legitimization. Its not that they have to understand correllations, they just have to vote. So how about giving you a circus clown as a party lead?

    Hey - worked in italy...

    src: f.e.: h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmcbWU8Du7A
     
    Last edited by notimp, Feb 20, 2020
  3. JoeBloggs777

    JoeBloggs777 GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    The only workers shafted are the ones who came to work in the UK from outside the EU, at least 5 years of paying Tax before you could get ILR and were able to apply for benefits that some from the EU could apply for virtually straight away.
     
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  4. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Clarification - 'relatively shafted' - so without acclimation periods, a new general ruleset is applied regardless if you came through inter EU migration, or not. Pretty swiftly - which as a EU migrant, having to change from one system to the other one without anyone really caring - is kind of getting shafted.

    The new migration policy is actually pretty egalitarian. (Merkesl 'Everybody (ok - qualified ;) ) is welcome' just in formal language.. ;) )

    But the idea here is - that its burrying the lead.

    If you look at migration numbers above 'reducing the number of unqualified migrants' - never was the issue for the UK. So racists voters are not getting what they have voted for.

    They are getting a 'mirage' of how things will significantly change - now that we got control back. The by far largest number of migration population the UK had a 'problem with' were skilled workers wiling to work for lower wages - those numbers arent getting touched, in fact under the new migration system, it arguably will be easier for people all over the world to migrate to the UK.

    This is how you play, and f*ck over people with racist stereotyping, in the political sphere. They get something that kind of sounds like, what they wanted, but not quite. Because no one is actually stupid enough to do what racists would want anyhow. basically.

    (Because it would hurt the economy.)
     
    Last edited by notimp, Feb 20, 2020
  5. FGFlann

    FGFlann GBAtemp Fan
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    You are asserting that "everyone" who voted for Brexit wanted to "get rid of the foreigners". Again you only assert that this is reality and provide the insults to go with it, dragging people who voted for whatever reasons they had into your box in order to defend themselves. It's becoming extremely tiresome.
     
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  6. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Yes I'm asserting, that racism was a major part of the Brexit victory - as is Dominic Cummings (lead strategist of the leave campaign), video linked in here.

    Just look at the youtube clip linked as f.e. source above. There you get 'the public voice' in relation to that government announcement. (Reporters picking up voice snippets in an old folks home.) That tells you everything you need to know really. :)

    So what you are dealing with in large numbers is 'latent racism' - and if you give people 'something, that sounds like they'd have wanted' - they actually feel relieved in large numbers. Thats how you play the racism game. Conservatively. :)

    But thats also manipulation. Now - is it good, or bad. You decide. :)


    We can also do the argument without racism. Lets say qualified inter EU migration was the issue britain voted to leave the EU for. That would be arguable economically (too much, too fast), if you look at the numbers.

    But then thats still not whats getting changed.

    Whats happening is a few hardliners telling people, we will clamp down on poor migrants - so our poor have more social spending left. But that objectively never was the issue, was it?

    Regardless - this is how you lie, but gallantly. :)

    Now here is the harder question for you. Should the media report that openly? (Nigel Farage (in the same video above) hints at this going on, but even he doest say it openly. Why. :) )
     
    Last edited by notimp, Feb 20, 2020
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  7. FGFlann

    FGFlann GBAtemp Fan
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    Good grief. I am slowly losing my tether.
     
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  8. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Quick answer - before you do.

    If you are Nigel Farage, you don't escalate it right now - because what do you gain? :) You dont want to rile up the public, when there is nothing to gain, do you? ;) (You can play the ideologist later.. ;) )

    If you are mass media, you dont tell people, you are dumb, looking at the wrong thing - because, let them decide for themselves, you are only reporting. And social stability. (You really dont want people rioting over ideology in the streets, if that would mean an even harsher economic impact - and you loosing your gig of 'we report what the state does' don't you. ;) )

    Now is the time for national reconciliation and myth building.

    If something is mainstream compatible, no one (of significance) complains about mass media, really. Ever.
    That has a self strengthening effect on what journalism does. And yes, media very much has noticed that 'public interaction'.

    But the truth..... Eh. ;)
     
    Last edited by notimp, Feb 20, 2020
  9. FGFlann

    FGFlann GBAtemp Fan
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    Thank you, Mr Jones. Please tell me more about the interdimensional demons and their plans for the souls of all mankind.
     
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  10. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    I never did.

    I told you to look at the political processes that are happening right after the big champagne stadion events like "We done brexit" featuring Farage, happened, that meant absolutely nothing. Migration poilicy does.

    And showed you, that you find exactly the same thing the far right lamented media doing. (Namely "lying about stuff".)

    During implementation of the new stuff. Just that now no one, not even Farage, is saying anything about it, knowing that its happening - because finally the other side has the power it wanted. And its time to bring the electorate together again, by showing them they were not horrible racist old people, no - they were just concerned citizens, that now - the new government will listen to and act with them in mind - except, that it doesnt.

    Media ecosystem or motivations didn't change at all - but now all of a sudden the right wingers are happy. With how an establishment lies to people.

    PR still is manipulation, you know?

    Now - wether it is needed or not (give people some kind of motive that makes them feel, that their latent racism has been efficiently appeased/adressed (we had to crack down on poor migrant minorities, who never were a problem, so british people get more social spending, IS a lie)) - you decide.
    -


    As for motivation - I'm saying - why does media not speak "truth to power", because its easier for them, and everyone involved, and most of the public doesnt even want to hear anything close to it. I don't think thats much of a conspiracy theory. Thats simply - life. :)

    Now that media is on every rightwingers good side again, because it reports a - created as we speak - hardliners myth, of a crackdown on migration, that really is medially created moreso, than it actually represents the outcomes of - now independent - UK policy making, everyone is strangely complacent, and on ok terms with it.

    Which I predicted would happen, by the way - so I have a horse in the race, when trying to show, that it will. (Nothing much will change in terms of the amounts of people who will migrate to the UK (economic driver), if anything their number will increase even midterm. (UK becoming more economically liberal under the new administration.))

    Also I don't want to be a fictionalized character that dies in his thirties, as you implied. (Basically stick your "Mr. Jones" up ya hat. ;) ) Thats you trying to win the argument ad hominem.
    -
     
    Last edited by notimp, Feb 20, 2020
  11. shamzie

    shamzie Oh David de Gea <3
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    A country has the right to set its own borders and it's own laws on anything it wants, not limited to immigration. If the UK said only aliens can come who speak English, well tough shit. Learn English if you want to move and live here. If you dont like those rules, don't try and come. It's crazy how simple I made it for you. No thanks necessary,
     
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  12. FGFlann

    FGFlann GBAtemp Fan
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    There is no argument to be had. You are not entering the discussion in good faith by making accusations without evidence, you are only looking for a fight. Crackpot theories about the racist boogeymen are just as useless as Alex Jones and his demons.

    TL;DR You are not bringing anything of value to thread with these bigoted diatribes.
     
  13. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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  14. shamzie

    shamzie Oh David de Gea <3
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    Sounds good to me, the whole point of Brexit was to get away from regulatory alignment with the EU, to make our own rules. Imagine starting a negotiation with " Keep paying into our coffers, we'll keep accessing your waters and you're not allowed to be competitive" You really need to get a grip, this is happening. The UK is open to a Canada style FTA (one that the EU said was possible) but that was when they thought they could stop the UK leaving.

    More good news today is the UK withdrawing from the European Arrest Warrant. They're issued by those whose justice systems are supposedly unimpeachable - so says the EU anyway. But under it we have seen decent honest people lifted from the streets of Britain and not offered anything like a fair trial.
     
  15. satel

    satel Luigi's Big Brother
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    you are 100% right & he was paid for his role in taking UK out of the EU. you think by you voting you decide anything!! it's already decided before you even voted.
     
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  16. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Shamzie, you are still stuck in in the fairytale version of the narration. And are now using jump logic.

    "Because we now want to show that we can make our own decisions" "lets provoke loose - loose outcomes, as far as game theory goes".

    The non fairy tale version goes something like this.

    US promised to prep up your economy - if you provoke a hard exit. Now you at least use that as part of "the art of making a deal". (You use it as leverage.) Still. Again. After you all celebrated, that 'its finally over' - for no reason whatsoever.

    But every ignorant person thinks their opinion also matters in politics a whole lot, I imagine?

    Would you want to share your logic for why you think, that this action in particular is 'good'? Because it represents the voters will to - what?


    Or are you just saying it - because you read, that I still worried about this being the potential outcome? To win your personal private parts measuring contest, over who wins Brexit? Both parties loose. And with hard brexit - their economies loose more.

    Hard brexit doesnt mean larger independence for your country.
    It means your country putting the fingers in their ears mid separation talks going 'la la la la' and walking out of the building.

    Brexit is the separation. Hard brexit is the uncontrolled version of that.

    If you havent even understood that so far, your contribution to this thread is hardly valid.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Feb 27, 2020
  17. shamzie

    shamzie Oh David de Gea <3
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    I love how you speak for the whole of the US and not their president, care to provide specific proof of where the US "promised to prop up the UK economy" if we leave on a true brexit, also feel free to provide their nuke codes as you obviously have inner circle access to the United States. Thanks.
     
  18. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Naive sales girl, manages to stay naive, even after having worked for Cambridge Analytica.



    Interesting/important personal accounts of how Cambridge Analytica interacted with both Brexit campaigns, as well as the Trump campaign early on.

    Naive in a sense, that whenever I see another person 'petitioning' delegates for 'own your data rights', I always burst out laughing.

    Its about changing defaults, which no one in industry or politics wants, and any system on top of that can't be deployed on an individual opt in basis, because of managerial overhead/legal costs. In even a two tiered customer structure.

    The point of "data as currency" is, that you give users exactly no actionable right (outside blanket regulations), so that they can not start suing you, which you as a company would not be able to withstand, because profits per user (depending on the service!) are so low, that you cant even give them a support phone call (who is stuffing all those call centers?), or your business model would break down. And more to the point, if even a small subset of users starts suing you - legal costs would drive you out of business, because userbases are so large.

    The entire thing is designed for the user to have no agency over data, or the business model is hard to imagine to keep working.

    And on top of that you are trying to fundamentally destroy the business of google and facebook. As a former sales person, who now set up a foundation. Being on the same information level (concept wise) as myself ten years ago.

    Hence, naive sales girl.

    (Talk me out of my mindset if you disagree.)
    --

    What the leave Brexit and Trump campaigns did is still outrageous btw. Don't want to detract from that. No naivity there from her. Its just that the role as this lighthouse figure that is now working to better her wrongdoings, to me seems to be not working structurally.

    (Which means everyone is still effed, btw.)
     
    Last edited by notimp, Mar 12, 2020
  19. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Oh great. This is her bright new future idea.

    Everyone participate in the shared data economy. License out your data to every possible source, if you are poor. Get dividends from that. That gets you universal basic income - once automation is rolled out, and you are out of your job.

    But the world still values you for your data!

    Yeah - thanks.

    I agree with her on almost everything else she says, except on the idea, that facebook or google could be just phased out by a switch to different intermediaries, let alone different services, that actually allow the user individual control over their data. (While google and facebook sit idle...)

    This is - "far less profitable" against "biggest databrokers in the world doing the same" market competition, on an audience (you) that doesnt at all understand what this is all about. With network effects stacked against you. I don't believe in this working. And again, if you have to force any individual interaction with a user thats anything more than a default - it comparatively (to anyone that isnt doing that) raises cost and legal risk by so much...

    And the main issue still is, that you have other person in the talk asking question, so someone would tell her how her phone works... So much for awareness..
     
    Last edited by notimp, Mar 12, 2020
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