Homebrew RELEASE Switch Homebrew Appstore

[Valery0p]

Thanks a lot guys =D this application will be a point of reference for the switch homebrew scene!
@vgmoose Maybe you should make an announcement post over reddit, seems that a lot of people are ignoring the existence of this and other people's homebrew!

 

[ShadowOne333]

Woohoo were live.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Would like to also thank @ShadowOne333 and @Masterwin for helping us maintain a current repo . Especially with the ups and downs of retroarch currently.

No need to thank, dude
In any way I can help, I'll do so and I'll rry to keep it up!

 

[PatrickJr]

That's super cool I honestly can't wait to be able to use HB on my switch [4.1.0 far off I know ]

 

[fenomeno0chris]

Is it possible to create a section within the store, where users have to pay for certain apps?
Im sure a lot of hoembews developers out there would really appreciate some donations for their work.
(Just like the Cydia store for iPhones)

 

[lordelan]

Is it possible to create a section within the store, where users have to pay for certain apps?
Im sure a lot of hoembews developers out there would really appreciate some donations for their work.
(Just like the Cydia store for iPhones)

Almost everything is on github, so ...
A donate button would be great though.

 

[reminon]

I'm loving the gui of the app vs the minimal text menu we had recently. Thank you for hosting this and keeping it updated.

 

[lordelan]

I'm loving the gui of the app vs the minimal text menu we had recently. Thank you for hosting this and keeping it updated.

+1
Used it to install ScummVM yesterday. Worked like a charm.

 

[hellrokr]

This looks brilliant.

 

[hudhair]

Anyone else stuck on the main loading screen? It doesn't load past the screen at all for me.

 

[Technicmaster0]

Anyone else stuck on the main loading screen? It doesn't load past the screen at all for me.

Do you block IP access (e.g. via router)? I had the same problem until I removed the blacklisted domains to block the update servers.

 

[hudhair]

Do you block IP access (e.g. via router)? I had the same problem until I removed the blacklisted domains to block the update servers.

Not blocking any domains at all iirc.

 

[Leonidas87]

How would a developer upload, add or link his or her app to the app store?

 

[Technicmaster0]

How would a developer upload, add or link his or her app to the app store?

One can PM the people that run it.
Ideally they should check the apps they have for updates on their own every once and a while, but that doesn't seem to work.

 

[vgmoose]

How would a developer upload, add or link his or her app to the app store?

One can PM the people that run it.
Ideally they should check the apps they have for updates on their own every once and a while, but that doesn't seem to work.

My reply to this got pretty long, but the short answer is just message us, or we will usually message you. I have a lot more to say about this though if anyone wants to read on.

TLDR: We're looking for more people to help maintain the app store (please PM @pwsincd or me if interested), and I'm working on a way for trusted developers to synchronize or deliver app updates automatically.


We used to just put any homebrew apps on ourselves without asking for permission first, but some developers and other members in the greater community saw this as shady and bad. Of course PM-ing us or posting here works fine if a dev is interested. In the Wii U scene people were always happy to see some homebrew progress, but things seem different with all the actors in the Switch scene.

As a result of feedback then, we've been trying to Do The Right Thing and ask for permission. I always feel like it's a bit awkward to do this though so I usually leave it to Pwsincd... He's been out of town for the last month though, so it's really put a bit of a damper on things. I recognize though that it's not fair to just leave it all to him, and also that this is creating a worse user experience for the actual app store users, but I'm not sure the best way to address it...

For instance, Checkpoint seems like a really great and intuitive app. The developer of it, however, when I approached asking for permission, has made clear that they do not want us re-hosting it out of fear that it will drift out of date on our servers. While this is ostensibly a valid concern, I think that the end result for most casual users is they will just install Checkpoint once manually, and never update it again. At least if it's on the app store, however, they can see that an update is available. I don't blame the developer for this, though, and I am working on changes to the way we check for updates that will satisfy them, to get permission to put Checkpoint on the store.

In addition to this, I've had big names in the scene tell me that I should delete the whole app store, that the whole concept of my app store is pointless, and that the app list on Switchbrew.org's wiki is "enough". I think there are many problems with using just a a wiki, namely as follows:
- no consistent versioning scheme across apps to keep track of updates
- no consistent way to unpack downloads directly on the switch
- external links may disappear at any time (try to download some old google code / megaupload links from wiibrew.org and see what I mean)
- any user could edit malicious software to be on there at any time
- subject to censorship from wiki admins

On the last bullet note, the app store was removed from the Switchbrew wiki recently, and without any comment. It's a special kind of demotivation seeing this type of thing happen. In the last year, I've put a lot of work into the app store homebrew client and the infrastructure behind it (all of which is completely free and open-source). It's visually appealing, the libraries and code are well organized, it informs the user of app updates, and has inertia scrolling. Censored from the Switchbrew wiki though, for reasons unknown... There's absolutely zero info on Switchbrew.org on the About page, the Privacy Policy, or the disclaimer page, so it's tough to know exactly why my app store client is not allowed.

The backend of the Switch homebrew app store (and in the future, for the Wii U as well) is a low-dependency package manager I wrote, called "get". There's a github wiki explaining how a get repo works, and why I made some of the decisions I made behind the infrastructure: https://github.com/vgmoose/get/wiki/Overview-&-Glossary

Currently a repo can be created manually, or by using a small Python script which updates the repo json and packages the files. As a result of this, we have to give direct server access to maintainers of the app store repo, and have to keep the circle of trust relatively small for who actually has permission to update the server. This then means that it's difficult for (basically just Pwsincd and me) to be able to check for new updates of every single homebrew that's on the store, especially since the scene does not move as slowly as the Wii U one. This is part of the reason why I'm interested in implementing a method of notifying us automatically when a github homebrew goes out of date.

So in the last week I have started a new project called "Barkeep" to help organize the server-side, easily allow more maintainers to be added, and allow developers to directly upload their apps or provide a link to a github release page that can be sync'd with the appstore CDN. I hope that when this work is done, many of these issues will be addressed, resulting in a better experience for both users and developers with regards to how users get and update homebrew. I also want to add integration with my NRO asset editor, to force icons/version numbers to be consistent with what's displayed in hbmenu. If anybody wants to work on this project, whether it's the server-side code, the web frontend, the client homebrew app, or just to volunteer to help us maintain it, please join the App Store's discord server, PM @pwsincd or me, or issue a pull request on one of the github project repos.


I didn't mean for this get rant-ish but I did want to provide some insight as to why apps have been added at a slower rate recently, and also address some of the "backlash" that has been levied against the homebrew app store. I personally think that some of the negative feedback surrounding the app store stems from a place of watered-down elitism-- For example, to some people manually copying over homebrew apps to an SD card and checking to keep them up to date yourself is no big deal, and those people might perceive others that are unable to do this as too inexperienced to be using homebrew in the first place.

There's another kind of user though, the kind that would just prefer to keep their SD card inserted into their switch at all times, and doesn't want to bother messing around with copying folders and checking frequently for updates. This "casual user" of homebrew is very often ignored, and may not be very vocal on GBAtemp, but we have the download stats even on the Wii U to prove that this kind of user definitely exists, and it's worth taking the time to cater to them to increase the overall popularity, spread, and usage of homebrew. For this reason, I believe that making comments like "No point in having an app store", or "the Wiki is good enough", or taking actions such as completely removing my app store from the Switchbrew wiki with no justification are the kind of infighting that can only stand to drive casual users away.

I have seen on several occasions, users that simply copy some app folders to the wrong spot, or are using some outdated code, and they are met with some downright hostile responses. There's no point in this type of demonization, and it should be everyone's overall goal to help as many people as possible run, access, and use homebrew. At the end of the day, without homebrew, Nintendo dictates what software is allowed to run on your device, which includes things like enabling them to force licensed developers to pay money to just allow their games and apps to run on the console, and also force users to use and deal with whatever licensed developers give them. (e.g. want to play as Zelda in BotW? too bad. Even though there are fan-people motivated enough to make it happen, you as the user are physically incapable of doing this on the stock Switch.)

In other words the point that I'm trying to make is, while running, accessing, and using homebrew can seem like something that's should only be for "experienced" technical-minded people, most BotW players of any age, are probably interested in novelty fan-things, such as game mods (like playing as Zelda).

Anyway... The final closing thing I have to say is of course that not all negative feedback is invalid-- constructive criticism about the update procedure, and how developers keep their apps updated on the store are valid technical issues that are worth solving, which I hope to do through updates to Barkeep and community volunteers. Flat out denying the use case of the idea of a place that makes homebrew downloading and updating easier, and even flat out removing my app from Switchbrew.org though, is a pretty low blow... :/

When I was younger, before I got into homebrew development, I used to like using the Homebrew Browser app on the Wii. It saved me a lot of time that would have otherwise been spent copying files and mindlessly ejecting/inserting my SD card into a PC, and ensuring homebrew was up to date and placed in the proper format. The Wii U and Switch homebrew app stores are built with this type of philosophy and ease of use in mind. I know about this use case because I experienced this use case.

 

[lordelan]

My reply to this got pretty long, but the short answer is just message us, or we will usually message you. I have a lot more to say about this though if anyone wants to read on.

TLDR: We're looking for more people to help maintain the app store (please PM @pwsincd or me if interested), and I'm working on a way for trusted developers to synchronize or deliver app updates automatically.


We used to just put any homebrew apps on ourselves without asking for permission first, but some developers and other members in the greater community saw this as shady and bad. Of course PM-ing us or posting here works fine if a dev is interested. In the Wii U scene people were always happy to see some homebrew progress, but things seem different with all the actors in the Switch scene.

As a result of feedback then, we've been trying to Do The Right Thing and ask for permission. I always feel like it's a bit awkward to do this though so I usually leave it to Pwsincd... He's been out of town for the last month though, so it's really put a bit of a damper on things. I recognize though that it's not fair to just leave it all to him, and also that this is creating a worse user experience for the actual app store users, but I'm not sure the best way to address it...

For instance, Checkpoint seems like a really great and intuitive app. The developer of it, however, when I approached asking for permission, has made clear that they do not want us re-hosting it out of fear that it will drift out of date on our servers. While this is ostensibly a valid concern, I think that the end result for most casual users is they will just install Checkpoint once manually, and never update it again. At least if it's on the app store, however, they can see that an update is available. I don't blame the developer for this, though, and I am working on changes to the way we check for updates that will satisfy them, to get permission to put Checkpoint on the store.

In addition to this, I've had big names in the scene tell me that I should delete the whole app store, that the whole concept of my app store is pointless, and that the app list on Switchbrew.org's wiki is "enough". I think there are many problems with using just a a wiki, namely as follows:
- no consistent versioning scheme across apps to keep track of updates
- no consistent way to unpack downloads directly on the switch
- external links may disappear at any time (try to download some old google code / megaupload links from wiibrew.org and see what I mean)
- any user could edit malicious software to be on there at any time
- subject to censorship from wiki admins

On the last bullet note, the app store was removed from the Switchbrew wiki recently, and without any comment. It's a special kind of demotivation seeing this type of thing happen. In the last year, I've put a lot of work into the app store homebrew client and the infrastructure behind it (all of which is completely free and open-source). It's visually appealing, the libraries and code are well organized, it informs the user of app updates, and has inertia scrolling. Censored from the Switchbrew wiki though, for reasons unknown... There's absolutely zero info on Switchbrew.org on the About page, the Privacy Policy, or the disclaimer page, so it's tough to know exactly why my app store client is not allowed.

The backend of the Switch homebrew app store (and in the future, for the Wii U as well) is a low-dependency package manager I wrote, called "get". There's a github wiki explaining how a get repo works, and why I made some of the decisions I made behind the infrastructure: https://github.com/vgmoose/get/wiki/Overview-&-Glossary

Currently a repo can be created manually, or by using a small Python script which updates the repo json and packages the files. As a result of this, we have to give direct server access to maintainers of the app store repo, and have to keep the circle of trust relatively small for who actually has permission to update the server. This then means that it's difficult for (basically just Pwsincd and me) to be able to check for new updates of every single homebrew that's on the store, especially since the scene does not move as slowly as the Wii U one. This is part of the reason why I'm interested in implementing a method of notifying us automatically when a github homebrew goes out of date.

So in the last week I have started a new project called "Barkeep" to help organize the server-side, easily allow more maintainers to be added, and allow developers to directly upload their apps or provide a link to a github release page that can be sync'd with the appstore CDN. I hope that when this work is done, many of these issues will be addressed, resulting in a better experience for both users and developers with regards to how users get and update homebrew. I also want to add integration with my NRO asset editor, to force icons/version numbers to be consistent with what's displayed in hbmenu. If anybody wants to work on this project, whether it's the server-side code, the web frontend, the client homebrew app, or just to volunteer to help us maintain it, please join the App Store's discord server, PM @pwsincd or me, or issue a pull request on one of the github project repos.


I didn't mean for this get rant-ish but I did want to provide some insight as to why apps have been added at a slower rate recently, and also address some of the "backlash" that has been levied against the homebrew app store. I personally think that some of the negative feedback surrounding the app store stems from a place of watered-down elitism-- For example, to some people manually copying over homebrew apps to an SD card and checking to keep them up to date yourself is no big deal, and those people might perceive others that are unable to do this as too inexperienced to be using homebrew in the first place.

There's another kind of user though, the kind that would just prefer to keep their SD card inserted into their switch at all times, and doesn't want to bother messing around with copying folders and checking frequently for updates. This "casual user" of homebrew is very often ignored, and may not be very vocal on GBAtemp, but we have the download stats even on the Wii U to prove that this kind of user definitely exists, and it's worth taking the time to cater to them to increase the overall popularity, spread, and usage of homebrew. For this reason, I believe that making comments like "No point in having an app store", or "the Wiki is good enough", or taking actions such as completely removing my app store from the Switchbrew wiki with no justification are the kind of infighting that can only stand to drive casual users away.

I have seen on several occasions, users that simply copy some app folders to the wrong spot, or are using some outdated code, and they are met with some downright hostile responses. There's no point in this type of demonization, and it should be everyone's overall goal to help as many people as possible run, access, and use homebrew. At the end of the day, without homebrew, Nintendo dictates what software is allowed to run on your device, which includes things like enabling them to force licensed developers to pay money to just allow their games and apps to run on the console, and also force users to use and deal with whatever licensed developers give them. (e.g. want to play as Zelda in BotW? too bad. Even though there are fan-people motivated enough to make it happen, you as the user are physically incapable of doing this on the stock Switch.)

In other words the point that I'm trying to make is, while running, accessing, and using homebrew can seem like something that's should only be for "experienced" technical-minded people, most BotW players of any age, are probably interested in novelty fan-things, such as game mods (like playing as Zelda).

Anyway... The final closing thing I have to say is of course that not all negative feedback is invalid-- constructive criticism about the update procedure, and how developers keep their apps updated on the store are valid technical issues that are worth solving, which I hope to do through updates to Barkeep and community volunteers. Flat out denying the use case of the idea of a place that makes homebrew downloading and updating easier, and even flat out removing my app from Switchbrew.org though, is a pretty low blow... :/

When I was younger, before I got into homebrew development, I used to like using the Homebrew Browser app on the Wii. It saved me a lot of time that would have otherwise been spent copying files and mindlessly ejecting/inserting my SD card into a PC, and ensuring homebrew was up to date and placed in the proper format. The Wii U and Switch homebrew app stores are built with this type of philosophy and ease of use in mind. I know about this use case because I experienced this use case.

That post warmed up my heart and made me a bit upset at the same time. I even put it in my signature.
Upset because I just don't get it at all why anyone would have anything to say against the idea of having a nice and user friendly app store.
I loved it on the Wii and Wii U. It saved me so much time. And I love it on the Switch. I'm "experienced" enough (lol) to place homebrews into the right folder on the SD card but that's totally not the point.
Whenever a new homebrew comes out that I really would like to use (like Prince of Persia which has been released recently) I always hope that it gets to the app store as quick as possible so I can download it from my couch without getting my lazy ass up, turn the Switch completely off (which by the way would force me to run the exploit again which sucks), put the micro SD card into a SD adapter, into a SD to USB adapter and into my PC just to drag the stuff over. Why would any "normal end user" do this if they can just fire up the app store?

And as you guessed my homebrews are rather up to date because you update them in your app store than because I check all github pages or gbatemp threads everyday to spot a homebrew update.

So please don't let anything get your motivation down. Try to achieve the update system you described and hopefully any dev will understand that it's the best way to distribute all updates to all users as often as possible.

 

[vgmoose]

That post warmed up my heart and made me a bit upset at the same time. I even put it in my signature.
Upset because I just don't get it at all why anyone would have anything to say against the idea of having a nice and user friendly app store.
I loved it on the Wii and Wii U. It saved me so much time. And I love it on the Switch. I'm "experienced" enough (lol) to place homebrews into the right folder on the SD card but that's totally not the point.
Whenever a new homebrew comes out that I really would like to use (like Prince of Persia which has been released recently) I always hope that it gets to the app store as quick as possible so I can download it from my couch without getting my lazy ass up, turn the Switch completely off (which by the way would force me to run the exploit again which sucks), put the micro SD card into a SD adapter, into a SD to USB adapter and into my PC just to drag the stuff over. Why would any "normal end user" do this if they can just fire up the app store?

And as you guessed my homebrews are rather up to date because you update them in your app store than because I check all github pages or gbatemp threads everyday to spot a homebrew update.

So please don't let anything get your motivation down. Try to achieve the update system you described and hopefully any dev will understand that it's the best way to distribute all updates to all users as often as possible.

Thanks, this response means a lot to me!

 

[hippy dave]

Keep doing what you're doing mate, don't let the negativity in the "scene" put you off. Plenty of people use and appreciate your app stores, including us tech literate people who are more than capable of copying files to an sd card, but prefer a more streamlined solution.

 

[Leonidas87]

The AppStore is an essential app.

Android has a store.

Iphone/ipad/mac have a store

Even Windows 10 and Linux if you get a specific version.


What would people do without steam for example.

The Homebrew Switch AppStore is exactly what we need. It helps save time going between many Github pages.

Its simple and works.

Needs some added categories and a few other beneficial additions but until then it does what it needs to.

@pwsincd I reached out to you in a PM be sure to get back to me when you have a chance and keep up the great work thanks for the AppStore and maintaining it this long.

 

[Mars_x]

-snip-

Seriously. Get rid of all your troubles, you owe nothing to anyone.
Discard all that mental stress induced from people that don't understand how extremely useful a user-friendly app like this is.
You are using your own valuable time (not even counting the time you already used to learn the skillset you have) to make it for us. For the average user.

The entire homebrew scene is based on a moral grey area, users break Nintendo's EULA by modding their systems in any way.
Including developers, everyone has to work within modified firmware. There's no morals in here, only people who like to lie to themselves.
The only rules you have to adhere to right now are the forum's, this is the internet and everything is for the taking.

You are not selling anything, you are giving proper credit, you have an idea (that you actually worked your ass off) that's only objectively good for the community.
What the hell do these naysayers want? Just add a disclaimer so that anyone who DOESN'T want their app on your front can send a message for it to be taken down.
It would be their loss, you are promoting these guys work, many apps I wouldn't even know they exist if it were not for apps like this.
Believe in yourself and believe in your intentions. I'm sure you'll find a way that works for you. And thank you very much for what you do, me and all kinds of people will use this extensively, just as we did on the Wii and Wii U!

 

[Leonidas87]

People will always try to knock you down for your accomplishments and success