Homebrew RetroArch - A new multi-system emulator

[Felipe_9595]

Read my post. If thecause is, in fact having an LCD display, then why on earth is the problem only noticeable with the classic controller? Neither the GC or the wiimote by itself present that behaviour.

Oh sorry, didnt read that part.

 

[sideskroll]

So you're getting 'absurdly high' input delay with a Classic Controller (non-Pro)? I definitely am not experiencing that. I do all my Wii testing on a Sony CRT TV from 1998 or so - so dunno if it's down to the display device or not.

I'd like to hear from more people first whether they're experiencing problems of this nature. It might be that we're not covering some specific quirk to do with input in libogc.

For the record - about 'Tantric's emus' - if this is the 'fix' you're referring to -

https://code.google.com/p/snes9x-gx/source/detail?r=718

then it's of absolutely no use to us since we never checked the return value of PAD_ScanPads to begin with - every frame input is sampled for all pads regardless of what it returns.

Yes, and with UNGODLY HIGH input delay I mean sometimes it doesn't even register the pads being pressed. (mind you, this also happens as soon as I launch HBC. Even the wiimote becomes jerky and kinda non responsive as long as the CC is connected.)
About the CRT Vs. LCD/PLASMA display argument, if it was the case wouldn't it make sense that ALL controllers were non responsive? maybe, MAYBE it has something to with the specific combination CC+HDTV.
At first I thought it had something to do with the fact that my CC is a third party one (madkatz, if it makes any difference) so then I tried using an original one with the same results.
I'm working now on a SNES>wii/GC adapter. It SHOULD work flawlessly (cause it's using the GC ports after all) At least I hope it does cause if not then its money down the drain.

*EDIT* Yes, that was the "fix" I was referring to. If you say its no good, then it isn't.

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

Yes, and with UNGODLY HIGH input delay I mean sometimes it doesn't even register the pads being pressed. (mind you, this also happens as soon as I launch HBC. Even the wiimote becomes jerky and kinda non responsive as long as the CC is connected.)
About the CRT Vs. LCD/PLASMA display argument, if it was the case wouldn't it make sense that ALL controllers were non responsive? maybe, MAYBE it has something to with the specific combination CC+HDTV.
At first I thought it had something to do with the fact that my CC is a third party one (madkatz, if it makes any difference) so then I tried using an original one with the same results.
I'm working now on a SNES>wii/GC adapter. It SHOULD work flawlessly (cause it's using the GC ports after all) At least I hope it does cause if not then its money down the drain.

I'm going to take another look at the input driver together with ToadKing.

 

[sideskroll]

I'm going to take another look at the input driver together with ToadKing.

Thank you.
And like I said, that behavior isn't even your emulators fault. Cause the problems begin as soon as I launch the Homebrew Channel, but maybe with that in my mind you could find an explanation for that. (and then we could troll the devs at HBC for a fix ) or at least a "fix" for that behavior while using the emulator.

One more question, is there a way to play with 2 GC controllers? So far I haven't been able to do it, and even if I manage to make the GC controller the 1st player, the wiimote/CC second player can't move. Is it necessary for the CC controlled player to be 1st player? Also, is there a way to launch the HBC with a GC controller? I can navigate through the emus and homebrew apps with it, but can't for the life of me figure a way to launch the channel without a wiimote. (probably its just the way it is...)

 

[AngryGeek416]

anyone else have to change it to classic controller config everytime you load a rom? im using a classic controller pro by the way official

 

[Disorarara]

Thank you.
And like I said, that behavior isn't even your emulators fault. Cause the problems begin as soon as I launch the Homebrew Channel, but maybe with that in my mind you could find an explanation for that. (and then we could troll the devs at HBC for a fix ) or at least a "fix" for that behavior while using the emulator.

One more question, is there a way to play with 2 GC controllers? So far I haven't been able to do it, and even if I manage to make the GC controller the 1st player, the wiimote/CC second player can't move. Is it necessary for the CC controlled player to be 1st player? Also, is there a way to launch the HBC with a GC controller? I can navigate through the emus and homebrew apps with it, but can't for the life of me figure a way to launch the channel without a wiimote. (probably its just the way it is...)

You have to go to the individual controller settings in RetroArch and set which controller you're using. Second player is probably set to use a CC. Also if you have Bootmii installed through MINI you can run the Homebrew channel directly and skip the Wii menu every time you start up.

 

[sideskroll]

You have to go to the individual controller settings in RetroArch and set which controller you're using. Second player is probably set to use a CC. Also if you have Bootmii installed through MINI you can run the Homebrew channel directly and skip the Wii menu every time you start up.

I did that, but the wiimote/CC keeps syncing as 1st player.

 

[Disorarara]

I did that, but the wiimote/CC keeps syncing as 1st player.

It does but the controller settings themselves don't change. If player one and player two are set to use the gamecube controller that's how they're going to work regardless of what actual controllers are present. I noticed this because I frequently switch around controllers and have to change the settings manually each time I do this.

 

[sideskroll]

It does but the controller settings themselves don't change. If player one and player two are set to use the gamecube controller that's how they're going to work regardless of what actual controllers are present. I noticed this because I frequently switch around controllers and have to change the settings manually each time I do this.

I think we're not in the same page. I´m trying to have the wiimote as second player. Whenever I set itlike that the only controller that works is the GC (1st player) one.

 

[Disorarara]

I think we're not in the same page. I´m trying to have the wiimote as second player. Whenever I set itlike that the only controller that works is the GC (1st player) one.

Well either way the controller settings are static. I'm not sure which controllers take priority over the others, but couldn't you just plug in the GC controller into slot 2?

So I just tested this, I guess Wii remotes definitely take priority over GameCube controllers

 

[Dogway]

here are all the input lag reports:
Dogway
tankberg #2
kypiyo #2 #3
sideskroll

LibreRetroArch response

4 random guys bothering to report a perceived issue in 3 months span. They all describe the same, input lag with CC or CC Pro, whatever the type of TV is. And the expected performance on other controllers.

How many more people do you need to care about it? If all that happens is that you don't own a CC, then that's ok, just tell (won't fix), but don't assume 4 people bother themselves to come around and report without doing their homework (tests, etc).

More likely more people haven't come to report yet, because they either don't post or don't have an account, are not aware of retroarch or don't use it/care, don't have a CC, don't play reaction demanding games, or when playing them they don't realize/care.

That's how I see it, until someone (with influence on LibreRetroArch) committed to it cares to test the thing out on a game that is known to show clearer this input lag.

 

[Rydian]

How many more people do you need to care about it? If all that happens is that you don't own a CC, then that's ok, just tell

I don't have a Classic Controller Pro so I'm not in an ability to test and/or do experiments with it. Perhaps ToadKing does.

That's how I see it, until someone (with influence on LibreRetroArch) committed to it cares to test the thing out on a game that is known to show clearer this input lag.

I'm going to take another look at the input driver together with ToadKing.

Those two posts being on the previous page and the one you posted on...

 

[mightymuffy]

So you're getting 'absurdly high' input delay with a Classic Controller (non-Pro)? I definitely am not experiencing that. I do all my Wii testing on a Sony CRT TV from 1998 or so - so dunno if it's down to the display device or not.

I'd like to hear from more people first whether they're experiencing problems of this nature. It might be that we're not covering some specific quirk to do with input in libogc.

Playing RA on 2 different Wii's, one hooked up to a 26" Toshiba LCD, another up to a Samsung 40" LED, tried both using both a CC and a CC Pro - no discernible input delay here, certainly no 'absurdly high' one.....

 

[Dogway]

Those two posts being on the previous page and the one you posted on...

And hence the reason I included those statements... :S
are you offtrack too? I've been posting here the last 2 days.
Ok, let me help you:

I'd like to hear from more people first whether they're experiencing problems of this nature. It might be that we're not covering some specific quirk to do with input in libogc.

using both a CC and a CC Pro - no discernible input delay here, certainly no 'absurdly high' one.....

as far as I understand both show input lag, so you are not going to find discrepancies between those too, compare to a GC controller for that matter.

 

[Rydian]

The wording of your posts is as if you didn't see those, what with the lack of past tense and all.

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

That's how I see it, until someone (with influence on LibreRetroArch) committed to it cares to test the thing out on a game that is known to show clearer this input lag.

Let's make this thing perfectly clear - I don't need 'testers' so much, I need people who know how to code and contribute, and people who are willing to put up some raw numbers and measurements derived from their 'tests' instead of just saying 'I feel input lag' (that's as close to useless to me as somebody saying 'I can feel the force').. Nobody can have any influence on me (Squarepusher) because I don't take (monetary) donations and so I am under no obligations to get anything done for you or anyone else. If something gets done, it's entirely out of my own accord and because I feel like doing it.

For the record, my own take on this issue is - I have a Classic Controller myself and I never experienced much of a problem. That being said, I will look into trying to improve the input driver but I honestly don't see how it's going to greatly matter.

Only way you can expect a clear improvement to happen straight away is for some libogc dev to step forward and tell us what we're doing wrong (that is, IF we're doing anything wrong).

[quote='"Dogway"]
How many more people do you need to care about it? If all that happens is that you don't own a CC, then that's ok, just tell (won't fix), but don't assume 4 people bother themselves to come around and report without doing their homework (tests, etc).[/quote]

You expect me to take everyone at his word that it's the fault of my/our pogram when it's almost certain that your particular brand of HDTV / wireless controller has a 90/80% impact on the severity of 'input lag'? This is why the modern HDTV era sucks - the TV manufacturers don't care the slightest about this issue, the public is so infatuated and in love with these TVs that they keep buying it, and then developers will have to deal with a lot of bitching about 'input lag', blablabla.

How many more people I need to care about it?

People who can do an ABX test. Look it up on Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABX_test

Time to do something that resembles some 'real' science instead of gut feelings - 'oh I feel something is wrong'. I need measurements.

I'm sorry but your hostile response just rubs me the wrong way and it annoys me even more because all of those 'reports' you linked to are all just of the type 'oh I feel input lag' - just saying 'there is input lag' is not helpful in any way or shape at all - I need something quantifiable, not 'gut feelings'.

 

[quepaso]

I have no input lag in RA for wii, and i use CC Pros and also TVC Arcade Sticks. All of them are original and not fake ones from ebay. That might be the difference people are seeing. Whoever is having this lag, make sure your controller is store bought and oem equipment.

 

[Dogway]

Then make up your mind because here you welcome bug report:
Contradiction #1
Contradiction #2
Contradiction #3

If I knew coding I'd have helped, although haven't you realized we are in a no coding specialized forum? you would have more luck with that on sourceforge or google code.

Let me put it in words, I am (Dogway) the developer of the named script SMDegrain(), ok? if one member comes to my thread to report a possible bug, I can wonder it must be his mistake. If 4 people report the same mistake, I surely can feel THE FORCE ^^ I'm being obliged to bother and revise code myself. Maybe you are special and can easily ignore the next 4 guys complaining about the same issue in the next 3 months, who knows!

My concern is not on fixing the issue, but addressing the issue, being aware of it. Because many people is experiencing it, maybe you haven't because you don't play high pacing games where one frame time matters. I couldn't really tell until I compared against a GC controller.

"How many more people I need to care about it?
People who can do an ABX test"

That's not what you said in my quoted post, you are just adding that for the sake of excusing.

And please don't start to blame the same bullshit about HDTVs, brands and so on.
Just for once give credit to the users who bother themselves on tests, start listening/reading them and stop acting as the mister know-it-all.

And about the "gut feeling" excuse, let me tell you a story; do you know the forum hydrogenaudio? no? it's a technical audio forum, there among other things codec quality tests are performed. Recently I was myself researching about mp3 vs wma audio quality, please let me add the link
How good is that?! Bear in mind that you can also participate! yes, you Squarepusher, can also test audio codec quality based solely on "gut feelings", or as you call it THE FORCE ; )

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

My concern is not on fixing the issue, but addressing the issue, being aware of it. Because many people is experiencing it, maybe you haven't because you don't play high pacing games where one frame time matters. I couldn't really tell until I compared against a GC controller.

*rolls eyes *

rest of your post - something about me bullshitting and me contradicting myself...

Dude, if you think your nasty attitude towards me is going to make me want to look into this any further, then you really need your head examined. I do this for free remember? I don't do this for money and I don't owe you jack shit - so you can be annoyed as much as you want, but I am under no obligation to 'fix' anything for you - especially when it's an 'issue' I can't even reproduce.

And once again you have produced nothing, no measurements, no nothing - not even an estimate of how many 'frames' you 'perceive' it's lagging - what TV you have - what resolution and display mode this is happening on - nothing. You bring nothing to the table == I can't do jack about it. It's very simple.

But you sure like to keep up this 'personal vendetta' thing now don't you? Seriously dude - get the hell out with that crap - I don't give a damn about your little 'issues' with me -if you can't keep this to the point without resorting to 'oh you contradict yourself - oh you spout bullshit' then here's a suggestion to you - just stop using it then if my presence and the lag infuriates you so much.

 

[mightymuffy]

as far as I understand both show input lag, so you are not going to find discrepancies between those too, compare to a GC controller for that matter.

Gawd mon, surely I don't need to whap up 1000 words detailing precisely how I've tested for input lag "I also tested it whilst hungover, whilst scratching my bollocks, etc etc etc...", not exactly stupid enough to try out JUST the classics then report on here! ...if a game only requires the Wiimote (NES for example) I'll play on that anyway - like quepaso above I see no lag with whatever I use, and like quepaso says, maybe you're using cheapo nasty 3rd party products??