Race, Ethnicity, and Nationality? Your thoughts?

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by blujay, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. blujay
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    blujay GBATemp's Official Warthog

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    Now, before we get started, I want to make sure that everybody is aware of what this thread is about. First of all, all of these topics are important to individual people, and it may be an uncomfortable topic. I will do my best to refrain from any remarks will make others feel uncomfortable. If you feel that you might not like this topic, I would invite you to leave for your own sake, as this is the temp we are talking about. Second, I don't want this turning into a political debate. In the world as we know it today, these issues are huge, so they have a spot in this forum, but I want you to express your views and not bash political parties.

    So, now that that is over with, let us continue.

    First of all, let's start with the most obvious one. Nationality.
    An individual's nationality is tied directly to the country of which they are a legal resident. If Derrek is living in the United States, and is a citizen, he is American. If Johnny is living in the United States, but is a citizen of Canada and not the United States, he is Canadian. Nationality has nothing to do with your own mindset, because it is completely a legal issue.​

    Next up: Race.
    Race is a tricky one (as I am sure most of us reading this have already figured out in our everyday lives). Race is based on one's perception of another, and from there they get placed into groups. The most common race terms are "White" and "Black" referring to the color of the skin. Race is not something changeable by the person that belongs to the race. They will most always belong to that race. Race is what the majority of segregated regulations are based off of, because it is based primarily off of physical characteristics.​

    Next up: Ethnicity.
    Ethnicity is the most difficult one to explain. An individual's ethnicity is completely decided upon by the individual. Ethnicity is the social construct used to identify people who fall in line with the practices of a specific culture. Terms like "African-American", "Hispanic", and "Asian-American" are commonly used. Ethnicity (like stated earlier) can be changed by the person identifying themselves. Unlike race, ethnicity is not based off of physical characteristics.

    An example:
    Now that all of that information has been said, you still might be confused as to what I mean.

    Jimmy is the name of the example:
    Nationality: Canadian
    Race: White
    Ethnicity: African-Canadian
    Jimmy's mother was a white, South African who was in support of removing the apartheid in South Africa. She ended up migrating to Canada, where she met her husband. Then they settled down and had Jimmy. When Jimmy was growing up, his father taught him French (or Canadian-French, I don't know the difference) which he used frequently to communicate with his friends. However, he frequently traveled down to South Africa to meet up with his relatives, and hence gained a sense of their culture.
    Now a man, Jimmy's current attitude and methods of life are based on both his race (White) and how that leads him down different paths, but also the teachings he received from his maternal relatives as well as fraternal relatives, so he is racially identified as White, but self-identifies as African-Canadian.
    What are your thoughts? Do you believe that race and ethnicity are one in the same, or do you believe that they draw a fine line?

    Side Note: With the above notes listed, I would like to express that I believe that calling somebody Black or White is not politically incorrect when referring to their race, and that calling them African-American or Caucasian-American are politically incorrect when referring to their race. Just puts a spin on perspective.
     
  2. VinsCool

    VinsCool Absconditus

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    Well, there are difference between each of them, from what I could understand.

    Race defines a persons origin. Mostly a group of individual, mostly the skin colours or physical traits.
    Nationality, as you said, defines where a person lives. I could have black skin, live in Canada, and just be Canadian.
    Ethnicity however is a bit more diffuse. My personal understanding over this one is a mix of the 2 first elements. I often think that Ethnicity and Race could be synonyms at this point.

    For most of this I'd agree with you, since it does make sense to me.

    If I were to give my personal thought on this, I'd just ditch Race and Ethnicity altogether, since most of times, only Nationality is taken in consideration, despite the skin colour, native language or some of the cultural traits a person may have.
    I could make bad assumptions there, but I think that would make more sense this way.
     
    Last edited by VinsCool, Jan 13, 2018
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  3. blujay
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    blujay GBATemp's Official Warthog

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    My major problem with Race/Ethnicity is that it divides us so that all we see are the differences between us.
     
  4. Memoir

    Memoir FTS I'm Out

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    At the end of the day, we all bleed red. Of course, we as a race (humanity) tend to fear things that are different or that we don't understand.
     
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  5. VinsCool

    VinsCool Absconditus

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    That's more or less my issue as well.
    I'd rather think of people for their nationality, simply.
    Racial arguments only created conflicts over time, because some people sure love to spot the differences and use them against someone when they want to disagree with them.
     
  6. blujay
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    blujay GBATemp's Official Warthog

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    I was watching a speedrunner once who said the natural instinct of man since the caveman day has been to divide and discriminate others. If we could just get past that, we would become the best we've ever been.
     
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  7. VinsCool

    VinsCool Absconditus

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    Mankind has been what we know for millenniums, it's pretty hard to change what is engraved very deeply, I guess.
     
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  8. HamBone41801

    HamBone41801 K35

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    as for that last bit about terminology, that's purely a cultural thing. For instance, in places like Guyana, negro is the preferred term, not black.
     
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  9. B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N

    B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N オンライン翻訳者が悪い

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    Speaking as someone who, racially, is part-Filipino, part-Italian, part-Scottish, and part-German, I can assure you that I don't give two flying fucks about my race, and really only think of it when it's relevant to the conversation.

    In America, there really is no racial profile for being American. I, honestly, think this is a good thing. America was, and should be, a place where people from around the world, the rejected and the struggling, can go to and erk out a living for themselves. People shouldn't have to care about whether you're an Englishman, or Dutch, or Chinese, or Korean, or what have you. This isn't always the case in the USA, unfortunately, but it's a nice ideal to work towards.

    I hope I'm not going to start another fight about Trump on here by saying this, but this is what our president doesn't understand. People don't come here from places like Norway, which are already doing fine. They're coming from places like Haiti and the Middle East. They come from places that are, either financially or in terms of general quality of life, "shitholes." That's why they come here in the first place: to seek a better life. Back in the 1800s, all of the people emigrating from various European countries (and a few non-European countries like China) were doing so because said countries were "shitholes." Why would they move to another country in the first place otherwise?

    Humans are inherently discriminating creatures, and, in the search for identity, look for something to simultaneously differentiate themselves from others as well as associate themselves with a group. I imagine I'm going to get some shit for saying this, but on my time on the internet, I've seen people from other countries say pretty disparaging and ignorant things about Americans, all Americans, without stopping to consider either the sub-groups of Americans or each American as an individual. That's not to say that Americans themselves are innocent of racism, far from it, but they're hardly the only ones guilty of carrying it out.

    Ideally, we should all be able to sit, chat, enjoy ourselves, or even work together without having to even stop to consider one's race, ethnicity, or national affiliations. We're all humans, in the end. We're all aware of inherently human concepts like love, hate, pain, joy, etc. People should stop acting like they're better than others because of an association.
     
  10. 330

    330 Banned

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    I feel like nationality should be given after proven to deserving it rather than a right. Everyone (not only immigrants) should take a Citizenship test after they turn 18. It's important to speak your own language correctly and to know the history of your own country to avoid making the same mistakes. I'm not saying that a person born in the USA that has failed the citizenship test should be deported somewhere else, but they shouldn't have all the rights of a citizen either.
    This could help people understand voting as well. If you want to invest money, for example, all the banks worldwide make you do a simple test to see if you're a fitting candidate to let you buy shares and bonds. If you don't pass the test, they won't let you. Having everyone work hard for their citizenship would make voting better, in my opinion.

    I won't discuss race and ethnicity, as I find extremely stupid to call a black person "colored" and somehow owe something to a whole community just because I'm white and they're black.
     
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  11. Cylent1

    Cylent1 Community Smart Ass!

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    There is no such thing!
    Its all part of the greed, and control that they put you into like groups to control us compartmentalized to make the transition smoother for the NWO that will never happen..
    Racism is what you the individual makes of it, Also Racism is taught, not learned if anybody needs a refresher!

    These are just my 2 cents...
     
  12. Viri

    Viri GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Hah, we have people who claim voter IDs are somehow racist, there is no way that would ever get passed.
     
  13. xpoverzion

    xpoverzion GBAtemp Regular

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    There are only two kinds of people in the world that really matter at the end of the day. Jews, and Non-Jews. If you don't get that, then you have no clue how the world really works.
     
  14. Noctosphere

    Noctosphere Adoptive father of my kitty named Zelda

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    Far away from my kitty named Zelda :'(
    some people in quebec dont like the word "race" to define peoples
    but in fact, it's the right word
    it's the same with dogs
    you guys use the word breed for dogs, but in french, we use the same word for people and animals, races
    dogs all have the same basics specificity that defines them as dogs
    but they also have some differences between them that makes them proper to a race/breed

    It's the same with us human,
    We all have specificity in common (2 legs, 2 arm, 2 hand 2 feet, a head, hairs at specific places, we all have the same digestive, neural and muscular system, etc) but we also have difference between all human, which are race/breed (color of skin, shape of the body, shape of mouth, color of eyes/hair, etc)
     
  15. HamBone41801

    HamBone41801 K35

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    I want you to say "Racism is taught, not learned" out loud. Slowly.
     
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  16. gameboy

    gameboy GBAtemp Maniac

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    ....white people...
     
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  17. HamBone41801

    HamBone41801 K35

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    I know right. *He says, knowing that he is, in fact, the whitest son-of-a-bitch in existence*
     
  18. Whole lotta love

    Whole lotta love Advanced Member

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    Race is a social construct use to categorize humans based on phenotypical, ancestral, social, and cultural characteristics.

    For example, the White race as a concept originates in the 17th century, which was created as a means of social control. It was quickly picked up and spread by other European immigrants (namely Irish and Italian) to help relieve persecution as they were not considered white and faced similar racial discrimination as black people.

    Germans, Italians, Portuguese, Greeks, and many other European people were not considered white until the 20th century.

    Here is Ben Franklin saying that only the Saxons were white:
    Today, light skinned Cubans and other Hispanic people who would previously be considered second or third class citizens pass and identify as white without trouble.

    Race is a social construct that changes with as the society changes. There is biomarker for race.
     
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  19. Nightwish

    Nightwish GBAtemp Fan

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    Dictatorships have used the stripping of nationality to deprive dissidents of any rights, including leaving the country, and there is no way to do it without opening it to abuse. Would believing in socialism and MMT label me as an undesirable? Nationality is a fundamental human right defended by the UN for good reasons.

    We all saw that coming, didn't we? Not even replying...


    As to the topic, those are things that define where you come from, not what you are, especially after 18 years living and breathing. They help you connect with others and their issues, but there's nothing special about it. Maybe with race and sex, but there's no good that can come from finding it out, and it all changes quickly as we interbreed.

    I'll leave this here.
     
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  20. Whole lotta love

    Whole lotta love Advanced Member

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    Dog breeds can be identified genetically.

    Can you identify the race of a human based on their DNA?
     
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