Hacking Question about ID checks with 3DS and New Leaf save files

[chartube12]

I have to agree with him having some other issue. Sounds to me like he transferred a digital copy of new leaf to a different 3ds and now his save from the first 3ds is invalid on the 2nd 3ds. I thought this was covered nearly 2 years ago. I thought all digital retail games' saves are locked to the 3ds they were played on. So if you transfer to a new 3ds, you have to start all your digital retail games and VC titles over from the beginning. In other words, working as Nintendo intended.

 

[Icehawk78]

I actually tested this, though my experience was with a digital copy of AC:NL from the eShop. The following scenarios were tested:

1. Save AC:NL on SD Card A. Remove from 3DS, copy the entire card contents onto SD Card B. Put SD Card B into 3DS, and attempt to load game/save.

Result: Success! All eShop games and save files are properly trasferred. Both SD Cards have different capacities, manufacturers, etc. (One is technically an SD Card adapter for a MicroSD Card, and the other is an actual SD Card.)

2. On SD Card B, load AC:NL, and immediately save the game, after loading. Swap out, put in SD Card A, and attempt to load game/save.

Result: eShop version of AC:NL loads, however, it shows a message saying "You've saved more recently than the data on here, delete data or cancel?"

3. Cancel out of that dialogue, put SD Card A back in, load game.

Result: Game and save load with no issue.

4. Take *both* SD Cards out and digitally compare their contents.

Result: The .sav file is the *only* difference on the SD Cards, indicating that the "what was the last save ID/hash/checksum?" is most likely being stored somewhere on the 3DS itself, at least for the eShop version.


Any other recommended tests?

 

[Friendsxix]

*SNIP*

I suppose that would mean there is a checksum scheme going on, but only for the eShop version of the game, and not the retail cartridge. I'd imagine this is due to Nintendo believing that their protection on the save chips against the R4i save dongle would be adequate, and it wouldn't be worth implementing the checksum scheme as it would cause problems if the user tried to play his or her game on a different 3DS. (They obviously wouldn't have to worry about this for a digital copy.)

Which means that the definitive version of this game is... wait for it... wait for it...!

Spoiler

The Physical Retail Cartridge

 

[Rizsparky]

I actually tested this, though my experience was with a digital copy of AC:NL from the eShop. The following scenarios were tested:

1. Save AC:NL on SD Card A. Remove from 3DS, copy the entire card contents onto SD Card B. Put SD Card B into 3DS, and attempt to load game/save.

Result: Success! All eShop games and save files are properly trasferred. Both SD Cards have different capacities, manufacturers, etc. (One is technically an SD Card adapter for a MicroSD Card, and the other is an actual SD Card.)

2. On SD Card B, load AC:NL, and immediately save the game, after loading. Swap out, put in SD Card A, and attempt to load game/save.

Result: eShop version of AC:NL loads, however, it shows a message saying "You've saved more recently than the data on here, delete data or cancel?"

3. Cancel out of that dialogue, put SD Card A back in, load game.

Result: Game and save load with no issue.

4. Take *both* SD Cards out and digitally compare their contents.

Result: The .sav file is the *only* difference on the SD Cards, indicating that the "what was the last save ID/hash/checksum?" is most likely being stored somewhere on the 3DS itself, at least for the eShop version.


Any other recommended tests?

Thanks for this, cleared stuff up

 

[Icehawk78]

I suppose that would mean there is a checksum scheme going on, but only for the eShop version of the game, and not the retail cartridge. I'd imagine this is due to Nintendo believing that their protection on the save chips against the R4i save dongle would be adequate, and it wouldn't be worth implementing the checksum scheme as it would cause problems if the user tried to play his or her game on a different 3DS. (They obviously wouldn't have to worry about this for a digital copy.)

Are you sure? Obviously, I don't have a hardware card to compare with, but I didn't see anywhere that someone with the save dongle thing tested all of the scenarios (same save file duplicated, new save overwritten by old save, and old save overwritten again by new save) that I did. I would actually be fairly surprised if Nintendo utilized a different save file protection scheme between versions - it would create more work for them to essentially have two versions of the save code, regardless of which system they developed first.

It's possible that what you described was the case, but seems highly unlikely. More likely is that both versions are recording a save hash somewhere to the 3DS, and if you attempted to do what I did with a physical cartridge, you'd get the same results.

 

[Friendsxix]

Are you sure? Obviously, I don't have a hardware card to compare with, but I didn't see anywhere that someone with the save dongle thing tested all of the scenarios (same save file duplicated, new save overwritten by old save, and old save overwritten again by new save) that I did. I would actually be fairly surprised if Nintendo utilized a different save file protection scheme between versions - it would create more work for them to essentially have two versions of the save code, regardless of which system they developed first.

It's possible that what you described was the case, but seems highly unlikely. More likely is that both versions are recording a save hash somewhere to the 3DS, and if you attempted to do what I did with a physical cartridge, you'd get the same results.

Please read my previous posts in this thread, where I tested my cartridge save in a completely different 3DS with a blank SD card. The save was recognized, and the system didn't complain about loading or saving the game. So yes, I'm fairly certain the cartridge game has a different save protection scheme in play.

 

[Phyzoon]

Are you sure? Obviously, I don't have a hardware card to compare with, but I didn't see anywhere that someone with the save dongle thing tested all of the scenarios (same save file duplicated, new save overwritten by old save, and old save overwritten again by new save) that I did. I would actually be fairly surprised if Nintendo utilized a different save file protection scheme between versions - it would create more work for them to essentially have two versions of the save code, regardless of which system they developed first.

It's possible that what you described was the case, but seems highly unlikely. More likely is that both versions are recording a save hash somewhere to the 3DS, and if you attempted to do what I did with a physical cartridge, you'd get the same results.

But if you are saving data somewhere else, how are you able to keep playing your save with your cartdrige on a completely different 3DS?

 

[Icehawk78]

My assumption would be that the "save hash" is being stored on the game cartridge, rather than the system, in that case. That doesn't mean that it isn't being done, or that it will allow you to use different saves on the same cartridge, though. That's primarily what I was referring to.

 

[josiascaignard]

I could be wrong but if I bught he digital copy, and put an SD card, say "SDcard A" download the game, start a game, make a town, then swap the SD card with "SDcard B" download again the game, start another game, another town. Then I could have 2 towns? because it saves in the SD, and if the game is in the SDcard and I change the whole thing, is like changing a cartridge and the SD card. I don't know if it is well explained :S but I think this could work for people with multiple users for one 3DS

EDIT: This doesn't work, it was proposed before, sorry

 

[Icehawk78]

I could be wrong but if I bught he digital copy, and put an SD card, say "SDcard A" download the game, start a game, make a town, then swap the SD card with "SDcard B" download again the game, start another game, another town. Then I could have 2 towns? because it saves in the SD, and if the game is in the SDcard and I change the whole thing, is like changing a cartridge and the SD card. I don't know if it is well explained :S but I think this could work for people with multiple users for one 3DS

Please see my above response. This does not work, I already tested that exact scenario.

 

[josiascaignard]

Please see my above response. This does not work, I already tested that exact scenario.

Sorry, I Saw it before I posted, my bad

 

[caitsith2]

The latest firmware update adds in backing up of saves of downloaded 3ds titles. Wonder if that can be used to allow for more than one town to exist on the download version of the game, by using save backup/restore functions.

 

[cearp]

so can i or can i not use an r4i save dongle to back up my animal crossing save from my cart, and make restore them, effectively having multiple towns?

 

[Eerpow]

so can i or can i not use an r4i save dongle to back up my animal crossing save from my cart, and make restore them, effectively having multiple towns?

Of course not, the ID matching system is something that happens with the 3DS internally. Almost everything released past 3D land corrupts with the save dongle anyway as they use a different encryption.

You can still however have two towns by owning *two SD cards.

1. Download and play ACNL normally on SD card1, both game and save will be stored on it.
2. Insert SD card2, redownload the game and start a second town.

*This can be done with only one SD but you have to delete and copy the right game/save files each time you want to play a different town which is just a hassle.

(for noobs out there, no you can't duplicate stuff. This is just keeping two or more towns on separate SD cards each with their own generated save IDs)

 

[cearp]

of course not? ha ok..
oh i thought the encryption part of the save was not to do with backing up and restoring, i thought that was just for like, decrypting the save, and that nintendo made it harder to decrypt.
but if the save file needs to be decrypted to simply dump the save, then sure, ok.

and oh that is nice that with different sd cards you can have different saves, although that only works with the download version right?
and not with the limited edition 3ds that has animal crossing on it, since that is not stored on the sd card, it in stored actually in the console?

 

[chomp]

Of course not, the ID matching system is something that happens with the 3DS internally. Almost everything released past 3D land corrupts with the save dongle anyway as they use a different encryption.

You can still however have two towns by owning *two SD cards.

1. Download and play ACNL normally on SD card1, both game and save will be stored on it.
2. Insert SD card2, redownload the game and start a second town.

*This can be done with only one SD but you have to delete and copy the right game/save files each time you want to play a different town which is just a hassle.

(for noobs out there, no you can't duplicate stuff. This is just keeping two or more towns on separate SD cards each with their own generated save IDs)

I thought it was just confirmed above that this didn't work?

 

[Eerpow]

I thought it was just confirmed above that this didn't work?

This does work, both downloaded games have their own saves and ID's they associate with, separately. You have to download the game two times for this to work, there are people who have done this.
What's other have posted is just speculation.

 

[TheBroCode]

So to have different saves on different SD Cards I just need to:

1. Download a digital copy on Card A
2. Swap for Card B and download digital copy again

Then depending on what SD Card you have inserted you'll be playing a different save (and won't run into that error), as long as you use the same 3DS?

 

[De0hc]

For people that didn't find it themselves: https://www.reddit.com/r/AnimalCros..._cannot_use_save_data_because_it_was_not_the/