Quality School for Languages

[mthrnite]

Dag, amazing what a little spambot can do...
.. all it wanted was for you to click it's links.

Let's keep it cool in here guys.. your watchword is "respect."

Oh, a sleeping drunkard
Up in Central Park,
And a lion-hunter
In the jungle dark,
And a Chinese dentist,
And a British queen--
All fit together
In the same machine.
Nice, nice, very nice;
Nice, nice, very nice;
Nice, nice, very nice--
So many different people
In the same device.

Bokonon from The Fifty-third Calypso

 

[moshii]

/me wonders who pissed on your fireworks...

"you're too young" part because it's worth no answer.

Seriously, once you've done uni etc you'll have a totally different outlook on things. You see there isn't time to go doing everything you might deem valuable. It's sad but true mate. Fair enough learning more Spanish would be useful *while* I'm here, but the fact is it's more sensible to learn things I need in my place of work to remain useful and thus in employment. Things are very different when your parents aren't feeding and housing you.

You should also realise that the Spanish spoken by llanito's, 95% of the Spanish speakers I interact with, isn't much good outside of this area. So far enough I could learn the language of my *environment* but it'd be worthless when I leave here. Also if you asked anyone that has spent time here you would know it's very difficult to pick up Spanish from the environment so to speak.. the foreigners are totally excluded from the community here, the locals have the same superiority complex that you seem to have.

I realised where I live and the importance of this a lot of time ago. I don't actually feel any pride about my country or any others, but I know communication is very importand and anyone may contain precious knowledge you may miss if you don't speak their languages. That is, anyone.

OK, so you've missed my point. I live on the costa del sol in a place that is inhibited by *foreigners* because of the laws in Gibraltar that allow certain type of business to operate here which rarely target Spain or Gibraltar. I also socialise in a social group made up of many nationalities and by people that have attended university, are very qualified and speak good English. It's actually considered rude to go rattling off in a language not everyone within your group can understand.

As for the last point; sorry, you're probably too unfamiliarized to Spanish to know what the f*ck you're talking about. See? That's what knowing a language is for; being able to take part on a discussion.

I've seen people from Andalusia struggle to communicate with other Spanish with my own eyes my friend. And I know quite a bit of language theory.. so please don't try to belittle me with expletives.

QUOTEThanks for telling me about the brick wall expression, I'll remember that one. Only reason I won't tell you it's stupid you correct me when speaking your own language on such non-important things

Being corrected it the best way for stuff to stick in your long term memory you realise? Being a cultured explorer of the world you should know this.

QUOTE

when you don't even know or bother knowing mine, is that English is GBATemp's official language.

Man the quilt trip is too much...

 

[moshii]

Communism is a worse evil than Nazism if you look at how many people they each killed...by FAR too...

What can I say.. people have to die sometimes.

Anyways the body count so to speak isn't really communism's fault (There are many different type of Communism, a cumulative body count for all of them isn't ideal) and more about people like Che that were more interested in the dream of revolution at any cost than equality and freedom. This is the reason people wear tshirts with his face pastered on the front afterall.

 

[thegame07]

All spanish people should be proud of thier country. I have been once and i didn't like it much why you ask because i only seen one spanish person :'( However i love the country i would love to stay in spain. Next time i go to spain i want to go see the real spain not some sort of a british holiday camp. So to the spanish people out there any suggestions. Thanks amigos.

 

[Maktub]

/me wonders who pissed on your fireworks...

"you're too young" part because it's worth no answer.

Seriously, once you've done uni etc you'll have a totally different outlook on things. You see there isn't time to go doing everything you might deem valuable. It's sad but true mate. Fair enough learning more Spanish would be useful *while* I'm here, but the fact is it's more sensible to learn things I need in my place of work to remain useful and thus in employment. Things are very different when your parents aren't feeding and housing you.

You should also realise that the Spanish spoken by llanito's, 95% of the Spanish speakers I interact with, isn't much good outside of this area. So far enough I could learn the language of my *environment* but it'd be worthless when I leave here. Also if you asked anyone that has spent time here you would know it's very difficult to pick up Spanish from the environment so to speak.. the foreigners are totally excluded from the community here, the locals have the same superiority complex that you seem to have.

I realised where I live and the importance of this a lot of time ago. I don't actually feel any pride about my country or any others, but I know communication is very importand and anyone may contain precious knowledge you may miss if you don't speak their languages. That is, anyone.

OK, so you've missed my point. I live on the costa del sol in a place that is inhibited by *foreigners* because of the laws in Gibraltar that allow certain type of business to operate here which rarely target Spain or Gibraltar. I also socialise in a social group made up of many nationalities and by people that have attended university, are very qualified and speak good English. It's actually considered rude to go rattling off in a language not everyone within your group can understand.

As for the last point; sorry, you're probably too unfamiliarized to Spanish to know what the f*ck you're talking about. See? That's what knowing a language is for; being able to take part on a discussion.

I've seen people from Andalusia struggle to communicate with other Spanish with my own eyes my friend. And I know quite a bit of language theory.. so please don't try to belittle me with expletives.

Thanks for telling me about the brick wall expression, I'll remember that one. Only reason I won't tell you it's stupid you correct me when speaking your own language on such non-important things

Being corrected it the best way for stuff to stick in your long term memory you realise? Being a cultured explorer of the world you should know this.

when you don't even know or bother knowing mine, is that English is GBATemp's official language.

Man the quilt trip is too much...

Man, I've been living off my parents for 2 years now. I know understanding Spanish here is very hard for foreigners, but it's not worthless. I think I missunderstood you, since I thought the Spaniards you were talking about were not "llanito's" which aren't by us Spanish people considered as Spanish at all, they're more of "brits from gibraltar" and that may've led us into some worthless piece of chitchat. I thought you were talking about people from Cádiz (because they use the "quillo" thing a real lot also). Encleared this, you're right that learning llanito's pretty worthless, but not Spanish, it's not the same thing. I have no superiority complex, at least not about languages. I will always try to communicate with people on their languages as I consider it a way to show respect, even if we're in Spain and I don't see where you got the superiority thing from, I think that was pretty much out of the blue.
Anyone knowing Andalusian knows Spanish as the only difference is a slight change on pronnunciation and some expressions. Really, don't try making me change my mind because no matter how much theory you know, I think I quite know what being Andalusian and living in Spain is like, since I'm Andalusian, know LOTS of Andalusian people and LOTS of Spanish non-Andalusian people. I mean, come on, it'd be like telling a brit how hard it's for them to understand a scottish, man.
I know that being corrected is good when done properly and that's why I thanked you. I wasn't being ironic or anything like that.

The expression you're looking for is "guilt trip", with G.

 

[Maktub]

All spanish people should be proud of thier country. I have been once and i didn't like it much why you ask because i only seen one spanish person :'( However i love the country i would love to stay in spain. Next time i go to spain i want to go see the real spain not some sort of a british holiday camp. So to the spanish people out there any suggestions. Thanks amigos.

I know this may sound stupid since you should wait for love to come and blah blah xD But best way is if you're lucky enough to get a gf here. Else, I wouldn't mind touring you for some of the Southern Spain I live in, there's pretty much to see down here

It's not like a feel pride for this country but I have to admit it has its charm.

 

[moshii]

Man, I've been living off my parents for 2 years now. I know understanding Spanish here is very hard for foreigners, but it's not worthless. I think I missunderstood you, since I thought the Spaniards you were talking about were not "llanito's" which aren't by us Spanish people considered as Spanish at all, they're more of "brits from gibraltar" and that may've led us into some worthless piece of chitchat.

Gibberish is the best term for llanito.. mi illo vrada.

I thought you were talking about people from Cádiz (because they use the "quillo" thing a real lot also). Encleared this, you're right that learning llanito's pretty worthless, but not Spanish, it's not the same thing. I have no superiority complex, at least not about languages. I will always try to communicate with people on their languages as I consider it a way to show respect, even if we're in Spain

Down here there is a trend of shortening words and phrases until they're barely Spanish anymore. For example the standard greeting is "ke pasa"... When you're in a environment like mine you have to speak the common language, respect or not.

Anyone knowing Andalusian knows Spanish as the only difference is a slight change on pronnunciation and some expressions. Really, don't try making me change my mind because no matter how much theory you know, I think I quite know what being Andalusian and living in Spain is like, since I'm Andalusian, know LOTS of Andalusian people and LOTS of Spanish non-Andalusian people. I mean, come on, it'd be like telling a brit how hard it's for them to understand a scottish, man.

You probably find understanding other peoples dialects easier because you're academic. If you ever get the chance go to Bristol in the UK and try to understand the people there. For the common man understanding different dialects of English can be very very difficult.

QUOTE

The expression you're looking for is "guilt trip", with G.

I blame my keyboard.

 

[moshii]

All spanish people should be proud of thier country. I have been once and i didn't like it much why you ask because i only seen one spanish person :'( However i love the country i would love to stay in spain. Next time i go to spain i want to go see the real spain not some sort of a british holiday camp. So to the spanish people out there any suggestions. Thanks amigos.

Did you got to porta banus or something? Those places are always filled with British shouting off in that horrible estuary English.
Ronda is very nice and doesn't attract package holiday idiots.

 

[thegame07]

I know this may sound stupid since you should wait for love to come and blah blah xD But best way is if you're lucky enough to get a gf here. Else, I wouldn't mind touring you for some of the Southern Spain I live in, there's pretty much to see down here

It's not like a feel pride for this country but I have to admit it has its charm.




Southern Spain looks beautiful. I think im going to book a holiday sometime next year and im sure spain will be my choice. I really want to go somewhere where i can see the spanish culture Also somewhere which has a good nightlife where you can get a drink and go to clubs.Your country certainly has its charm. As i see it all countrys have its bad points and good points. The spanish are real friendly people and easy to get a long with(well the ones i have met) your really a lucky man to stay in spain. Well maybe i will be staying there some day. well the next time i go to spain im sure i will research more and i will get to see the real spain. You never know Maktub i might be pick Southern spain and i could be partying in a town near you

QUOTEDid you got to porta banus or something? Those places are always filled with British shouting off in that horrible estuary English.
Ronda is very nice and doesn't attract package holiday idiots.

I went to some place in Mallorca. It was like going to Butlins in the uk except with beautiful scenery.

 

[Maktub]

That's something happening on whole Spain unfortunately. People satisfy themselves by knowing just "moto, dinero, follar" and not much more (bike, money, fuck).

Actually "¿Qué pasa?", phonetically identical to "Ke pasa" has become the standard salutation for most Spaniards nowadays. There's, of course, the problem of "registros" (sorry, I don't have an accurate translation for this word but it means kind of... the way you speak depending on the circumstances; English and Spanish have it while some other languages like German and Swedish don't practically have it anymore). You can't go tell a teacher "qué pasa?" unless you're very confident with that one, but telling "Buenos días" to any friend of your might be the cost of some mockery on you for the pompousity of the expression. This is just an anthropoligical note I found interesting, not much to do with the subject though xD

You probably find understanding other peoples dialects easier because you're academic. If you ever get the chance go to Bristol in the UK and try to understand the people there. For the common man understanding different dialects of English can be very very difficult.

Hm... I'm not so sure, you may be right but many people I know who aren't academic at all can understand other dialects easily. Anyway, for an Andalusian to understand Castellano (standard Spanish) is not hard. Unless you're deaf xD

 

[moshii]

You never know Maktub i might be pick Southern spain and i could be partying in a town near youÂ

Watch out, Spanish measures are 2 or 3 times that you get in the UK.. so it's pretty easy to end up getting busted by the policia and ending up in a cell.

Have your passport handy as you are required to carry ID with you at all times and will need it to get into some places. Also drinks seem to go up in price as the time goes on...

 

[Maktub]

Did you got to porta banus or something? Those places are always filled with British shouting off in that horrible estuary English.
Ronda is very nice and doesn't attract package holiday idiots.

Calellas is also some shit like that. As well as much of Mallorca and Canarias (sorry if anyone from there reads, but it's true :'( ).
It's Puerto Banús I think but yeah, crap anyway.
Ronda is GREAT, it's 2 hours from the place I live by bus. It's really really beautiful. Next year I begin university and I'm moving from my town in Malaga to Granada, you should visit that one also. Cultural city with a great nightlife, good pubs, blues even, teterías (tea places) mixing arabbian culture with flamenco music, nice warm people and not much of an unbearable drunk crap as in many other places.

I know this may sound stupid since you should wait for love to come and blah blah xD But best way is if you're lucky enough to get a gf here. Else, I wouldn't mind touring you for some of the Southern Spain I live in, there's pretty much to see down here

It's not like a feel pride for this country but I have to admit it has its charm.

[/quote]



Southern Spain looks beautiful. I think im going to book a holiday sometime next year and im sure spain will be my choice. I really want to go somewhere where i can see the spanish culture Also somewhere which has a good nightlife where you can get a drink and go to clubs.Your country certainly has its charm. As i see it all countrys have its bad points and good points. The spanish are real friendly people and easy to get a long with(well the ones i have met) your really a lucky man to stay in spain. Well maybe i will be staying there some day. well the next time i go to spain im sure i will research more and i will get to see the real spain. You never know Maktub i might be pick Southern spain and i could be partying in a town near you

[/quote]
Well, contact me if you happen to be coming any time between September and summer next year

Edit: this summer might do as well

 

[thegame07]

I sure will my Spanish friend.

I have seen the spanish police in action i wouldn't like to get in thier way

So i will be sure i watch what im doing

 

[moshii]

Actually "¿Qué pasa?", phonetically identical to "Ke pasa" has become the standard salutation for most Spaniards nowadays. There's, of course, the problem of "registros" (sorry, I don't have an accurate translation for this word but it means kind of... the way you speak depending on the circumstances;

Registros is probably politeness or respect language? I've got a feeling it won't exist in llanito Spanish at all. Instead of asking politely for someone to listen to you, you shout "kushame!" (Spelling is no way correct there) basically "Listen!". :/

English and Spanish have it while some other languages like German and Swedish don't practically have it anymore).

Japanese has a system called ??(Keigo). There are prefixes for nouns, and a range of verb endings to express politeness. You use them differently depending on who you're talking to.

QUOTE

Hm... I'm not so sure, you may be right but many people I know who aren't academic at all can understand other dialects easily. Anyway, for an Andalusian to understand Castellano (standard Spanish) is not hard. Unless you're deaf xD

There's a great difference between those that can learn and those that those can't. You will notice this when you go to uni, trust me. If you've learnt another language you've already trained your mind to be a bit more flexible when it parses the language coming into it and you start to understand your mother tongue a lot more.For example, since I started learning languages I've noticed a lot of phrases in English are totally retarded make no sense at all.

 

[moshii]

I sure will my Spanish friend.

I have seen the spanish police in action i wouldn't like to get in thier way 

So i will be sure i watch what im doing

The problem is that there are 3 sets of police here. The Guardia Civil, The Policia Local and something called the Cobra if I remember correctly. And some places like Puerto Banús then have private police. I have been frisked by the Guardia a few times for carry dangerous objects such as books and psp's.

 

[Maktub]

Actually "¿Qué pasa?", phonetically identical to "Ke pasa" has become the standard salutation for most Spaniards nowadays. There's, of course, the problem of "registros" (sorry, I don't have an accurate translation for this word but it means kind of... the way you speak depending on the circumstances;
[\quote]

Registros is probably politeness or respect language? I've got a feeling it won't exist in llanito Spanish at all. Instead of asking politely for someone to listen to you, you shout "kushame!" (Spelling is no way correct there) basically "Listen!". :/

English and Spanish have it while some other languages like German and Swedish don't practically have it anymore).
[\quote]

Japanese has a system called ??(Keigo). There are prefixes for nouns, and a range of verb endings to express politeness. You use them differently depending on who you're talking to.

Hm... I'm not so sure, you may be right but many people I know who aren't academic at all can understand other dialects easily. Anyway, for an Andalusian to understand Castellano (standard Spanish) is not hard. Unless you're deaf xD

There's a great difference between those that can learn and those that those can't. You will notice this when you go to uni, trust me. If you've learnt another language you've already trained your mind to be a bit more flexible when it parses the language coming into it and you start to understand your mother tongue a lot more.For example, since I start languages I've noticed a lot of phrases in English are totally retarded make no sense at all.

Kúshame is not phonetically so far from its original word "escúchame". I actually pronnounce it like "cúcha" or "cúchame" Listen to me, yes.
It's some sort of... change in the entonation due to the relaxed behavour of most of andalusian people due to the weather. Same happened in regions of ancient Greek such as Laeconia (Sparta) and some experts in language think andalusian is a natural evolution of language. Still, it depends much on the region you're in. I live in a part belonging to Málaga, we speak some weird, but then in the capital they speak plain Spanish almost... anyway I still have to say we perfectly understand each other.
moshii, I realised that much time ago. Really, I know I'm young and this and that but you see, I use English expressions as often as I can since I know translating literally one of my Spanish expressions would be total senseless. I can understand quite a few languages, I study grammar at school (Spanish, English, French, Greek, Latin, two of those are declination-based languages). Also I'm freelancing with Swedish and I constantly compare languages.
For example, I'd never think of telling an english-speaking person: "By the face" (por la cara), meaning "out of the blue". That'd be totally stupid xD I actually know and understand the origin of that and most of the expressions I use since I'm constantly thinking on the meta-linguistical function of language.
By the face comes from telling "Por tu cara bonita" (because of your beautiful face) when someone asks for something for free. It's told ironically. Then it means somehow "for free" told on an ironically tone of voice. Then, we used "por la cara" as a way to tell "for free", and then, we used that "por la cara", as a way to tell "free" in the way of "with no reason" as in "free violence".
And yes, it's more or less the same as Keido, but registro includes also tone of voice, way to move... yeah, kind of politeness when speaking.

 

[Maktub]

I sure will my Spanish friend.

I have seen the spanish police in action i wouldn't like to get in thier wayÂ

So i will be sure i watch what im doing

The problem is that there are 3 sets of police here. The Guardia Civil, The Policia Local and something called the Cobra if I remember correctly. And some places like Puerto Banús then have private police. I have been frisked by the Guardia a few times for carry dangerous objects such as books and psp's.

Please, lets not talk about our police. Specially not about Guardia Civil... Note there are even mor kinds of police (Cobra is not really a set of police but a specialised force in drugs operations and such if I'm not wrong.
Some sets like Policia Nacional don't even recquire you finished secondary optional education (the two years previous to university)...
...

Ah, well, it's not my fault at least.
EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanito
you may find that article interesting, mostly on the related to who understands it. That's why I said it's not so hard when you know Spanish and English, while if you know only one of those, it's really hard.

 

[moshii]

Kúshame is not phonetically so far from its original word "escúchame". I actually pronnounce it like "cúcha" or "cúchame" Listen to me, yes.

Um it works like this though.. Kúshame, compa! it's pretty funny to listen to.

Ah, you've misunderstood me. Many phrases in English are purely idiomatic and don't make any real sense.... don't you don't realise that until you start thinking about it.

I once wrote a meta-language that you embedded within texts to show implied meanings, intonation etc that improves machine translation dramatically. Morphing between dialects is a shit load more difficult. For humans it's more about where you come from, closed communities have stronger dialects and find it more difficult to comprehend outside ones. People in cities experience a lot wider range of dialects due the movement of people and find it a lot easier.

 

[moshii]

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanito

Man, they missed out Vrada culture totally.

It's interesting to note that most of Gibraltar's IP space is barred from editing on Wikipedia because of some huge flamewars that happened, so some stuff is a bit one-sided there.

 

[Maktub]

I think I understood you... Like I'm sleepy, we say "Tengo sueño" (I have dream).
I do know those, really. You don't need to go to uni to learn other language, and the methalinguistical function can be studied at High School (actually even if our average culture level is under a stone's, our educational system is very tough compared to other's in Europe and those having good marks at school are usually well prepared to get started on any university with no surprise of the kind "OHMYGOSH I SEE THE LIGHT!"). Well, having good marks and thinking.