Hacking Private servers for online gaming?

blackwhitexy

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Now that we have a way to install eShop games and updates without Nintendo's online service, the only negative part of getting banned is no online play.

I know games like WoW have private servers where you can play, so I was wondering if this was a possibility down the road on the Nintendo Switch?
 

GraFfiX420

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Now that we have a way to install eShop games and updates without Nintendo's online service, the only negative part of getting banned is no online play.

I know games like WoW have private servers where you can play, so I was wondering if this was a possibility down the road on the Nintendo Switch?

Xlink Kai for switch? Would be nice.
 

PewnyPL

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Down the road? Yes, it would be possible. But not yet. In fact, while Wii and DS have that (Wiimmfi), I don't think 3DS and Wii U got one yet.
 
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V-Temp

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They can break NSP devmenu installation by doing some tweaks and reworks of their devmenu, and you'd need to get a new dev console somehow and get the new devmenu.

The old one is probably banned if they haven't already tracked it down and killed whoever was in possession of it!

Down the road? Yes, it would be possible. But not yet. In fact, while Wii and DS have that (Wiimmfi), I don't think 3DS and Wii U got one yet.

It's fairly difficult to keep a server running for many games and sometimes very big games, not helped by the fact that it becomes a target of possible legal action so who would even want to host it. And then if its hosted somewhere like China to avoid legal trouble, you have massive latency issues. You have massive latency issues for someone somewhere unless you set up regional servers and then also set-up inter-server communications.

Actually, while you're at it, why not just become a multinational billion dollar corporation?
 
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Benoit934

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They can break NSP devmenu installation by doing some tweaks and reworks of their devmenu, and you'd need to get a new dev console somehow and get the new devmenu.

The old one is probably banned if they haven't already tracked it down and killed whoever was in possession of it!



It's fairly difficult to keep a server running for many games and sometimes very big games, not helped by the fact that it becomes a target of possible legal action so who would even want to host it. And then if its hosted somewhere like China to avoid legal trouble, you have massive latency issues. You have massive latency issues for someone somewhere unless you set up regional servers and then also set-up inter-server communications.

Actually, while you're at it, why not just become a multinational billion dollar corporation?

You can make a a local mutlplayer P2P bridge, creating a group of devices ona P2P network with a good security is possible or we can use a bunch of federated servers runned by end users (a fork of tinc vpn)

If it's just a VPN network allowing you do to local play there is no legal issues
 
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aos10

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If you already banned, i don't think it will be possible.
But if not banned yet, and someone made an app for online game, just change the dns so it won't connect to Nintendo servers ever and you will connect to the other network servers.
 

guily6669

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LAN games I'm almost sure it will come as it can be done via a PC receiving packets and sending them untouched to other PC from internet that will redirect to a Switch...

Now a way to actually play the games online like if using nintendo original servers I have no idea, I don't think I ever seen anything like that for my Xbox360 too because its just way too much hardcoded in the games it self and would probably need to recompile all games separately with the new server stuff, I have no clue at all as I'm not a dev in any way ;).

I also don't know anything about any other nintendo console as I only have a 3DS and don't even like the console and never liked nintendo consoles or even most games at all, but I really like the Switch, just not most games :D.

PS: And anyway who would want to host any kind of servers like that going against a multi-billion company with their online paid service :ph34r:...
 
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seanrhodes05

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I'd assume that something like this would be possible, but this early in the nintendo switch modding seen it may be a while before we see something like that.
 

guily6669

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well until the servers shut down for the 3ds/wii u maybe someone will make one
Yeah, thats probably more like it... Because if someone could actually make a full separated online service not based on LAN, on a console with paid online (xbox\ps4\Switch), I believe those companies would take that as big offence as someone releasing their biggest secret the actual master key that can sign their latest FW, I guess they wouldnt stop until someone is actually arrested and every single server that they could see online with it leaked closed...

But anyway if the online functionality would be very deeply hard-coded into games and would have to be a per-game basis and having to like reverse engineer and compile all of them again, no one would do that either.

ps: But I have no clue on anything, so I could be saying BS's as like I said I'm not a dev... But at least in other hacking community for the Xbox devs said at least on the Xbox360 it was too deeply hardcoded in the games, so I have no idea...
 
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FAST6191

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General theory of third party servers then.

Games can do all sorts of things to effect multiplayer though there will be two main models

1) Multicast and all done on hardware.
2) The server actually does something.

1) Normally has the remote servers basically acting as matchmaking and maybe high score tables. After that the server might take data each person sends it and then sends it on to all parties (if you need to upload 100K a second of data then for an 8 person game that becomes 800 and thus breaks a lot of consumer ADSL, sending 100 to a big server which then uses its oodles of bandwidth to send said 800K/second is far more doable.
Alternatively you will send data to all parties or together make up a server after the developer run server does matchmaking, this is what is known as p2p servers as you send things person to person like you might with a torrent or something.

2) Has the server doing calculations on everything that is happening in the game, for instance you don't need to have an idea of every person on a given server for a mmo on your little device or in the case of some FPS where the server knows where all of the 64 players plus their vehicles, bullets.... and predicting effects where someone's connection will inevitably conk out for a second or two. World of warcraft is this but it was noted its requests were essentially a common database language and thus it was able to be pulled apart (plus possibly some leaked code or analysis of the game client -- between function names, observing what is happening on screen, being able to control what is happening on screen... you can learn a lot).
If there is a PC version where people can host their own servers, or at least poke and prod their connection more easily, then this is also an option for something to look at for some clues.

At the same time the stuff guily6669 notes is more how does it handle it.
For something like the DS it was noted that any secure data (more or less just a handshake) would also work non secured so that was intercepted, understood and the game tweaked (the s part of https was removed from the relevant urls) so when you changed the DNS (the thing that takes internet addresses and translates them to the current IP address for that site/address) and it pointed at custom servers it was all good (no worries about the security part of SSL being tripped when we had no certificates either). I am not entirely up on the wii stuff but I believe it is a similar story.
If however the game buried server names deep, or even IP addresses, vets security of data all the time you have to extricate all this which is a pain. Doable enough I guess but where the DS can usually have been done in seconds then this will take some serious time to do one game.

Local setups a la xlink kai.
Some games allow local multiplayer, common in handhelds for obvious reasons but with a lot of older xbox games being essentially PC games and LAN parties being a thing back then you saw LAN games also became a thing for the original xbox (and then some on the 360 as well but the concept was fading fast, not to mention a quirk I will cover shortly).
If you can take this multiplayer data and send it over a network then you can use a personal VPN (virtual private network) which essentially makes a local network over the internet and thus is obvious. xlink kai was then the name of a popular service for this for the original xbox, and a few other systems (still a VPN in the end though). The 360 frustrated this by including an upper ping limit that no normal LAN would ever likely see but all but a close internet connection on the same ISP in the same city would see. Said ping limit was able to be knocked out at the system level for JTAG/RGH systems (not DVD modded systems though) but nothing stopping people from burying it deep and making it hard to remove.
Said "if you can take the data" also becomes a thing. For the DS then the reason it never happened for local games was that the protocol it uses is quite weird and custom (a kind of headless wifi) which no consumer card really stands a chance of capturing. I imagine it is technically feasible with some of the really swish FPGA programmable radios some cards have or having some fun with a spectrum analyser (if not out and out custom hardware) but... yeah.
If said games support or otherwise generate a conventional wifi style access point then you can sit something in the middle of it (connect to your PC which obviously you can control the nth degree) and fire it wherever you like.

You also run into the problem that not all games feature local play or that local play is substantially different to online offerings and thus you may still want a proper replication of internet services, or maybe a more in depth hacking job for the games to open them up a bit.

Screen sharing internet setups a la kaillera
For those devices allowing splitscreen multiplayer then you can essentially stream the video and audio outputs somewhere else and take back control inputs. Sony and MS seem to offer something functionally equivalent to this with their various game session sharing services. kaillera is the name of one of the earlier methods for doing this, one which was supported in a variety of emulators.

If it is a device that is essentially separate and expects actual communications from something... outside its shell/controller inputs then this is not so useful as is. Some more recent efforts with handheld link cable games can still make use of something like this by emulating it all on one system, and people had been doing it for years with GBA emulators -- trying to send data that normally goes over a serial cable (very short, no disconnects/slowdowns and dropped packets normally there) and hoping the internet (the opposite of the last bracketed section) holds up is not a good plan. Obviously though this means emulating two (or more) devices at once on the same machine (or possibly LAN) with all the resources that requires. While remote control programs are good then for some twitchy/high speed reaction games it is rather more troubling, no reason not to try though and if you can sort a turn based game then no worries.
If you are doing it properly as well you might also want to hide screens for those games that need it -- I used to use the two emulators thing years ago to play advance wars on my PC, if we were playing with fog of war then it is not much good if I can just look across and see the second emulator and thus the troop types and positions (I solved it in my case by having a second monitor and controlling the other emulator with a controller instead of a keyboard).
You might also want a way to catapult saves and savestates around just in case things get disconnected.

For both the a la sub sections I should also link the following for while it is very old it certainly still applies
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131781/the_internet_sucks_or_what_i_.php

Legality of all this... tricky.
https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/20/esa-dmca-online-gaming-petition/
That covers an exemption to the DMCA (the main thing governing a lot of US software IP law, a horrible piece of law written by incompetents and people with a vested interest in making it suck if you ask me but a piece of law never the less) which allows third party efforts for abandoned games and as you can see there then the ESA opposes it even for abandoned things for reasons of competition, never mind current stuff.
At the same time then legal case wise then I have nothing really. There were plenty of private servers for WoW for years, before the wii online died then emulators could even connect to it, as far as I am aware the DS and Wii stuff has been just fine for years, the early* DS and Wii hacking work happened in public.
I am not sure what principles of law I would point to so as to make at least a moral case for all this -- probably some combo of the very same thing that allows you to ban me from your private network also allows me to set up my own. Anybody that joins mine already hacked and set it up to join and thus it won't bother your customers and their actions are a tacit agreement here anyway (anybody that can join a third party server here already knows what goes). Depending upon your methods of reverse engineering then it might tip over into the not so clean room methods but it is not like we care about that around here.

*technically it started at or around the same time that gamespy (which ran the service for the DS and Wii) was announced that it was going to be shuttered, obviously taking most DS and Wii games with it so eh.

I saw mention of cheats and hacks. Potentially a problem for some (if you can get to the point where you have third party servers you can have cheats/mods too) but no reason not to figure it all out and give people the option to implement things.

As far as working if you are banned already it should have no effect if done properly, I imagine there are half measures where people still use some official something but that is a half measure and would probably not be employed here. If you are banned already then obviously you are not going to be as able to help by using said banned console to monitor what sorts of data is sent.
Similarly if the bans are coming for essentially unknown reasons and you need a hacked device to figure out what is happening then you have a time limit there. If it is using local stuff then it should not matter at all -- the case where your device is blacklisted or has a "I'm banned" flag sent I don't imagine will be in play here.
 

softwareengineer

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Nice info FAST, I'm interested in this too. And I wasn't even considering there might be legal issues when writing my post (when creating private servers for commercial games rather than custom homebrew games)... Solution is maybe to run the dedicated private servers from gigabit+ fiber lines as TOR hidden services maybe? And a TOR client being part of the homebrew netplay module so it can connect... Might still be too slow to be practical though. Or we just p2p it like you've stated, servers go up and down not one main server staying up somewhere to be targeted... But I like dedicated servers as then you can control the variables on the server side and keep them server sided to deter cheating. We'll figure it out I suppose! :)

I second this. However I'm not sure if we could still play if we're banned. I'm guessing I'm wrong.
Yes of course you could, being banned doesn't like disable your ability to use the wifi interface and connect to anywhere you want like for example private servers :)

I envision a standardized way that could be made to work for all online capable games, which would function normally just it would be connecting and utilizing non nintendo servers while the console still thinks it's connecting to the regular servers... Except you could play and not have to worry about being banned, or already banned people could still be able to play, or people that don't update to the latest firmware can still play :)

I refuse to update and am sticking with my version 4.1.0 so I can't even see how it operates normally. Though with emunand soon and since I'm already above the card reader firmware update that should change things.

Networking and sockets stuff is my favorite thing to work on, so it's right up my alley :) But the trick will be bypassing that 'you must update your firmware' / or 'you've been banned' roadblock and pushing it through anyway. That's if we want to make it seamless and seem to work just as it normally would, but like I said without doing that you could just connect to other non nintendo servers directly.

Perhaps in the meantime I should try that, make a little homebrew game with multiplayer networking support! It would demonstrate that multiplayer network game play is very doable over the net or over the local network (yes I know local multiplayer games use bluetooth apparently but that doesn't mean we could use the network instead! See what I'm saying?!)

But how multiplayer networking look like? Like a master server + game/dedicated server model? Or also include a matchmaking feature which also lets you see what people are playing so unlike some poorly done matchmaking functionalities you could also choose your game details based on what you see people playing coinciding with what you like playing or just directly join in those games instead as well and not just having to blindly select what you want and finding out minutes later no one wanted to play that lol... I strongly dislike net services that do that type of shit!

There's something I need to clarify though, I've heard that N* uses p2p networking where each player can influence the variables and cheat easily... That surprised me because I'm used to the dedicated server model where unless you're the server operator and you yourself enable the cheats on the server end, connecting clients have no control over the game variables since they're protected on the server side. Like for example join up a game of CS and you won't be able to change and cheat your health or money or ammo values (unless like I said it's your server you're running) because those variables are held server side and the admin of it controls them, not the clients. (Yea there's still aim cheats and wallhacks and other client sided able shit, but you get the point it limits and restricts the type of cheats that can be effectively done absent some kind of exploit that does allow them to effect the server sided variables.)

Please people, reserve the cheating to playing on single player so you can enhance your experience like that if you want without ruining others experience. Or run your own private cheat enabled server if that's your thing. Lol I like cheating my single player games, but the exception was when I did run a cs server long ago that had mods and custom cheat enabled things but it was clear in the modt and I enabled it for everyone, just stuff like a command that gave them instantly whatever load out they wanted and all weapons had infinite ammo that type of thing lol :) So that's also cool if you're being open about it with your own server and not just being the admin and you yourself cheating everyone else lol... They're for everyone on your own server or just keep it to single player for yourself!

Ok... I think I've got an idea simple game (no not pong lol what I'm thinking of doing should be much more fun than that! I have a simple idea in mind, that should be doable (not like a huge rpg or something, at least not yet :)) to then demonstrate the multiplayer networking. It's going to take some time, since I have to make a little game just to have it show multiplayer networking support, but lets see what I can do.

I need to get a proper debugger up and running though, that should be first I think!
 

FAST6191

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You could do some kind of hidden service game server I guess. Really though there have been many blatant, public and well documented instances of private servers for massive games from massive companies for some decades now and I have not seen them taken down for being as such. I have more examples of ROM hacks being bothered than I have of server woes. Some of said servers have even been paid after a fashion.

If you open source the server client then by the time any hypothetical reaction comes it is too late, someone will stuff it over a VPN or other kind of service, and for the most part if you can get it so you and a few mates or you and a few of your fellow forum goers/chat room friends/... can do a nudge nudge wink wink "we don't endorse such servers but if you were wishing to do so" type thing.

Server wise I doubt you would want to adapt server models -- I would probably not even turn a multicast server into a p2p one, though I might turn a complete p2p into multicast as that is done easily enough.
If you do have a multicast you can stick some anti cheat on that to mimic some of the things seen on true server controls everything type setups; if everything is going through you then you can take the time and data contents and realise that nobody should have been able to move that far that quick or restore ammo in that location or whatever and boot them accordingly, a bit more processing than simple multicast but nothing too taxing.

"But the trick will be bypassing that 'you must update your firmware' / or 'you've been banned' roadblock and pushing it through anyway."
I don't think there are any local "this device is banned" flags to worry about, and with the sorts of hacks we have had from the start with the Switch then barring future models and them maybe getting lesser hacks any such flag is a non issue (after all we literally have total control from boot on up). https://www.reddit.com/r/SwitchHacks/comments/8rxg26/psa_strong_antipiracy_measures_implemented_by/ covers some of the protocol and handshake.
Firmware updates are not really an issue for third party servers, could be for official ones if they do the obvious thing of change all the sign in protocols in a later version. Here though I imagine people will always be able to virtualise at least the latest kernel or run a custom one.
Game level software ones might be if they change the relevant sections of the game but also something of a non issue if the community sorts a decent update file host (like was done for the PC, xbox 360 title updates and any number of other things over the years).

As far as homebrew goes I don't know the state of the Switch homebrew (or OS API) network stack right now. We have seen plenty of network games since the original DS and PSP (and a bunch before that even) mind you, though if you want to do it to explore some of the pitfalls of the Switch approaches that would be nice, or you can do it for fun if that is your goal.

Matchmaking wise it depends what you do. Xlink kai (the old VPN service popular on the original xbox) did include a matchmaking component, one at times governed by alternative clients if the original device struggled with multitasking (today if everybody is supposed to have a phone or something it is even easier).

Regarding Nintendo's competence with anti cheat I do have to remember the Pokemon 3ds stuff where they sent people's pokemon selections in plaintext to their opponent while there was still time on the clock (and thus a chance to generate a counter team). That said the local save based equipment selection for splatoon 2 on the Switch is also pretty bad.
 

Darksabre72

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Yeah, thats probably more like it... Because if someone could actually make a full separated online service not based on LAN, on a console with paid online (xbox\ps4\Switch), I believe those companies would take that as big offence as someone releasing their biggest secret the actual master key that can sign their latest FW, I guess they wouldnt stop until someone is actually arrested and every single server that they could see online with it leaked closed...

But anyway if the online functionality would be very deeply hard-coded into games and would have to be a per-game basis and having to like reverse engineer and compile all of them again, no one would do that either.

ps: But I have no clue on anything, so I could be saying BS's as like I said I'm not a dev... But at least in other hacking community for the Xbox devs said at least on the Xbox360 it was too deeply hardcoded in the games, so I have no idea...
well i can't see switch games being hardcoded into the servers, but ps4/xboxone is definitely the case. sadly i feel like for to play a hacked console online were going to have to pay for membership (ex:ninja) like on the xbox360.
 

FAST6191

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If you want to use a hacked console online on official services then chances are you will have to keep up to date, maybe slide some money someone's way or be prepared to get a whole stack of keys to use for when the bans come but for the sorts of things we are discussing here with third party/private servers not affiliated at all with the official ones then free things are doable, and have been on many occasions.
 

guily6669

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well i can't see switch games being hardcoded into the servers, but ps4/xboxone is definitely the case. sadly i feel like for to play a hacked console online were going to have to pay for membership (ex:ninja) like on the xbox360.
Well the online full service is still not out, I bet there will be lot of changes...

And yeah the Xbox360 was shitty, the XbLive emulator cost like 25€ or some crap like that for like 12H or maybe 24h as I dont remember of unbanned XboxLive with unbanned keys and working trough RGH, I bet anyone who would pay a lot for that + the XbLive subscription (which I think it still wasnt included, no idea on that) are just to hack online and kill the game for legit players paying 4 everything which is bad.
 
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guily6669

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That's quite a lot of hassle and its a different thing as he is using LAN or internet friend command inputs from the PC to Titan one device (remote play)...

It still requires a still kinda expensive capture card and a titan one or titan 2 device to input PC buttons\keyboard\mouse data to inside the switch.

I wonder why he uses a Brooke adapter if titan one already supports Switch natively? (unless it also requires a pro controller connected 4 authorization).

Also I wonder if just using Xlink Kai as it is alone would work between 2 switches over the internet on LAN games? (I know it can be done, but I just wonder if the app would actually already be working for the Switch without even having Switch support).
 

FAST6191

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Heh. Did not know controller adapters were that far advanced for the Switch. I would probably skip the titan stuff in favour of a USB development board (any number of those can do passthrough and faking, don't know if I could juice one hard enough to fake the necessary inputs for a Switch) and whatever USB over IP software is good this week. That said if you are buying things off the shelf then those will do.

Capture cards can be had pretty cheap if you wanted
http://www.dx.com/p/cmi-1920x1080-h...-ps3-xbox360-hdtv-pc-blue-285264#.W0uobyQo9hG
Similarly when all the video editors discovered 4k the other year then a lot of the nicer black magic cards dropped massively on the second hand market, though you will need to strip HDMI somehow (hopefully "HDMI switches" are still as available as they were).

I don't know how many people's internet connections would sustain that with any kind of decent latency (if I am using a USB dev board I might have to also add hold buttons until you receive an actual packet saying it is no longer pressed), and possibly resolution as well, but that is an option here I guess. It might be worth it for a hotel or something similar.

There was an earlier discussion about VPN on local play. I think some might support access points for local play (effectively making it LAN play). Otherwise I am still not sure of the specifics here. The game focused versions of them allowed fairly rapid deployment of new games -- they tend not to require any special coding.
 

guily6669

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I still find that expensive, I wonder when someone will actually give a capture card capable of 4K 60FPS with all fancy stuff like HDR support.... for like 25€...;)

And about the USB devices, I have CronusMax for lot of years, sadly it doesnt support Switch, but its wonderful, you can make custom scripts and have gamepacks from the CM team and support for almost any controller on any modern console (Switch support sadly will only come on new CM device). I also can use my old Logitech G25 that I bought chep barely used from a friend and with CM on the PS4 it fully emulates a Logitech G29 with full force feedback it just works as good as in the PC.

You can also make mod menus using controller leds or colors like on the DS4, I made a script for the DS4 that kept changing colors, looks awesome, though it was just a test as I don't like the leds, I put black tape on them as it was making my whole room blue at night :D.


IF YOU CAN MAKE A SWITCH PRO CONTROLLER EMULATED ON WINDOWS FOR THE SWITCH PLEASE RELEASE HERE ON GBA!!!!
 

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