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In your recent posts you have strait up been attacking people who gen. Don't want people to lol at your posts? Be less of a jerk with how you voice your opinions. Its ok to disagree with someone, but saying what they are doing is wrong, unacceptable, or whatever.... get off your high horse. You also can't seem to accept other people's opinions. You have to argue with them for 10 posts like you think they are going to have an epiphany and relize you were right this whole time. Arguing in an opinion thread like this won't net you any friends.
Can't you close the thread yourself? Or is that only with trading area threads?
I think all pokemon when started online should have their iv values buffed to 31 from the start. However for pvp It's only you that knows if your pokemon is legal or not so if your trying to offer they take the same chance. Most kids wouldn't know the difference. They go in thinking their holographic charizard is amazing when really someone copied it off and traded it to the kid and his mom for 6 booster packs. It's the same deal that the value isn't the same and there's no way for them to know if it's real.
Even if you gen it correctly your value of that shiny pokemon you genned isn't near the value as walking into grass and finding a shiny. It's just meh so what.
People have gotten banned from play quite a few times not realizing the pokemon they had were hacked. happened to my best friend with her extremespeed dragonite.
Even if you gen it correctly your value of that shiny pokemon you genned isn't near the value as walking into grass and finding a shiny. It's just meh so what.
People have gotten banned from play quite a few times not realizing the pokemon they had were hacked. happened to my best friend with her extremespeed dragonite.
Hey, I do respect other's opinions. And you guys are also attacking others who don't gen, telling us to suck it up and deal with it. That's a jerk-ish move too.
That doesnt change my point. Im not saying those people are right, but i personally havent said things like that and like mom always said, 2 wrongs dont make a right.
So just because one person hacks their pokemon doesn't mean the other should? see how I'm putting a spin on it xD I think it's just the idea that people see it as counterfeiting like money. When people work all day to get paid well someone could print theres
Last edited by RivenMain,
That's the thing though, people who are okay with genning aren't saying that. They're saying that everyone is entitled to play their games the way they wish. I respect your opinion on believing that genning is wrong, what I don't respect is you telling people what they can and can't do.
The point is that genning (and whether it's right or wrong) is a personal decision to make.
Well, I'm sorry. The tread has gone long enough that I didn't have anything better to say than just "Don't play competitively with hack Pokémon." It's like that we don't want to hear each other's opinion anymore.
Honestly, this was the same problem that I had to deal with in the Paper Mario fans from another forum.
It's an individuals choice if they want to, yes. Though the distribution of it to the public with the ideal of deception for pokemon obtained legally I disagree with. at least without proper notice of what you are trading otherwise you are trading a pokemon that you know is hacked without the concern of the other and in return they may not show concern for your sake either. Like two catfish trying to get each other to take the bait.
Last edited by RivenMain,
I've just been talking about battling; I never mentioned trading. I agree that trading genned Pokémon while passing them off as legit isn't a good thing to do.
Telling people what they can and can't do isn't just an opinion though. There's a difference between "I believe X is wrong" and "Don't do X".
Exactly. Continuing to try to get your point across to the other side just starts arguments. Voice your opinion and if you truely respects others' opinions, shhhh. If people act like jerks and you do it back, that just makes you equally in the wrong.
Now that I've calmed down, I'll say this:
Too me, cheating is bad. I really don't mind hacked Pokémon. I hack Pokémon as well, but you don't see me participating in VGC with them. So do I think players disserve to play competitively? No, but I wouldn't be surprised if I faced a player with genned Pokémon. Reason why I said so? Perfect 6IV is nearly impossible, but I guess that statement is flawed since Hyper Training is featured.
What I do wish for is for TPCi to find a way to flag genned Pokémon, so players will know that it's hacked and you can't use it in tournaments. This would also make it easier for judges to identify the Pokemon to see if it's genned or not.
Too me, cheating is bad. I really don't mind hacked Pokémon. I hack Pokémon as well, but you don't see me participating in VGC with them. So do I think players disserve to play competitively? No, but I wouldn't be surprised if I faced a player with genned Pokémon. Reason why I said so? Perfect 6IV is nearly impossible, but I guess that statement is flawed since Hyper Training is featured.
What I do wish for is for TPCi to find a way to flag genned Pokémon, so players will know that it's hacked and you can't use it in tournaments. This would also make it easier for judges to identify the Pokemon to see if it's genned or not.
I have plenty of 100% legit 6v pokemon, its not that hard tbh. I agree with your opinion on tournaments because whether i agree or not, cheating is still cheating. Unfortunately I don't think "legit" hackmon will ever be detectable. We can change literally anything about a pokemon file. We can even gen "legit" PIDs, edit memories, anything. Plus, gamefreaks ia TERRIBLE at security. Remember pokebank launch? Delayed months to make it "hack-proof" and someome sent a lvl 1 gengar thru it day 1. Yay waiting for literally nothing. =/
They can't prove anything really other than they can spend time on pure timesink RNG that has completely nothing to do with the competitive gameplay aspect of the game.
if you gen a pokemon correcly theres no way to tell its hacked or anyway to prove it is so theres no way for sure to tell if a vgc player is cheating or now so they can't dq them just because all there pokemon are 6 iv shiny
I think the whole argument is funny anyway. How is it any different from smash or MK when literally everyone is picking from a pool of characters on even footing albeit with unique strengths and weaknesses? The only thing different is the breeding meta which is essentially a mini-game anyway for people with too much time on their hands. Seriously, it's supposed to be a "when you have time" kind of thing not obligatory. You guys can't make comparisons to that of athletes or tests or the like because the medium does grant an unfair advantage in the long run, time does not. A better way to say it is if two people work on the same report and one finishes two days early the one who took longer is not guaranteed a better grade. It's the exact same thing with pokemon. Not to mention it boils down to the fact they are computer data, on a video game, used for "assumed" fun, it's not the same as someone training for years to become an Olympic runner while another takes steroids (the latter will have illegal stats 
). Lol
). Lol
I love the shitstorm this subject usually makes. Oh well, opinion time.
Genning pokemon has been around since the dawn of online Pokemon play. It's a thing that just happens, and with the advancements in Pokemon itself, so too do the tools improve. However, reading the first few pages, I would like to address a few things.
The "equal footing" argument. I don't believe it really applies to Pokemon, or "cheating" in videogames in general. Now I, myself, am one of the people who actually take the time to bother with breeding and such. It's something I can do when I'm bored. I don't particularly enjoy it, but even so, I still do it. Why? Because even preparation is part of the actual game. It's not like Pokemon is centered around battles alone. At some point, however, the idea was started that it's fine because everyone can do it. Here's the thing, though, not everyone can. Just like not everyone can play the game 2 weeks in advance. It's just giving yourself an early start. Imagine if you were racing speedruns with someone in a game. One player starts 2 hours in advance, but the other is allowed to use glitches to catch up to the other player. In the end, the results are similar, but one person just has a comfortable lead, and that's exactly what genning does. It allows a certain portion of players to start early and have a lead as opposed to other players, who are still playing catch-up with the current metagame.
The odd thing about it is that the players don't even truly have equal footing to begin with. As it currently stands, not everyone has access to homebrew, and thus it gives the players who do have homebrew an advantage in time. A lot of you only consider that "you only have the data earlier", and while that is true, Gen VII metagame is still a developing meta. While you're allowing the meta to evolve faster like this, players who don't gen their pokemon (or are unable to) may not be able to keep up due to advancements happening faster than they can keep up with. To address the same argument made using smash, it would be the same thing as being able to try out a patch early. You already know the new data, and have been able to gain experience with it. You're learning the new meta already, while another player is stuck with data and may still need the experience. Again, it's a developing meta, thus giving yourself a time advantage is still giving yourself an advantage. Footing can't be equal using genned Pokemon until the meta has settled down.
While it's probably important to certain people to "skip the boring stuff to get to competitive", I like to think that, if other people finally get their hard-earned shiny 4-5IV Pokemon, it may be a bit disheartening to them that another player had to click about 10 times and scan a QR code to achieve the same result, or better. In this case, it is ruining an aspect of another's game through means beyond the realms of what is possible in the game itself. I'm not saying the Pokemon is illegit, just that the clicks are not done in-game, so it technically should not exist there as of yet.
That being said, I'm not completely against the tools either, I would just keep them out of a competition. It may be good to use them to check if a team would work before devoting time into said team, just like how some people prefer CFW just to be able to demo games before they buy. It's still something that you probably shouldn't be doing, but atleast it's not morally wrong... mostly.
That aside, I really do question why people still feel the need to gen in VII. Hyper Training makes having a 6IV extremely easy. Then there's the mechanics developed in gen VI... They're trying to make it as easy as possible so that everyone doesn't have to do it. It takes less than two hours to get your perfect pokemon if you play your cards correctly. Why the hell would you even need genned pokemon at this point?
Genning pokemon has been around since the dawn of online Pokemon play. It's a thing that just happens, and with the advancements in Pokemon itself, so too do the tools improve. However, reading the first few pages, I would like to address a few things.
The "equal footing" argument. I don't believe it really applies to Pokemon, or "cheating" in videogames in general. Now I, myself, am one of the people who actually take the time to bother with breeding and such. It's something I can do when I'm bored. I don't particularly enjoy it, but even so, I still do it. Why? Because even preparation is part of the actual game. It's not like Pokemon is centered around battles alone. At some point, however, the idea was started that it's fine because everyone can do it. Here's the thing, though, not everyone can. Just like not everyone can play the game 2 weeks in advance. It's just giving yourself an early start. Imagine if you were racing speedruns with someone in a game. One player starts 2 hours in advance, but the other is allowed to use glitches to catch up to the other player. In the end, the results are similar, but one person just has a comfortable lead, and that's exactly what genning does. It allows a certain portion of players to start early and have a lead as opposed to other players, who are still playing catch-up with the current metagame.
The odd thing about it is that the players don't even truly have equal footing to begin with. As it currently stands, not everyone has access to homebrew, and thus it gives the players who do have homebrew an advantage in time. A lot of you only consider that "you only have the data earlier", and while that is true, Gen VII metagame is still a developing meta. While you're allowing the meta to evolve faster like this, players who don't gen their pokemon (or are unable to) may not be able to keep up due to advancements happening faster than they can keep up with. To address the same argument made using smash, it would be the same thing as being able to try out a patch early. You already know the new data, and have been able to gain experience with it. You're learning the new meta already, while another player is stuck with data and may still need the experience. Again, it's a developing meta, thus giving yourself a time advantage is still giving yourself an advantage. Footing can't be equal using genned Pokemon until the meta has settled down.
While it's probably important to certain people to "skip the boring stuff to get to competitive", I like to think that, if other people finally get their hard-earned shiny 4-5IV Pokemon, it may be a bit disheartening to them that another player had to click about 10 times and scan a QR code to achieve the same result, or better. In this case, it is ruining an aspect of another's game through means beyond the realms of what is possible in the game itself. I'm not saying the Pokemon is illegit, just that the clicks are not done in-game, so it technically should not exist there as of yet.
That being said, I'm not completely against the tools either, I would just keep them out of a competition. It may be good to use them to check if a team would work before devoting time into said team, just like how some people prefer CFW just to be able to demo games before they buy. It's still something that you probably shouldn't be doing, but atleast it's not morally wrong... mostly.
That aside, I really do question why people still feel the need to gen in VII. Hyper Training makes having a 6IV extremely easy. Then there's the mechanics developed in gen VI... They're trying to make it as easy as possible so that everyone doesn't have to do it. It takes less than two hours to get your perfect pokemon if you play your cards correctly. Why the hell would you even need genned pokemon at this point?
Last edited by ShinyLatios,
The time advantage I admit is a good argument, but the thing is there are resources to help shape one's grasp on competitive play. Forums, Smogon, and just battling through Battle Spot. Again with the league I gen for, most of them don't have the time to do things legit, yet they are really good through battling, discussion of strategy, and being active in studying the metagame. So there might be a time thing, but there's also patience, focus, dedication, there are those who stick to the metagame like glue, who use Showdown a lot, which despite not being as good as the real thing, it's really helpful in experimenting, improving strategy, and understanding the metagame and different tiers, then applying it to the actual games. You have to admit that this time argument, it can be countered with the fact that people can commit to the games a lot more than others. Also, I've been genning since January 2015, ORAS came out 2 months before, and the Gen 6 competitive scene changed drastically because of what ORAS brought, the tutor moves, the new mega evolutions and the strongest pokemon ever in Mega Rayquaza (at least in my opinion). I am not that dedicated a battler, yet I gen and hack and speed up the breeding process, but even so I didn't commit to learning the metagame, to improving my own strategy, as a result I'm not as good as I should given how much time I have in my life. It's a case by case thing, it depends on the individual, and what they do to improve themselves, the legit and genned way don't have much bearing on that, in the end it's about the person itself and how much they're willing to catch up in the race so to speak.
Also with Pokemon, again with Showdown, all the hardcore battlers use that, legit lovers or hackers regardless, so it's not worth comparing the games to Smash and Mario Kart, those games don't have a dedicated simulator, and I found too with Smash, all I can do is battle, with Pokemon there's a lot more, I think I do better with Smash using my main Cloud than I would with Pokemon battling.
Lastly on Gen VII, I haven't even beat the games, I've spent more time genning pokemon for people than playing them. I need confirmation, with the bike removed, there's no circle pad trick? Circling a route to hatch an egg, use a dime or penny to stick under the circle pad? I'm not sure about that. Also, Hyper Training, I used to think is a godsend, but now learning about it, no. It's a half-godsend, because apparently it's superficial. You can't pass down hyper trained IVs, and it doesn't change your hidden power. That's useful in a way, but then with soft resetting for legends, the focus is shifted. So you can't hyper train Dittos and breed them, which sucks, meaning the 6IV Ditto trend is still going, I think it's hotter now, 60% of the requests I've taken are fucking 6IV foreign Dittos. In the end, Hyper Training is great for people not willing to soft reset legends and events for long, who only use the pokemon in question to battle and not breed, thus it's best for non-egg Pokemon, as in the legendaries and mythicals. In that respect, great, but I was really let down learning it's just superficial. With that, I'm still going to soft reset for legends like before. You know how many soft resets (using a bot to check and do the deed, but it's still a time consumer) it took for me to get the right Kyurem? 13600. Insane, the bright side was it turned out to be 6IVs, I just wanted 5, hoorah. Not going to be fun here, plus bottle caps are scarce, another popular request I've found, attach them to a Ditto (if not the Destiny Knot) or something else. So while GameFreak did help out that IV hunting, they didn't do the whole 9 yards, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing, I would think they want to control how to get perfect pokemon, they've been hand holding so much, you'd think they'd do so here, but instead it's hand holding for a limited time. Maybe Gen 8 can be the whole 9 yards. That's really why hacking is still going on, Hyper Training isn't the bee's knees I at least hoped for. But it still kind of meets my own personal desire, and that's boosting the IVs of pre-Gen VI transfers, like my SoulSilver Latios.
Rambling again, quite frankly I want this thread to be closed, it's a circle that keeps going around. Someone stating the same things the opposing side said before, and what I've said before. It's reached that point, at least your argument is different, it wouldn't get me to suspend my current activities and make this long-winded post if otherwise.
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Psionic Roshambo:
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