OpenBOR Wii

mrmagicm

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Quaztab:
You can unPAK a PAK and batch convert the WAV files from stereo to mono, and rePAK the game, and it will then work, which is also an excellent way to lower a PAKs memory load too to make it Wii compliant.

Hi, this is very interesting that you give this info to all of us!! But please, what tool do you use to DEPACK and REPACK Pak files to do that? What tool do you use to convert audio file from stereo to mono so it works afterwards?
Also, I notice It seems some Openbor games were made to work with a "specific" version of openbor....so if you update your DOL file to latest, only those that work with the latest will work it seems!! So it seems the good ways would be having differents version of openbor, test which game are compatible with the version, and put them in the adequate directory of the openbor Version. Your thoughts about this?
 

Qaztab

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Quaztab:


Hi, this is very interesting that you give this info to all of us!! But please, what tool do you use to DEPACK and REPACK Pak files to do that? What tool do you use to convert audio file from stereo to mono so it works afterwards?
Also, I notice It seems some Openbor games were made to work with a "specific" version of openbor....so if you update your DOL file to latest, only those that work with the latest will work it seems!! So it seems the good ways would be having differents version of openbor, test which game are compatible with the version, and put them in the adequate directory of the openbor Version. Your thoughts about this?
This is a cut and paste from a post I made on Reddit a whiles back:



It's odd that when you search this sub for OpenBOR threads that it's pretty empty. For those unaware, OpenBOR is a public domain side-scrolling fighting engine with a TON of user created content. Wii Mundo has some dedicated links which have Wii specific optimized games, which I definitely recommend checking out, but the Wii is not confined to just those games.

I've been fiddling with OpenBOR tweaking games to get them to work on the Wii, and have some tips to share when it comes to the Wii version. First:

- The Wii has memory issues with some, and especially newer, OpenBOR games.

This is not a surprise because the Wii in general has lots of issues with memory and arcade emulation. There are ways to get incompatible games to run though, and it comes down to unpacking an OpenBOR PAK, tweaking the innards to make them smaller, then recompiling it. The programs you need to do this are part of the OpenBOR package and the batch files to do this are called "Paxplode.bat" to unpack a PAK file into a DATA directory, and "Packer.bat" to compress the DATA directory into a PAK.

- Goldwave is an audio tool that can shrink and convert audio files for Wii compatibility.

What makes Goldwave especially useful is that it can batch convert audio files in subdirectories. Wii OpenBOR does not support stereo audio files. If you play a game PAK on OpenBOR Wii and you hear a lot of static instead of sound effects, it's likely the sound effect is in stereo and needs to be converted. Conversion to mono also shrinks the memory requirements of the PAK and can make an unplayable PAK playable. So you can take a PAK, "paxplode" it, convert the audio to mono through Goldwave, "packer" it back into a PAK and then have something that works and sounds fine.

- Wii OpenBOR will keep working until it runs out of memory.

What this means is that you could find a game, load it, play it for a long while, and then have it crash in one of the later/last levels because the Wii ran out of memory from loading new level assets. Bad news is this sucks, good news is that the engine usually remembers where it left off, so you can reload OpenBOR and that PAK, choose to load a save game, and pick up where you left off.

Here's the interesting thing about the Wii version of OpenBOR. It will only load into memory what is requested, but will never unload it from memory. So if you crash on level 10, the game will have in memory 10 levels of unique assets. But if you load a save from a fresh reboot, it will load level 10 and only know what's in level 10, and nothing prior.

There are programming triggers in the OpenBOR programming language that you can set to direct memory to dump assets from memory once dispatched to free up for new assets once they are no longer needed, but for some reason this does not work on Wii. In my experience playing with those unload from memory triggers, it made the memory issues worse. Would appreciate advice if I'm wrong in this assessment.

........

There's a literal ton of OpenBOR content out there. There's a lot of Beats of Rage palette/sound swap clone games, which are occassionally interesting, but there's also a lot of creative content too. I'm hoping to start a discussion on the PAKs that perform well on Wii.
 

Qaztab

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I'm not sure if these games are in RunningSnakes link, but they're a noteworthy mention as they're kind of new and playable on OpenBOR Wii:

Megaman Armada 0.1.4 - This is still being updated. It's simplistic Megaman levels with a boss battle at the end and the selling point is the huge character roster of 8-bit heroes you can play as. It's more of a platformer than a brawler which in of itself is pretty cool to see working in OpenBOR.

Mortal Kombat - Defenders of the Realm (Ver 1.1.0) - This is one of the newer Mortal Kombat PAKs and is pretty polished. Sound effects are in stereo, so you need to unpak and repak the WAV files from stereo to mono.

Golden Axe Myth - I got this off the OpenBOR official forums. Previously it was one of those EXE only PAKs. Heavily recommended. It's not quite Golden Axe 2 - Revenge of Death Adder, but it's in that spirit of update.

Golden Axe Remake [v1.4] (Build 6412) - Pretty sure I got this off the OpenBOR official forums as well. This is also one of those previously EXE only PAKs that was recompiled into a regular PAK. It does what it says it does, trying to be a remake of the original GA arcade game in OpenBOR. Very polished.

As great as OpenBOR is, one of the problems is it that's there's a quantity over quality reality with all the PAK releases. So there's a literal crap-ton of PAKs out there, but most of them are pretty meh at best.
 
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RunningSnakes

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TMNT Rescue Palooza 0.9.3 for wii i only found the demo version but i still have to try it
Justice League United [Ver._2.191] you should have it in your pack

I do not know if the Justice League United pak we currently have has the audio converted to make it completely playable.

It would be awesome if we could get several others to give everyone an idea of which paks truly are must play games. Ghosts'n Demons looks great but is unplayable since you cannot fire while kneeling. The 1.8.6a release of this game might fix the issue but good luck finding it.
 

matto21

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I do not know if the Justice League United pak we currently have has the audio converted to make it completely playable.

It would be awesome if we could get several others to give everyone an idea of which paks truly are must play games. Ghosts'n Demons looks great but is unplayable since you cannot fire while kneeling. The 1.8.6a release of this game might fix the issue but good luck finding it.
now i try my version of Ghosts'n Demons
 

matto21

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I do not know if the Justice League United pak we currently have has the audio converted to make it completely playable.

It would be awesome if we could get several others to give everyone an idea of which paks truly are must play games. Ghosts'n Demons looks great but is unplayable since you cannot fire while kneeling. The 1.8.6a release of this game might fix the issue but good luck finding it.
Justice League United what I have audio is perfect
the other version I have of Ghosts'n Demons doesn't work
 
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Dakangel

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A lot of Openbor games are horribly coded and unoptimized if any and are developed only with PC in mind nowadays despite the engine portability but with some patiente and effort they can be playable on other devices.

For example, i was able to run the TMNT rescue palooza game on a Dreamcast after all.
 
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Qaztab

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Justice League United what I have audio is perfect
the other version I have of Ghosts'n Demons doesn't work
Are you sure the audio is perfect? I definitely remember it having static hiss sounds. Might not have been for every sound effect, but it was there. File size of my PAK is 117,015 KB

I never managed to get Ghosts'n Demons to work. For that matter, I couldn't get any of the Contra PAKs to work correctly either.

Here's Turtles Palooza 0.93, Justice League 2.191, Thundercats - The Lost Eye of Thundera. All have WAV files converted to mono. Also included those 2 Golden Axe games(Golden Axe Remake, Golden Axe Myth), as they're kind of rare. If I hadn't been scouring the OpenBOR forums I wouldn't have known working versions of them existed for Wii.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/eitzpr4xz0l693t/wii+openbor+audio+converted+to+mono.7z/file

And I'll echo what Dakangel said. A lot of times the reasons PAKs don't run is because they're unoptimized. I think a big reason for that is most times people start with an existing PAK and edit it into their own thing. For example, Godzilla Ultraman Gamera is actually a modification of a Splatterhouse PAK. There's a pile of Splatterhouse sprites and variable names in the code and directories.

However.... the opposite is also true. I took a look at the code behind the He-Man PAK hoping to slim it down and it is incredibly optimized and efficiently coded. Scarily so.
 

Lostbhoy

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Are you sure the audio is perfect? I definitely remember it having static hiss sounds. Might not have been for every sound effect, but it was there. File size of my PAK is 117,015 KB

I never managed to get Ghosts'n Demons to work. For that matter, I couldn't get any of the Contra PAKs to work correctly either.

Here's Turtles Palooza 0.93, Justice League 2.191, Thundercats - The Lost Eye of Thundera. All have WAV files converted to mono. Also included those 2 Golden Axe games(Golden Axe Remake, Golden Axe Myth), as they're kind of rare. If I hadn't been scouring the OpenBOR forums I wouldn't have known working versions of them existed for Wii.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/eitzpr4xz0l693t/wii+openbor+audio+converted+to+mono.7z/file

And I'll echo what Dakangel said. A lot of times the reasons PAKs don't run is because they're unoptimized. I think a big reason for that is most times people start with an existing PAK and edit it into their own thing. For example, Godzilla Ultraman Gamera is actually a modification of a Splatterhouse PAK. There's a pile of Splatterhouse sprites and variable names in the code and directories.

However.... the opposite is also true. I took a look at the code behind the He-Man PAK hoping to slim it down and it is incredibly optimized and efficiently coded. Scarily so.
Thanks for the TMNTRP find and share, awesome game would love to have it on this but could never get it to load....fingers crossed!!

I also found myself a Dungeons and Dragons PAK of the old 80s cartoon! Seems to play well from what i tested if anyone wants to try it?

https://zvitor.com/projeto/cave.html
 
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Qaztab

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Thanks for the TMNTRP find and share, awesome game would love to have it on this but could never get it to load....fingers crossed!!

I also found myself a Dungeons and Dragons PAK of the old 80s cartoon! Seems to play well from what i tested if anyone wants to try it?

https://zvitor.com/projeto/cave.html
Ok, is the sound working correctly for you in that D&D game? I'm hearing lots of hissing and static.
 

matto21

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Are you sure the audio is perfect? I definitely remember it having static hiss sounds. Might not have been for every sound effect, but it was there. File size of my PAK is 117,015 KB

I never managed to get Ghosts'n Demons to work. For that matter, I couldn't get any of the Contra PAKs to work correctly either.

Here's Turtles Palooza 0.93, Justice League 2.191, Thundercats - The Lost Eye of Thundera. All have WAV files converted to mono. Also included those 2 Golden Axe games(Golden Axe Remake, Golden Axe Myth), as they're kind of rare. If I hadn't been scouring the OpenBOR forums I wouldn't have known working versions of them existed for Wii.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/eitzpr4xz0l693t/wii+openbor+audio+converted+to+mono.7z/file

And I'll echo what Dakangel said. A lot of times the reasons PAKs don't run is because they're unoptimized. I think a big reason for that is most times people start with an existing PAK and edit it into their own thing. For example, Godzilla Ultraman Gamera is actually a modification of a Splatterhouse PAK. There's a pile of Splatterhouse sprites and variable names in the code and directories.

However.... the opposite is also true. I took a look at the code behind the He-Man PAK hoping to slim it down and it is incredibly optimized and efficiently coded. Scarily so.
Justice League United between the two Roms, the difference is only in size
your rom

my rom

for me it's just a question of OpenBOR version
this is the proof

OpenBOR v.3.0 Build 6391

OpenBORPLUS v.4.0 Build 469
 
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Qaztab

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Ok, had to do some more testing. It looks like matto21's findings are correct. The 3.0 build has issues with the WAV files. I found this link from this forum which also documents that this has been a known issue and corroborates my original posts in this thread about needing to convert WAV files to get the sound to work correctly:

https://gbatemp.net/threads/new-ope...pro-controller-support-and-many-fixes.515128/

The 4.0 (5/2022) build seems to fix this. Took me a bit to figure it out because I was having sound issues with the DnD Animated PAK linked above, but it turned out that it was a save file issue between 3.0 and 4.0. I initially tried it in 3.0, saw the sound was hissing, and copied 4.0 into the same openBOR directory, which now I realize didn't work because 4.0 was loading the 3.0's save files for this PAK. So if you're upgrading from 3.0 to 4.0 and using the same directory structure, delete the files in the save file folder or you're likely to have the same issues I did. After I deleted the save files and loaded the PAK freshly new in 4.0 it was playing sounds correctly.

But with that in mind......

Still need to verify that 4.0 can go the distance without running out of memory, which was another issue with Wii OpenBOR I mentioned many posts up. Yes, it's playing these sounds correctly now, but the sound files are also larger too which is more memory overhead. Going to tinker with one of the later Godzilla Ultraman Gamera PAKs and see how it performs in 4.0.
 

mrmagicm

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Ok, had to do some more testing. It looks like matto21's findings are correct.
This is what I told you from the beginning that is was also a question of version but you didn't read it all ;-)
But I do think you are right too, optimizing the pak might make it work and many situation....I tested, I do have a Contra Pak that worked under wiiU so some paks of runningsnake have been "changed" from he original. There should be a link running snake did, with two link, the "tested" games and the non tested, It takes a very long time to test it all.....
 

Qaztab

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This is what I told you from the beginning that is was also a question of version but you didn't read it all ;-)
But I do think you are right too, optimizing the pak might make it work and many situation....I tested, I do have a Contra Pak that worked under wiiU so some paks of runningsnake have been "changed" from he original. There should be a link running snake did, with two link, the "tested" games and the non tested, It takes a very long time to test it all.....

Played with 4.0 a bit. Noticed that the screen settings are different from 3.0. There's two options in each: Stretch to Screen and Preserve Aspect Ratio. Each setting is different on my TV. Stretch to Screen in 3.0 fills my TV properly, in 4.0 it slightly over stretches it and I lose some of the game screen. Preserve Aspect Ratio in 3.0 looks too skinny and kind of wrong, but in 4.0 I suspect it's the actual proper aspect ratio.

Godzilla Ultraman Gamera (which I'll call GUG from here on out) is one of the most asset heavy PAKs out there, which is why I wanted to test an earlier 4th demo release of it in 4.0. The earlier versions of GUG have a game mode called "The Gauntlet", which is a single slow paced game level with *every* enemy in the game. So OpenBOR has to load *every* sprite and audio clip to memory to play this game mode. I could get this to crash in 4.0 like I could 3.0, but it would take much more extensive testing to determine how much better or worse this is in 3.0 vs 4.0 which I don't really want to spend time doing. :)

I did notice that 4.0 seemed to have a slight performance improvement over 3.0. The version of GUG I was using I knew would have frame rate issues in the second level. 4.0 had those issues but it didn't seem to drop the frame rate as much as 3.0. Would really need to do more testing to see how significant it is.

Summary, memory is still very much an issue with OpenBOR on Wii. That version of GUG Lite I passed out is pretty much the only way you can play that PAK from beginning to end. For other very large PAKs with similar sprite loads I would definitely recommend an optimized PAK over the official. Yeah, you can get it to load, but can you actually finish the game in one sitting without it crashing?
 
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