Hacking Nintendont - wiimote & nunchuck support discussions

[Troopage]

After trying the test config I aggree that + and - are more usefull as playable buttons than for changing configs and start. In this case I will go with useability over consistancy. Slightly changed from what you are discussing.
1=Start (easier to get to)
2=Config change (leaves 1 for a config still pressing the same way)
Home=Exit (recessed button remains consistant with all bluetooth configurations do not want this one pressed by mistake)

A and B wont be used for configurations (differances in the buttons, they will be used some thing else later).

Okay, I understand why you want to keep HOME as exiting. Any idea what to use instead of A & B? Would it be better to use - & + instead?

This group spent a lot of time discussing the config you wanted and WHY it was the best choice. Now it seems like your just making unthought out changes. forgetting about games that need real analog values for the cStick and triggers, Thinking that pressed or not pressed is good enough.

I have thought about the real analog values! I'm not trying to get everyone to think my config is the best choice, but for me it is better suited for the games I play. I know it isn't for everybody, but I'm glad I have it. It's cool if you don't want to include it in the next beta, because I have the test.dol still and I am perfectly happy with it.

This is why I said it wont work well. In just about all your configs your talking about using the dpad as the cstick This dosent work at all in games that use the cStick as a joystick not as camera control. for things like aiming if you overshoot your target forget going back.

It actually works very well, and I got used to the high sensitivity after a while. I know it isn't great for all games, but I think it's better than NC tilt. Aiming in a FPS is still counts as camera control, right?

That's true that's why i was sceptical about it before as i said to Trooperz... However i think that naggers IR/FPS config is ideal for those games that require precise FPS & TPS aiming as it handily beats real GC cstick in accuracy and is ''analog''. For the rest of the games (3d platformers, racers, sports etc), the other newly suggested configs (naggers in my case) are pretty comfortable and playable after testing. I think Trooperz's suggestion was very good in the end, along with the L1/2, R1/2 one.

So all genres are covered in the end

FPS & TPS games are definitely better when using FPS 2. I'm not trying to make everyone use my config for everything!

Let me know what changes to make to my config pictures, Howard.

 

[Howard]

Those who donated should have recieved

Nintendont Nunchuck Beta 14
Based on 2.208

Made
2 button = change the configuration
1 button = start
the functions that were on 1 and 2 are moved to + and -

Howards general config
A=A B=B Z=Z +=X -=Y Dpad=Standard
C not pressed L R tilt tied to L R analog triggers.
C pressed tilt control the cStick

AbdallahTerro general config
A=A B=B C=X Z=Y -=Z +=R Dpad=Standard

config asked for by naggers
A=A
C not pressed U=Z D=B R=X L=Y B=L Z=R
C pressed Dpad=Standard B=R1/2 Z=L1/2 tilt controls cStick

racing games that use AnalogR and AnalogL for gas and break
A=A B=B Z=Z +=X -=Y Dpad=Standard
C not pressed backwards forward tilt tied to L R analog triggers.
C pressed tilt control the cStick

racing games that require A held for gas
A=Z B=B Z=A +=X -=Y Dpad=Standard
C not pressed L R tilt tied to L R analog triggers.
C pressed tilt control the cStick

FPS using IR as cStick
A=A B=B Z=Z +=X -=Y Dpad=Standard
L R tilt tied to L R analog triggers.
IR controls the cStick

FPS using IR as cStick alt based on naggers
A=A B=L Z=R +=R1/2 -=L1/2
C not pressed U=Z D=B R=X L=Y
C pressed Dpad=Standard, L R tilt tied to L R analog triggers.
IR controls the cStick

 

[VinsCool]

Thanks Howard I will give it a test right now.
After a bit of testing, Naggers (2 + right) should still have start mapped to plus button. It is weird and unconfortable to press start with the 1 button.

 

[AbdallahTerro]

great news, practicality beating consistency
1. Anyone using FPS using IR as cStick config (not based on naggers)? I believe troop's config should replace this one cause I really like it.
2. now that fps2 has 1/2 values tied to + & - we can compare this to c&Z c&B in nagger's and use the better way in both
3. no objections about start and exit buttons but imo keeping home=exit is better and easier to remember, also if exit is 1 or 2 it will be hit by mistake during config selection.
4. Anyone ever used the default config ?

 

[VinsCool]

great news, practicality beating consistency
1. Anyone using FPS using IR as cStick config (not based on naggers)? I believe troop's config should replace this one cause I really like it.
2. now that fps2 has 1/2 values tied to + & - we can compare this to c&Z c&B in nagger's and use the better way in both
3. no objections about start and exit buttons but imo keeping home=exit is better and easier to remember, also if exit is 1 or 2 it will be hit by mistake during config selection.
4. Anyone ever used the default config ?

never used the default confing. I think naggers should be the default one if it still has start mapped to plus, that would be even better

 

[AbdallahTerro]

+ button is a game button now, why kill its function by mapping it to start, what's hard about pressing 1
I can understand if you want "home" as start though

 

[Howard]

All Wiimote + nunchuck configs will have the same button mappings for start and config change. After trying booth lets hear feedback from everyone as to which is better and WHY.


Give your reasons WHY the button mapping in troops is better than the mappings we have. X and Y on the same button with a shift seems awkward. other thigs concern me as well. I would rather see a bongo config instead.

Troopage The first change we need to the graphics is to add the name of the config to it so when looking at the pic we know which one it is.

 

[AbdallahTerro]

ok my comments and explanation:
concerning the default config the right/left nunchuck tilt for L and R should be used with c held, in order to get rid of unneeded input during the game
second troops config allows the use of L-stick, smooth c-stick for camera using dpad right away and dpad is also available with c held. the buttons are all at the fingertips,
I like pressing + - more than down or left, for instance if you try mario football you will find out how hard it is to control using most configs including the nagger's
though the X/Y shifting sound awkward it's easy to get used to and hardly a problem
one more thing using c to modify 1/2 press for R & L should not be used in configs where c+tilt controls the camera

 

[VinsCool]

Oh got it Thanks for clarifications

 

[Troopage]

After a bit of testing, Naggers (2 + right) should still have start mapped to plus button. It is weird and unconfortable to press start with the 1 button.

I still think that START should be mapped to HOME. How about Exit as HOME+1? It really is stupid having START as 1; it should be up there with the rest of the gameplay buttons. At least with this new suggestion it is somewhat consistent.

great news, practicality beating consistency
1. Anyone using FPS using IR as cStick config (not based on naggers)? I believe troop's config should replace this one cause I really like it.
2. now that fps2 has 1/2 values tied to + & - we can compare this to c&Z c&B in nagger's and use the better way in both
3. no objections about start and exit buttons but imo keeping home=exit is better and easier to remember, also if exit is 1 or 2 it will be hit by mistake during config selection.
4. Anyone ever used the default config ?

Yeah practicality is more important.
1. I'm not using it. If you want to have my config there, then by all means have it there.
2. Yeah, Maybe half-pressure should be + & - on naggers.
3. Yeah, like I said above, I think that Exit should be HOME+1, and that we should have HOME on it own as START. No accidental inputs and START would be up there with the rest of the gameplay buttons.
4. I'm not using it currently, but if it gets changed around a bit like I've suggested before an you've suggested below, then I will use it.

never used the default confing. I think naggers should be the default one if it still has start mapped to plus, that would be even better

Iirc, Howard said that default is staying as default. It has the labels between the GC controller and wiimote as close as possible so that newcomers to the beta and future public release aren't confused. I think that default should be changed to what I suggested in my graphic, though, as NC tilt could be a turnoff to newbies.

+ button is a game button now, why kill its function by mapping it to start, what's hard about pressing 1
I can understand if you want "home" as start though

Pressing 1 isn't difficult, but sometimes you need quicker access to the START menu, for map, inventory, or whatever, so at least you understand. Lol

All Wiimote + nunchuck configs will have the same button mappings for start and config change. After trying booth lets hear feedback from everyone as to which is better and WHY.
Give your reasons WHY the button mapping in troops is better than the mappings we have. X and Y on the same button with a shift seems awkward. other thigs concern me as well. I would rather see a bongo config instead.

It sounds like you haven't tried my config yet. X and Y on the same button with a shift works very well. It isn't a problem because I don't think there are any GC games that require you to press both at the same time because that would have been awkward on the GC controller.

Troopage The first change we need to the graphics is to add the name of the config to it so when looking at the pic we know which one it is.

Okay. The pics will be changed in a bit.

ok my comments and explanation:
concerning the default config the right/left nunchuck tilt for L and R should be used with c held, in order to get rid of unneeded input during the game

Exactly as I suggested in my graphic.

second troops config allows the use of L-stick, smooth c-stick for camera using dpad right away and dpad is also available with c held. the buttons are all at the fingertips,
I like pressing + - more than down or left, for instance if you try mario football you will find out how hard it is to control using most configs including the nagger's
though the X/Y shifting sound awkward it's easy to get used to and hardly a problem

Thank you, Abz! I think my config is better in some games, too.
And as we both have stated, X/Y shift really isn't an issue.

one more thing using c to modify 1/2 press for R & L should not be used in configs where c+tilt controls the camera

Well that's just common sense. Configs that use c+tilt controls for the camera should have been changed like in my graphics.

Oh got it Thanks for clarifications

I'm glad things are clearer to you now.

 

[nakata6790]

A huge and sincere thank you to Howard and Abz for giving us the latest beta!
However, reading the changelog above (i will try beta14 when my TV is unoccupied) i am happy but i have two major red flags.

config asked for by naggers
A=A
C not pressed U=Z D=B R=X L=Y B=L Z=R
C pressed Dpad=Standard B=R1/2 Z=L1/2 tilt controls cStick

Well, that is exactly the same naggers as in beta 13. What was asked for beta 14 naggers was c pressed dpad=cstick and either NC tilt = GC dpad or - pressed makes wiimote dpad as GC dpad and = pressed makes wimote dpad return to previous behaviour (ie Z,X,Y,B when c not pressed and cstick when c pressed). But anyway this is not a biggie as naggers was always very good, it's just that suggested beta14 naggers would be even better, had underwent the changes asked for.

FPS using IR as cStick alt based on naggers
A=A B=L Z=R +=R1/2 -=L1/2
C not pressed U=Z D=B R=X L=Y
C pressed Dpad=Standard, L R tilt tied to L R analog triggers.
IR controls the cStick

That is also the same as beta 13 and all recent ones. The big issue with this otherwise perfect config remains. The bolded offers nothing but unwanted inputs on FPS2... I have explained why in detail at least 4 times and you know i am someone who plays thoroughly his games. What is more, if L1/2 and R1/2 were actually needed in GC FPS you could easily map them either to c&B, c&Z like naggers or to - and + buttons. So it is not like we do not have perfectly workable solutions, really do not know why the insistency on the only thing blemising this otherwise perfect GC FPS config. E

Now don't get me wrong i am extremely enthusiastic and thankful for the beta i just cannot understand some decisions.

==EDIT==
Tried beta 14, naggers IR already has - and + as L1/2, R1/2 so only thing left is take out NC tilt.
Also, this is weird but can we please go back to the small deadzone of beta 5?
This one: http://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendo...upport-discussions.371356/page-9#post-5123882

Those who donated should have recieved

Nintendont Nunchuck Beta 5
Based on 2.170

IR x axis movement is about 30% faster.

IR xaxis skips over a dead zone +/- 8 around the center. Because this is trying to skip something that could be different in each game we need to test it in as many games as possable ( or until we find one it dosent work in ) Make sure you can still face directly forward. Make sure that you can still point to all positions to the left and right of center. Make sure movement dosent drift around the center. Make sure movement doesnt speed up around the center.

When using tilt for left & right triggers reduced the right tilt required for fully pressed right trigger.

A bunch of internal changes because 2.170 and 2.169 booth broke nunchuck

 

[Troopage]

Now don't get me wrong i am extremely enthusiastic and thankful for the beta i just cannot understand some decisions.

I feel the exact same way.

 

[VinsCool]

I feel the exact same way.

Same for me also

 

[AbdallahTerro]

I like the nagger's with wiimote dpad used for camera while c is pressed too, even if gc-dpad is missing
I mean, is GC-Dpad useful or crucial in any game? All the games I tested use the L-stick for selection and menu stuff too, so I don't see nagger's without gc-dpad a biggie
Moreover not a single config will be universal, that's why we have many configs, the point should be that every config should be fun and easy and practical to use whenever needed

 

[Troopage]

I like the nagger's with wiimote dpad used for camera while c is pressed too, even if gc-dpad is missing
I mean, is GC-Dpad useful or crucial in any game? All the games I tested use the L-stick for selection and menu stuff too, so I don't see nagger's without gc-dpad a biggie
Moreover not a single config will be universal, that's why we have many configs, the point should be that every config should be fun and easy and practical to use whenever needed

Amen.

 

[nakata6790]

I like the nagger's with wiimote dpad used for camera while c is pressed too, even if gc-dpad is missing
I mean, is GC-Dpad useful or crucial in any game? All the games I tested use the L-stick for selection and menu stuff too, so I don't see nagger's without gc-dpad a biggie
Moreover not a single config will be universal, that's why we have many configs, the point should be that every config should be fun and easy and practical to use whenever needed

I like c & dpad as cstick better too, but yes the GC dpad IS needed. Why should we miss buttons? In Star Wars Rogue Squadron games for example dpad is vitally used for squad commands. In many games it is used a item hotkeys or equipment or map etc.
Why should we cripple naggers for no reason at all when it works for 90% of the games?

Also i tried beta 14, naggers IR/FPS2 already has - and + as L1/2, R1/2 so only thing left is take out NC tilt.
Also, this is weird but can we please go back to the small IR deadzone of beta 5/6?
This one: http://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendo...upport-discussions.371356/page-9#post-5123882

Those who donated should have recieved

Nintendont Nunchuck Beta 5
Based on 2.170

IR x axis movement is about 30% faster.

IR xaxis skips over a dead zone +/- 8 around the center. Because this is trying to skip something that could be different in each game we need to test it in as many games as possable ( or until we find one it dosent work in ) Make sure you can still face directly forward. Make sure that you can still point to all positions to the left and right of center. Make sure movement dosent drift around the center. Make sure movement doesnt speed up around the center.

When using tilt for left & right triggers reduced the right tilt required for fully pressed right trigger.

A bunch of internal changes because 2.170 and 2.169 booth broke nunchuck

The issue with that if you remember was only Die Hard Vendetta, but i have since found a way to make DHV work with even the smallest deadzone. Beta 5 IR was faster and more responsive than later ones, so now that the DHV issue is solved we can have the superior smaller IR deadzone back.






===============================









So to summarize and be specific so that Howard & Abz know:

naggers: please make c & dpad act as cstick and c & tilt act as GC dpad. - button is L1/2 and + button is R1/2
FPS2: please remove NC tilt for GC L/R and restore IR deadzone of beta 5 (see above).

 

[Troopage]

Okay, here are the the new graphics. To exit back to loader, Press HOME & 2 at the same time.

Spoiler

I really hope we make all of this happen!

 

[Howard]

Home = Exit This will not be changed. Even if their is a reason for doing it in wiimote + nunchuch when a user goes from using nunchuck to using a different controller if they press home expecting it to do something other than exit and it exits they will be "unhappy".

Right now what I need is feed back about which is better "+ and -" or "1 and 2" being start and change layout with the other 2 buttons useable as playable buttons. It will be the same accross all nunchusk configurations. I had one tester email me their opinion because they didnt want to get beat up on by a vocal few that have a different opinion. You can ask questions but everyone is intitled to their own opinion. Keep it nice. Weather it stay changed or goes back the way it was will determine what buttons are available for use in the configs. It needs to be decided before making other changes.

The config sugestions presented here by testers are just that, their sugestions. Some may be great and get included. Some may be good and a modifyed version of it gets included and some may not get included at all. Complaining that a particular sugestion didnt get included in a particular beta and then complaining that another sugestion from the same post is bad is just wrong. Each sugestion get looked at individually.

dpad as cStick has issues (but very useable in some games). tilt as dpad will also have issues. dpad as cStick will be added to some configs probably in a very different way that what what has been sugested here. tilt as dpad I dont know about yet.

Making overly complex configs is something I am very opposed to. lets try and keep them simple.

I disagree with the default config the right/left nunchuck tilt for L and R should be used with c held, in order to get rid of unneeded input during the game. I find I use tilt without thinking about it. Making it a shift would break the config for those games whare it is usefull. As many controls as possable should be available without shifting.




Dropping grenades at you feet is unacceptable. I am aware of this. Their are also some fps games that require the full analog motion of the triggers. I dont want to take that functionallity away and break the config for those games. What we will probably end up with is a way to have booth.

 

[VinsCool]

I howard after yesterday's clarifications, I'm fine with current config

 

[Troopage]

Home = Exit This will not be changed. Even if their is a reason for doing it in wiimote + nunchuch when a user goes from using nunchuck to using a different controller if they press home expecting it to do something other than exit and it exits they will be "unhappy".

I didn't think of that. I personally don't use any other controller for GC games except for wiimote & NC, so I didn't think of accidental inputs the other way around.
Still, you'd have to be an idiot to make that kind of mistake since there aren't any other controllers like the wiimote & NC to confuse with.

Right now what I need is feed back about which is better "+ and -" or "1 and 2" being start and change layout with the other 2 buttons useable as playable buttons. It will be the same accross all nunchusk configurations.

I'd prefer to keep + & - as gameplay buttons than 1 & 2.

I had one tester email me their opinion because they didnt want to get beat up on by a vocal few that have a different opinion. You can ask questions but everyone is intitled to their own opinion. Keep it nice. Weather it stay changed or goes back the way it was will determine what buttons are available for use in the configs. It needs to be decided before making other changes.

I want to keep things nice, too. I didn't mean to make anyone feel like they would get beat up for their opinion.

The config sugestions presented here by testers are just that, their sugestions. Some may be great and get included. Some may be good and a modifyed version of it gets included and some may not get included at all. Complaining that a particular sugestion didnt get included in a particular beta and then complaining that another sugestion from the same post is bad is just wrong. Each sugestion get looked at individually.

Yup. I've been supportive of everyone's suggestions.

dpad as cStick has issues (but very useable in some games). tilt as dpad will also have issues. dpad as cStick will be added to some configs probably in a very different way that what what has been sugested here. tilt as dpad I dont know about yet

Okay. I'm glad you are working on it.

Making overly complex configs is something I am very opposed to. lets try and keep them simple.

I'l try.

I disagree with the default config the right/left nunchuck tilt for L and R should be used with c held, in order to get rid of unneeded input during the game. I find I use tilt without thinking about it. Making it a shift would break the config for those games whare it is usefull. As many controls as possable should be available without shifting.

Okay. It's your config so it's entirely your call, and I'm fine with it.

Dropping grenades at you feet is unacceptable. I am aware of this. Their are also some fps games that require the full analog motion of the triggers. I dont want to take that functionallity away and break the config for those games. What we will probably end up with is a way to have booth.

Okay, I understand and I'm sure nakata does too. Just do your best as usual, Howard.