Hardware N3DS NAND backup possible, I hope.

[Deleted User]

You can bypass the SD card, and connect the wires from the NAND directly to the pins on a reader

So you can have NAND --> micro usb female
and microusb male --> correct SD reader pins

Don't you use your common sense on me! (For real though, thanks. )

 

[kevinwang]

So after testing out a couple different configurations, card readers and various pins this has been the pinout that works (not just for me anymore! )

There may be other motherboards as time goes on that look different, so please check before you do anything. Also this is for educational purposes only and you do so at your own risk. It's taken me a couple hours to get it down but I hope it works for you as well to keep your SysNAND backed up manually or you need to restore an image because it somehow got accidentally updated .

This is for the N3DS XL, just a note but the mobo has the lettering RED-CPU-01.
View attachment 17927

This is an alternate location on the other side of the board for CLK, it's a test point so it's a large pad to solder to and easier to access.

View attachment 17926

A ground point that's easy enough to access on the reverse side. There are a lot of them as the board uses a ground pour so you can easily hunt around for one.
View attachment 15698

Do not use this area (the RED selected area) for a GND point because of the object in blue.
View attachment 18624

Spoiler: why shouldn't I use this area for GND?

You can't use the ground near the power connector or on it unfortunately
If you check around it, it actually goes though an inductor, or transformer, but I am voting it's being used an inductor, before getting to the ground plane. That adds a little resistance to it and I don't think the inductor is charging since there is no power at the connector.

Inductors start off as a open circuit until their magnetic fields are charged and stabilized which then it acts as a short. The reason for the inductor is to help handle changes in current, since the wall supply is a switching supply the inductor here helps stabilize the switching noise from the charger.

P.S. if you have a good multimeter you can check the resistance of the inductor from other points on the GND plane and there should be a bit of difference.

This is for the N3DS (nonXL), just a note but the mobo has the lettering KTR-CPU-01.
View attachment 18124

This is an alternate test point on the other side of the board for CLK for the N3DS.
View attachment 18125


If you are on Windows here is a small guide for backing up the system eMMC using Win32DiskImager.


Using the TekRepublic TUC-300 Reader I was still hitting around 6MB/s with just one DAT line and 21MB/s using all the DAT lines. Please let me know of any error or problems in any of my diagrams, this was fun to figure out. I'll keep you updated


Alright so I've tested it fully (backups and writes) with many systems now of, both of my own and other members here, I can safely say this works well with both the Samsung and Toshiba eMMC.

I updated to 9.5 and then restored my backup of 9.0. I posted a couple images on Page 3 post #60.

Please note the N3DS eMMC does not work in every card reader, it can be hit or miss and this list is not exact but these are known to work with the 3DS and N3DS.

For working card readers I have had good success with the:
Anker® USB 3.0 (68UNMCRD-B2U) : Realtek RTS5306
TekRepublic TUC-300 : Realtek RTS5307

Some other card readers that use the same chipset /controller but have not been tested although should work:
Plugable USB3-FLASH3 -
SIIG JU-MR0E12-S1-
Startech FCREADMICRO3 -

Other card readers that work
SanDisk SDDR-121-A11M : GL827
Transcend P8 TS-RDP8K : ALCOR AU6476 (Thank you Gamerquest1 and zchtoy)
Anker® USB 3.0 4-Slot Card Reader (A7612) : RT5301 (Ava)

Card reader chipsets known not to work on N3DS with the Samsung eMMC, but may still work on one with the Toshiba and the 3DS/XL eMMC:
GL3220
GL3233
GL834

If anyone has any other card readers they have used with success on both the N3DS Toshiba and Samsung eMMC please let me know so I can add them to the list. Thank you!

A little bit more about the card readers I have tested and what works and what doesn't!

Spoiler: SD Card Reader Info

Okay so here are the card reader controller, makes well enough sense why the Tek-Republic and Anker ones work as they use basically Identical controllers. I wonder what my old Transend TS-RDP5K used to use. Can't find much about the Realtek controllers unfortunately but there are a couple other ones out there that use it from what I have seen. I will be updating as I get / test more that I have access to, also will be adding info from USBDeview v2.41 about each card reader.

Anker® USB 3.0 (68UNMCRD-B2U) : Realtek RTS5306 : Works as decently as the Tek one does, no issues at all on reading or writing

Spoiler: Anker® USB 3.0 (68UNMCRD-B2U)

TekRepublic TUC-300 :Realtek RTS5307 : Works well for me on the 3DS/XL and N3DSXL, my go to reader.

Spoiler: TekRepublic TUC-300

Anker® USB 3.0 4-Slot Card Reader (A7612) : RT5301 :Works well for me on the 3DS/XL and N3DSXL

Spoiler: Anker Card Reader (A7612)

View attachment 18258

Transcend TS-RDP5K : GL834 Product Info : Sadly I can't get this new one to work for the N3DS but still works fine on my 3DS XL

Spoiler: Transcend TS-RDP5K

Transcend TS-RDF5K (USB 3.0) : GL3233 Product Info : Same story as above

Spoiler: Transcend TS-RDF5K (USB 3.0)

SanDisk SDDR-121-A11M : GL827 Datasheet : I've played around with this did some reads and writes to the 3DS/XL and N3DSXL works but it's a microSD reader, hard to use without an adapter or soldering directly to it.

Spoiler: SanDisk SDDR-121-A11M

So that's the card readers I have and the information I have on them currently. Feel free to chime in with what works for you and what doesn't. As the N3DS eMMC seems to be pickier but not all controllers are made equally and who knows how the firmware on them is. I will add more about them and info

Side Note: Not exactly sure but SIIG, StarTek, and Plugable all make card readers that look just like the TekRepublic one.

Size info for the eMMC's
Samsung 1.21 GB (1,300,234,240 bytes)
Toshiba = 1.84 GB (1,979,711,488 bytes)

A possible way to check if your eMMC image was any good is to look at it with a Hex Editor, I am sure there are better methods though, but this has worked for me. Also as others have said, booting the dump in emuNAND is a good way to check its validity.

View attachment 17928

Thank you for taking the time to check this out and if you have any questions or comments please ask, I'll do my best to help!


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spoiler: Old Pin map

This is the old Image incase someone finds it any easier to see
View attachment 15783

Spoiler: Original Post

So I know I posted this in a different thread but I decided I would make a new thread for any input and keeping a record about anything I or someone else figures out.

I've tested the 12 pins around the eMMC both front and back also, the US black N3DS XL I have doesn't use a Samsung eMMC. If anyone knows something about eMMC logic that would be great please get in touch with me.

So I'm pretty sure I've found the DAT 0/1/2/3, as they were pretty obvious just don't know which is which and a couple lines that are definitely clocks. There is a small spike in one of the lines during the clock start up and I wonder if it's the CMD but again i don't have much knowledge on eMMC logic.

I am thinking I am going to utilize my old 3DS and look at that data to give me an idea what each line should look like on system boot up.

It's not very hard to get the N3DS XL into everyone's favorite blue screen of error, hehe.

Also some pretty pictures
PS. - Please ignore the Data part on the top I was playing around with protocol analyzers. Also sorry about the tiny letter and messed up order in the logic analyzer windows.

View attachment 15676 View attachment 15677 View attachment 15678
View attachment 15679 View attachment 15680

This is the the pin testing points that I originally used:
View attachment 15784

I tried to dump the NAND from my new 3DS XL but it's failed. My 3DS XL is blue screen now. I didn't format the NAND even I couldn't see the letter of NAND in my computer. I am thinking is it any possible to write the data to NAND during the driver installation? May I avoid the problem if I switch the SD card to "lock"?

 

[kelroy]

I tried to dump the NAND from my new 3DS XL but it's failed. My 3DS XL is blue screen now. I didn't format the NAND even I couldn't see the letter of NAND in my computer. I am thinking is it any possible to write the data to NAND during the driver installation? May I avoid the problem if I switch the SD card to "lock"?

If you press cancel when you see the "new drive message", it should be ok.

Put a photo of your blue screen.

 

[kevinwang]

If you press cancel when you see the "new drive message", it should be ok.

Put a photo of your blue screen.

Just like I said, I even didn't see "new driver message". My PC only installed the driver of card reader, that is. I removed the wires from motherboard, put motherboard back and hit the power button and then the bottom screen turned blue and displayed:

BOOTROM 8046 ERRCODE: 00F800FE 00000000 00000000 00000400 00000000

 

[kelroy]

Just like I said, I even didn't see "new driver message". My PC only installed the driver of card reader, that is. I removed the wires from motherboard, put motherboard back and hit the power button and then the bottom screen turned blue and displayed:

BOOTROM 8046 ERRCODE: 00F800FE 00000000 00000000 00000400 00000000

So the problem its the next:

You got some wire with a bad conexion, and maybe with the movement it gets out the pad. That error happends when you put some of the data0-cmd or clk pin to GND or you put inside a eletronic noise enougth to make the original signal unreadeable for the n3ds/3ds system.

Sorry for the delay i was a few busy, now i am free so make me the questions you need.

 

[kevinwang]

So the problem its the next:

You got some wire with a bad conexion, and maybe with the movement it gets out the pad. That error happends when you put some of the data0-cmd or clk pin to GND or you put inside a eletronic noise enougth to make the original signal unreadeable for the n3ds/3ds system.

Sorry for the delay i was a few busy, now i am free so make me the questions you need.

My question is if I "lock" the SD card, can I avoid the problem? I mean the NADN won't be writen the data if I lock the SD card,right? I only want to backup me NAND and try to downgrade the firmware. Thanks.

 

[kelroy]

My question is if I "lock" the SD card, can I avoid the problem? I mean the NADN won't be writen the data if I lock the SD card,right? I only want to backup me NAND and try to downgrade the firmware. Thanks.

Yes, if you do that the computer will cannot acces to your SD. But i dont know if the win32diskimager can read the Nand data with the sd on the lock position. Just try it, dont worry on lock position the worst problem will be just a "no permision to access" message on windows promt.

 

[mitroux]

can the rasbery pi be use to dump the N3DSXl nand?
i tried to buy one from the usb card reader from amazon , but there is no chipping to my country

 

[Deleted User]

Anybody know a good guide on how to properly solder for somebody who hasn't before? Never used a soldering iron before, so I want to at least make sure I don't melt my 3DS (or, you know, burn myself).

 

[mashers]

My n3DS is being NAND modded ATM, and I have just ordered the Plugable USB3-FLASH3. I'll report back on whether it worked once I get it and my 3DS back.

 

[N64]

Anybody know a good guide on how to properly solder for somebody who hasn't before? Never used a soldering iron before, so I want to at least make sure I don't melt my 3DS (or, you know, burn myself).

i'd suggest getting one of the SMD practice kits on ebay/amazon before even thinking about soldering on your 3DS, unless you've got an unlimited supply of cash and don't mind replacing the 3DS when it gets messed up.

or simply reach out to one of the few guys that offers modding services here for a reasonable fee and get it done... a much safer option than trying it yourself.

 

[Deleted User]

i'd suggest getting one of the SMD practice kits on ebay/amazon before even thinking about soldering on your 3DS, unless you've got an unlimited supply of cash and don't mind replacing the 3DS when it gets messed up.

or simply reach out to one of the few guys that offers modding services here for a reasonable fee and get it done... a much safer option than trying it yourself.

SAFETY BE DAMNED! *sounds of arc welding*

I like learning how to do things, so I honestly tweak, code, and break stuff more than I actually game with the N3DS. I'm OK with taking the risk after some prep.

 

[N64]

SAFETY BE DAMNED! *sounds of arc welding*

I like learning how to do things, so I honestly tweak, code, and break stuff more than I actually game with the N3DS. I'm OK with taking the risk after some prep.

then all you need is a little practice on some cheap boards (old phones work great for this) and you're set!

 

[Deleted User]

then all you need is a little practice on some cheap boards (old phones work great for this) and you're set!

I have the NAND backup from when I downgraded my N3DS, so I think for now I'll practice soldering on other projects and then I will perform the hardmod if I need to restore.

 

[EmceeKerser]

I have the NAND backup from when I downgraded my N3DS, so I think for now I'll practice soldering on other projects and then I will perform the hardmod if I need to restore.

Why do you need to hardmod? Did you brick?

 

[cooroxd]

My home button started failing on my N3ds so I sent it to nintendo to get it fix today. When 10.4 update comes out this month, I think they'll update before shipping it back. Before shipping it to nintendo for repairs, I used gateway and made 9.2 firmware Nand.bin backup and also updated to 10.3 and get rid of browserhax. After I receive my n3ds, how would I go about modding in order to downgrade from 10.4 back to 9.2 (if I'm not lucky)? What are the steps?

 

[Deleted User]

Why do you need to hardmod? Did you brick?

I don't need the hardmod, the point was that I am not very familiar with soldering so I was going to wait until I mess up and then install the hardmod. That way I can make sure I am familiar with how to cleanly install the soldering joints required when I do it.

 

[AlbertoSONIC]

What happens if I use dat0 dat1 and dat2, without dat3?

 

[EmceeKerser]

I don't need the hardmod, the point was that I am not very familiar with soldering so I was going to wait until I mess up and then install the hardmod. That way I can make sure I am familiar with how to cleanly install the soldering joints required when I do it.

Ah ok, I was just gonna ask why you werent just downgrading from 10.3 haha

 

[AlbertoSONIC]

Ok I did the hardmod with 1 dat wire only. The hardmod doesn't work, the blue screen doesn't show up... I have a multimeter, can I use it to check if the mod is fine or if I have to resolder?