LulzSec is done

[Assax]

Breaking and entering is a crime indeed. That is not what I am talking about. The very fact that Lulzsec broke the lock is indeed wrong. However, the argument that this makes them as bad as the robbers is silly. They did not do anything they did for the right reasons, but their reasons weren't wrong either. The other thing is that this is legal grey area. The law isn't as well defined as physical burglary.

@Guild: No problem. I'm glad to see you doing your duty. I'll happily edit out any OT content if asked.

As much as I agree with you about LulzSec etc. I'm trying not to be biased by my own opinion and think that talking about the law does not always makes sense.
Many things in the law are flawed in my opinion, things like what LulzSec have done should rather be discussed on the base of common sense.
Written law cannot be applied to everything neatly, I think thats the case here.

 

[retKHAAAN]

I'd have to agree with Densetsu9000. I believe stealing user names, passwords, and credit card info is on the same level as the "violation" (since the R word is censored...) of my wife and child...

This is getting out of hand...

 

[granville]

I was more or less reffering to granville because he said if people like this would not exist then we would not need a kick in the ass to be more aware etc etc.
Obviously I would blame the lockpicker as well, but the ones who did more damage were the burglars.

Like someone said, it was a needed evil in order to improve our awareness.
Its a shock to anyone whose files were leaked but people need that in order to start doing something about it nowadays.

Im not even arguing that what they have done did harm people or not, it obviously did, I'm just saying that without LulzSec nobody would even care about all those security flaws.
Maybe you're right and my statement is not totally in place but how else do you get people to change bad things?

If anything changed people's behaviour then it was something bad and shocking that affected many in a negative way in order to lead to major change.

The issue i have with this logic is that without groups like LulzSec, who is to say such breaches would have happened at all? Not saying they wouldn't have, but i don't see this breach as any different than any other breach- it's still your information being stolen and spread out over the internet for anyone to have their way with it (regardless of the "reasoning" behind such a breach, it's still stealing). I would never consider theft a necessary evil when it shouldn't happen at all. What LulzSec did may more inspire other hackers to commit malicious acts than propel companies into improving security. That would be a major backfiring of that logic if you ask me.

I'm afraid that my messages are a bit unclear on something- i am NOT in support of companies who have lax security by any means. So let that statement be clear. But i do however put more blame on the perpetrator for being the source of needing good security in the first place.

I also don't think them giving away the data to other thieves makes it any less heinous of a crime. If i break into someone's house, steal their stuff, and give it away for free, i'm still going to be tried under the same crimes had i kept the stuff for myself or sold it. That doesn't make me innocent.

Posting house addresses online and telling people to go steal from them is not funny and is definitely evil and wrong.

As a side note, i can't remember the last time i've ever seriously gotten into a heated discussion like this before.

 

[Sterling]

@Densetsu: I still don't get these two comparisons. Of course robbers would be in the wrong. They take your valuables and sell them to people who don't own them. Lulzsec did not take your valuables. Lulzsec did not sell to the highest bidder. Lulzsec gave you ample warning. It's like looking up your address on google and telling the people who want to rob that there is an open house sign.

I remember reading somewhere about someone anonymously posting on Craigslist that there was a house offering everything for free. He posted the address of a random house and people came and basically looted it because someone said everything was up for grabs, and the owner came home to find it had been ransacked. I don't see how that is amusing, and I don't see how what lulzsec did was any different.

That's quite a pickle that guy had. I don't think that's amusing either. That was indeed inconsiderate. Question though, was the door locked?

@Granville: We are not arguing that the reasons were sound, or right. What we are debating though is that there are much more talented groups out there that do this stuff for a living. People who made every cent they have by computer fraud and identity theft. They are out there, and they strike swiftly and silently. At the worst, Lulzsec enabled these people. To be fair though, if these people wanted to get the information, they could have gotten it with ease.

 

[Assax]

The issue i have with this logic is that without groups like LulzSec, who is to say such breaches would have happened at all? Not saying they wouldn't have, but i don't see this breach as any different than any other breach- it's still your information being stolen and spread out over the internet for anyone to have their way with it. I would never consider theft a necessary evil when it shouldn't happen at all. What LulzSec did may more inspire other hackers to commit malicious acts than propel companies into improving security. That would be a major backfiring of that logic if you ask me.

I'm afraid that my messages are a bit unclear on something- i am NOT in support of companies who have lax security by any means. So let that statement be clear. But i do however put more blame on the perpetrator for being the source of needing good security in the first place.

I also don't think them giving away the data to other thieves makes it any less heinous of a crime. If i break into someone's house, steal their stuff, and give it away for free, i'm still going to be tried under the same crimes had i kept the stuff for myself or sold it. That doesn't make me innocent.

Posting house addresses online and telling people to go steal from them is not funny and is definitely evil and wrong.

You're right, it is a breach like any other, what is different however is that LulzSec has done it continously, over and over.
They were all over the media etc etc they were able to make it so that many people get to know about it.
They announced the hacks and they hacked their announced targets, they shouted their accomplishments out to the public.
Other hackers don't do that, thats the difference in my opinion.

Other hackers just hack and sell your information without you knowing about it.
LulzSec on the other side released them for free, anyone was able to check if one is affected or not.
Again, yes it SHOULD not happen, but it does, many things happen although they should not thats the world we live in.

LulzSec did not break into the house, took the stuff and sold it, they "just" opened the door and left.
I think people who take advantage of an opened door are even worse than those who opened it.

I'm open to any opinion, I like discussions like these, they provide you with another point of view, so if what I say might have logical flaws I'm always open for corrections.

 

[BobTheJoeBob]

LulzSec did not break into the house, took the stuff and sold it, they "just" opened the door and left.
I think people who take advantage of an opened door are even worse than those who opened it.

Lets consider the security of a website 'the door'. LulzSec opened this door, went in, stole valuables (In this case, user details) and gave them out for free.

 

[Assax]

LulzSec did not break into the house, took the stuff and sold it, they "just" opened the door and left.
I think people who take advantage of an opened door are even worse than those who opened it.

Lets consider the security of a website 'the door'. LulzSec opened this door, went in, stole valuables (In this case, user details) and gave them out for free.

Not exactly, its more like they opened a door and gave out the adresses of the opened houses.
As I mentioned, I find it sadder that there are many people who take advantage of leaked files instead of those who leak them, it somehow mirrors to what society has come to.
While I was in Japan last year I saw many bikes not being locked and never seen anyone taking the opportunity to steal them.

 

[granville]

LulzSec did not break into the house, took the stuff and sold it, they "just" opened the door and left.
I think people who take advantage of an opened door are even worse than those who opened it.

Lets consider the security of a website 'the door'. LulzSec opened this door, went in, stole valuables (In this case, user details) and gave them out for free.

Not exactly, its more like they opened a door and gave out the adresses of the opened houses.
As I mentioned, I find it sadder that there are many people who take advantage of leaked files instead of those who leak them, it somehow mirrors to what society has come to.
While I was in Japan last year I saw many bikes not being locked and never seen anyone taking the opportunity to steal them.

No, it's more like they broke in, copied the lock and released the key mold for everyone to use. That's basically what a username and password combination is- a key. Same goes with posting the source code to certain sites or whatnot.

 

[hunter291]

Can someone who has the files please search for hunter291 ?

Only want to know if I am in it.

 

[machomuu]

Doubt they're lying. I don't think LulzSec is the type that would do that.

 

[Assax]

No, it's more like they broke in, copied the lock and released the key mold for everyone to use. That's basically what a username and password combination is- a key. Same goes with posting the source code to certain sites or whatnot.

Which all leads to the same, actions of previous intruders can be seen in "open for everyone" houses or in closed houses for which everyone has the key due to a blueprint of the key.
But I don't see how this contributes to the discussion at the moment as it is basically the same.

 

[DeMoN]

I'm still bitter that they didn't use their skills to hack the 3DS.

 

[shakirmoledina]

Good their gone
Lulzsec was like throwing a stone at a window and saying the window is fragile

absolutely silly philosophy to get lolz and excuse insecurity. Fancy words and acts may make ppl happy but it remains childish at the end.

PS - I feel they may have left due to fear of future detection

 

[dickfour]

if one thing comes out of this I hope it's that corporations take security seriously and don't keep mishandling our private information. If Lulz made it public there's bound to be hundreds that don't tell anyone but rather sell the credit card numbers they harvest on the black market.

 

[AP Hacker]

Everybody keeps saying "this should teach corporations to take better care of our information". You think the corporations held a meeting and said "let's make it stupidly easy to steal information from us"? Of course not.

Creating security is an *occupation*. You have to be hired.
Hacking that security is a hobby. Anybody can get together with their friends, provided they have some knowledge of the field, and break that security.

Nothing is unhackable because there will always be more people attacking the security than there is to defend it.

 

[chrisrlink]

yeah i feel though more sinister hackers will come out now ps that was crazy bout the fbi being hacked by them don't they have a high seciroty team rivaling that of the US military??

 

[Assax]

Everybody keeps saying "this should teach corporations to take better care of our information". You think the corporations held a meeting and said "let's make it stupidly easy to steal information from us"? Of course not.

Creating security is an *occupation*. You have to be hired.
Hacking that security is a hobby. Anybody can get together with their friends, provided they have some knowledge of the field, and break that security.

Nothing is unhackable because there will always be more people attacking the security than there is to defend it.

Lulzsec were - at least like they state - only made of 6 people.

 

[Zetta_x]

No, i'm actually saying you're flat out wrong. One of the traditional definitions of a hero is someone who fights to protect innocent people. Unless our definitions happen to be different.

There is the problem, we were looking at it with different perspectives. I was thinking they were heroes because they had the courage to do what they did, sure some of it if not all was malicious, but the fact they were able to do it in the first place made them my heroes.

 

[Foxi4]

No, i'm actually saying you're flat out wrong. One of the traditional definitions of a hero is someone who fights to protect innocent people. Unless our definitions happen to be different.

There is the problem, we were looking at it with different perspectives. I was thinking they were heroes because they had the courage to do what they did, sure some of it if not all was malicious, but the fact they were able to do it in the first place made them my heroes.

There's courage and there's being stupid. What you wanted to say is that they had "the balls", and I assure you, consequences will be severe. The Police already got one of'em, Team Poison's on their tail too. They're leaving because they have to, not because they want to.

Hacking Scene *does not* work the way LulzSec thought. It all usually stays in the shadows, hackers hack for the heck of it, not for publicity, which is the exact opposite of what LulzSec was doing. In fact, a hacker goes out of his/her way to stay UNDETECTED and never to be found. LulzSec on the other hand was waving a huge banner saying "WE DID IT!".

That's not being a hero, that's being a moron. It's like breaking into someone's garage, stealing a car, than giving it a paint job saying "Hey, my name is Martin Whatever, I live in Ohaio, I stole your car for Teh Lulz!" and placing the car back in the garage. Makes sense? Of course it does not, because it's stupid to begin with.

Now can we please stop with the LulzSec crap? The world is a better place without them, mmm-kay?

 

[Deleted-188346]

The only thing that LulzSec proved is that anything is hackable...

...whoopee...

...we already knew that. No company has ever promised that it is unbreakable.
Even if you use your credit card in a store, your PIN and Account number can be skimmed.
If you take your cash outside, it can be stolen.
If you drive your car, you can be carjacked, or your car can be broken into later.
If you have a Steam account, it can be hacked.

It never ends.

All that LulzSec did is show that these companies aren't so tough, which, of course, is going to invite other (more malicious) hackers to continue to make peoples lives miserable.