Gaming Kid Icarus: Uprising- Dual analogs "technically impossible" -S

[JulietStMoon]

In a recent interview with IGN, Kid Icarus: Uprising director Masahiro Sakurai defended the game's lack of dual analog support via the Circle Pad Pro, saying it was "technically impossible."

"Considering how close to the limit we pushed the 3DS during development, it's a miracle that we were even able to provide support for left-handed controls at the point of completion... Providing support for independent analog control was something that was technically impossible."

Sakurai never explains what he quite means by "technically impossible." My personal guess would be that the Circle Pad Pro was announced too late for the team to effectively calibrate the aiming controls for the analog (despite there being enough time to add in left-handed support, which might have been much easier to pull off). However, if that were the case, it's curious why Sakurai didn't mention it.

He goes on further to explain that "any game needs to provide new experiences," and that providing options for "run of the mill controls" would "cut down the game's potential."

I'm sorry, but what? I don't understand (or buy) that at all. After all, if that was truly Sakurai's reasoning, why was there an option to aim with the face buttons? I think we can all agree that, regardless of how you might feel about dual analog's unsuitability compared to the stylus (something which I would agree with you on), aiming with the face buttons is way worse. So why?

To me, this is, at best, a ridiculously huge oversight in the game's design, and, at worst, a ridiculous example of arrogance. To me, Sakurai saying that the game denies such a simple feature for reasons of innovation is like Apple claiming to withhold 4G or a keyboard (or any other number of features present in competitors) because "there's no reason anyone would need that."

Granted, Sakurai's alleged desire to make players "try a new experience" worked for me, since I started the game hating stylus controls, and now I love them (with a thumb stylus, anyway). But that's besides the point.

Anyway, what do you guys thinki?

Source: http://ds.ign.com/ar.../1224194p1.html

 

[elisherer]

I agree...Nothing is impossible..

They should use the new patch system and enable cpp use for aiming

EDIT: and L -> ZL

 

[JulietStMoon]

Agreed. Personally, I wouldn't use it simply because A) I've come to love the stylus controls, and B) I neither own, nor intend to purchase, a circle pad pro. But I think the feature should be there to make the game more accessible for players who otherwise are overlooking it.

 

[saberjoy]

What he means is that a person using the stylus controls would have a huge advantage over the player using dual analogs.People may not believe this but the stylus controls provide much faster gameplay to the player.So the online game modes would have been a big mess.

Meanwhile in a parallel universe......
"Oh my gawd these stylus controls are so much bettah than these gaddamn cpp controls. Why did that asian guy even implement this control scheme!"

 

[JulietStMoon]

What he means is that a person using the stylus controls would have a huge advantage over the player using dual analogs.People may not believe this but the stylus controls provide much faster gameplay to the player.So the online game modes would have been a big mess.

I know that's what he's saying, and I'm saying it makes no sense... again, he allowed the face buttons for aiming, why not the CPP's dual analog? It literally makes no sense at all to say "I'm not going to take the 5 seconds required to implement X control scheme cuz it's inferior to Y control scheme, but I'm going to allow Z control scheme which is way worse than either". And that's quite literally what he did, based on what he's saying here. I would be interested to hear his response if asked about the face buttons.

Also, quite frankly, it should be up to the player to decide whether they want to have the "bleeding edge" advantage with the stylus controls, or greater comfort with an "inferior" dual analog scheme that they're already familiar with and good at. It's a huge problem when companies withhold ANY grossly simple feature (that's just a quick software edit away) because THEY decided that it "wasn't in the player's best interest". You see what I mean? It's not about whether the dual analogs are better or worse than the stylus, it's about why such a simple option was withheld, especially when Sakurai's official explanation directly contradicts one of his other decisions (the inclusion of face button aiming).

 

[saberjoy]

What he means is that a person using the stylus controls would have a huge advantage over the player using dual analogs.People may not believe this but the stylus controls provide much faster gameplay to the player.So the online game modes would have been a big mess.

I know that's what he's saying, and I'm saying it makes no sense... again, he allowed the face buttons for aiming, why not the CPP's dual analog? It literally makes no sense at all to say "I'm not going to take the 5 seconds required to implement X control scheme cuz it's inferior to Y control scheme, but I'm going to allow Z control scheme which is way worse than either". And that's quite literally what he did, based on what he's saying here. I would be interested to hear his response if asked about the face buttons.

That face button thingy beats me too btw.Lets not go there

 

[The Milkman]

I think he's seriously BSing TBH. I think like Watchman said, they ran out of time to configure the CPP stick and they knew the game wasn't even suited for dual stick controls. Seriously, when your barreling around in air and you have to make quick movements and need to hit your target as fast as you can, you do want to take your time sliding a stick or swiping your stylus fast and accurately? I don't care what anyone says. Stylus aimming is more efficient and accurate then any stick.

 

[saberjoy]

I think he's seriously BSing TBH. I think like Watchman said, they ran out of time to configure the CPP stick and they knew the game wasn't even suited for dual stick controls. Seriously, when your barreling around in air and you have to make quick movements and hit your target as fast as you can, you don't want to take your time sliding a stick or swiping your stylus fast and accurate, I don't care what anyone says. Stylus aimming is more efficient and accurate then any stick.

Everyone knows stylus aiming is more accurate(in games like ki:u). The question here is why sakurai implemented face button controls when he could have just used cpp instead fulfilling the same purpose.My answer, the guy just got lazy.

 

[JulietStMoon]

Indeed, lol. I guess the reason I'm so frustrated about this is because I find it such a shame that more casual gamers (regardless of what we supposed "hardcore" gamers think of them) and those who love console shooters will essentially lose the amazing experience this game has simply because it's not as accessible without the dual analogs. For a whole lot of people, this isn't like one of those weird new control schemes that you adapt to and learn quickly... it takes LOTS of practice. Heck, that's how it was with me, and I ended up opting for a finger stylus instead cuz my hand cramped up so much, regardless of how "correctly" I held it.

PS: somewhat off topic, I've tested two thumb styli so far... one that's a knockoff of the madcatz thumb stylus (without the adjustable strap), and also the comfort stylus. The madcatz clone is much more portable and practical, but the comfort stylus fits much better, and has better accuracy like a real stylus (though it's not very friendly in your pocket, unless you want to speed up the deterioration of the wire). I'm waiting for my official DS Thumbstrap to arrive, and that will be the final one I test. hopefully, that one will be the one I like best (since it straps straight to the 3DS, I don't have to worry about it falling out of my pocket and stuff).

 

[The Milkman]

Indeed, lol. I guess the reason I'm so frustrated about this is because I find it such a shame that more casual gamers (regardless of what we supposed "hardcore" gamers think of them) and those who love console shooters will essentially lose the amazing experience this game has simply because it's not as accessible without the dual analogs. For a whole lot of people, this isn't like one of those weird new control schemes that you adapt to and learn quickly... it takes LOTS of practice. Heck, that's how it was with me, and I ended up opting for a finger stylus instead cuz my hand cramped up so much, regardless of how "correctly" I held it.

This didnt really have much trouble controlling for me, and hell I'm a lefty, the sliding motions made it much easier then the tap-and-hold controls that MPH used.
I'm not saying I don't think it should have added dual stick support, I'm saying that the time probably came down on them and they knew the game wasnt suited to it to begin with.
Also, geting 4 buttons to act as a second d-pad requires a hell of a lot less coding then configuring a slider that has 360 different inputs plus the ability to sense how hard its being pushed.

 

[JulietStMoon]

This didnt really have much trouble controlling for me, and hell I'm a lefty, the sliding motions made it much easier then the tap-and-hold controls that MPH used.
I'm not saying I don't think it should have added dual stick support, I'm saying that the time probably came down on them and they knew the game wasnt suited to it to begin with.
Also, geting 4 buttons to act as a second d-pad requires a hell of a lot less coding then configuring a slider that has 360 different inputs plus the ability to sense how hard its being pushed.

Yeah, but would it really have been that much different from coding the movement on the left stick? I'm not that convinced. Heck, the left stick basically acts the exact same as the stylus during the flight segments, except you're using it to move put around the screen rather than the reticle.

But I agree, it was probably because they ran out of time that it wasn't implemented.

 

[elisherer]

I guess i'm a weirdo.. because I get confused when playing a long time using the current control scheme...
I use 3 different controls (Circle Pad, Stylus & L trigger) as everyone...
And I see myself rotating the 3ds as I play until the 3ds almost slips from my hands...
I get cramps trying to push the L trigger (I guess you need little hands).
and I feel like i'm putting a lot of pressure on the touch screen in order to keep it from slipping...

Are you experiencing any of this?

 

[DiscostewSM]

I don't think technically impossible in the sense that he couldn't add the CPP to the list of control schemes. I do think technically impossible for decent gameplay though, just as much as with the face buttons for doing relatively the same thing. I gave them a try, and in my honest opinion, there's no way in hell I'd use either control scheme in an actual level. The game was built with using the stylus in mind. The option to use the face buttons is just that. An option, but it also doesn't require a separate purchase, which can give less incentive to support it. There are some games that use the CPP relatively well, but from what I've seen, those games have something in common. Their method of moving and shooting is not the same as with KI:U. KI:U has a lot of quick-action attributes to it allowing a stylus to work much more efficiently than analog controls could. IMHO, to incorporate the CPP while allowing decent gameplay would require a change to the game itself, which from my perspective, would be a technical problem.

Thinking of it this way, I take back what I said earlier, and do believe that in general, it would be technically impossible to add independent analog controls to the game.

 

[Eerpow]

I guess i'm a weirdo.. because I get confused when playing a long time using the current control scheme...
I use 3 different controls (Circle Pad, Stylus & L trigger) as everyone...
And I see myself rotating the 3ds as I play until the 3ds almost slips from my hands...
I get cramps trying to push the L trigger (I guess you need little hands).
and I feel like i'm putting a lot of pressure on the touch screen in order to keep it from slipping...

Are you experiencing any of this?

Have you tried playing it with a DX thumb stylus? (It's not the same thing as using the original DS thumb strap, I've tried both and the DX one is miles better.)
Combine that with the sensitivity set to high and it's best alternative once you get used to it.

I still play it with the stylus once in a while and I've got to say that it's crucial to hold the 3DS as if your left hand were a cradle, if that makes sense.
People tend to hold it with their fingers curled in rather than stretched out supporting the weight of the system.
I've got medium sized hand so when pressing L I do not use the tip of my finger, I press the button using the area below the middle joint of my index finger.

 

[Skelletonike]

I guess i'm a weirdo.. because I get confused when playing a long time using the current control scheme...
I use 3 different controls (Circle Pad, Stylus & L trigger) as everyone...
And I see myself rotating the 3ds as I play until the 3ds almost slips from my hands...
I get cramps trying to push the L trigger (I guess you need little hands).
and I feel like i'm putting a lot of pressure on the touch screen in order to keep it from slipping...

Are you experiencing any of this?

I'm left handed and I've never had any issues with that, be it with the CPP or without it, never had problems playing the game, ironically, the one game that I don't use the stand they gave is Kid Icarus. xP

 

[JulietStMoon]

One of the nicest things about using a thumb stylus/thumbstrap is that it gives you full access to the R button, which opens so many easier controls, especially for accessing powers. Instead of using the touch screen to navigate and tap in the middle of battle (putting you at risk), you can just set the dpad to scroll powers, and the R button to use them. Heck, you can even swap around and use the R button to attack (like most console shooters for righties) if it makes you feel more comfortable.

It's amazing how much easier that 1 extra button makes things... I really don't understand why Sakurai opted for the stand instead of the thumb stylus or thumb strap.