Is the PS4's GDDR5 really all that it is cracked up to be?

[hisagishi]

yeah 8GB of GDDR5 ram is all its cracked up to be, many ps3 games are not even 8 GB so devs could load an entire game into Ram and access data from it faster than from the disc/HDD/Cloud(that last ones gonna be slow unless u have low latency Internet). Of course we don't know how much of that ram will be reserved for the feature heavy OS, but even if its half(unlikely) that's 4-6 GB of ram just for the games. Also the AMD Processor is highly compatible with GDDR5 chips.
What we should be criticizing, is the Plan to go with x86/x64 architecture for a "gaming" console.
It's great for Devs porting PC games using middle ware, great for GAKIAIs server compatibility, and its technically an up-to-date Jaguar AMD version.
Still this is outdated architecture cria 1978, built up, using workarounds to achieve boosts in performance (multiple cores, hyper-threading, that Jaguar tech mentioned earlier), its designed to maintain compatibility with Intel programming. There are better forms of architecture out there for Running Video Game Code, just look at what has been done ARM architecture on android/ios devices/3DS Resident evil. This is also why its not BC with Ps3. This also means Cell Architecture in the PS3 that Sony went further into debt for was a waste of their time, and money, even though they could have updated Cell for PS4.
Being realistic its the way these circuits will be connected with the GDDR5 and the GPU that will make a difference next gen.

Why switch to something new for a potential performance increase of how much exactly, 10%? 25%? Even 50% increase in performance wouldn't really justify the huge learning curve for most game devs to get it right. Oh and 8gb of ram/vram fills up way faster than you might think.

 

[Gnargle]

Sure. Most PC's these days are equipped with hexacore CPU's with on-die integrated graphics chips connected by GPU-grade, fast shared memory so that every asset is kept in one pool, nullifying the need for copying stuff back and forth. (Not.)

It's not all about "the memory used being GDDR5", it's about how the hardware is designed to be efficient at a low cost. If we were to compare it to a PC then yes - pretty "weak" but so was every console ever made - the key lies in how it performs in comparison and as we've seen on the presentation, it performs perfectly fine.

A hexacore CPU is no good in and of itself. (Also it's an octacore). The Jaguar is designed as a mobile CPU, meaning it's mainly for use in laptops. It's only clocked at ~ 1.2GHz per core, has low L2 cache, yadda yadda yadda. Any modern PC with, say, an Intel Core i3 processor blows that shit away. Also - the GPU on-die is good, but it's a fairly low end GPU, only outputting 1.84 TFLOPS. It's rumoured to be based on the Radeon 6670, which is a mid-range card 2 years old that gets rebranded every year or so.
Second: "GPU-grade RAM" is not really a good thing when it's shared between both the CPU and GPU. GDDR5 is super high bandwidth, but also ha a REALLY high latency - fine for texture streaming and the like, tasks performed by a GPU, NOT GREAT for CPU tasks. That's why any PC with a discrete graphics card has a separate pool of RAM for the GPU - DDR3, with low latency but low bandwidth for the CPU, and GDDR5, with high bandwidth but high latency for GPU tasks.
Sony are all about the show. The specs of the PS4 are pretty shite compared to even a mid-range PC, but as soon as they turn up on stage and go HOLY SHIT LOOK AT ALL THE GEE DEE DEE ARR FIVE RAM IN IT, Sony fanboys suddenly think that it's the most powerful thing in existence.
Also the PS4 isn't really going to be built at that low a cost. GDDR5 is expensive as all hell, and the Jaguar is all new. Expect at least a $500 price tag on the PS4 and even that would be a loss considering marketing costs and the like.

 

[Kouen Hasuki]

wow didn't think this was really a point on Conversation, But aye I can deffo see it making all the difference over DDR3

 

[hisagishi]

A hexacore CPU is no good in and of itself. (Also it's an octacore). The Jaguar is designed as a mobile CPU, meaning it's mainly for use in laptops. It's only clocked at ~ 1.2GHz per core, has low L2 cache, yadda yadda yadda. Any modern PC with, say, an Intel Core i3 processor blows that shit away. Also - the GPU on-die is good, but it's a fairly low end GPU, only outputting 1.84 TFLOPS. It's rumoured to be based on the Radeon 6670, which is a mid-range card 2 years old that gets rebranded every year or so.
Second: "GPU-grade RAM" is not really a good thing when it's shared between both the CPU and GPU. GDDR5 is super high bandwidth, but also ha a REALLY high latency - fine for texture streaming and the like, tasks performed by a GPU, NOT GREAT for CPU tasks. That's why any PC with a discrete graphics card has a separate pool of RAM for the GPU - DDR3, with low latency but low bandwidth for the CPU, and GDDR5, with high bandwidth but high latency for GPU tasks.
Sony are all about the show. The specs of the PS4 are pretty shite compared to even a mid-range PC, but as soon as they turn up on stage and go HOLY SHIT LOOK AT ALL THE GEE DEE DEE ARR FIVE RAM IN IT, Sony fanboys suddenly think that it's the most powerful thing in existence.
Also the PS4 isn't really going to be built at that low a cost. GDDR5 is expensive as all hell, and the Jaguar is all new. Expect at least a $500 price tag on the PS4 and even that would be a loss considering marketing costs and the like.

6670? Even a 7850 is "only" at 1.76Tera flops, and 1.2ghz per core sounds painful.

 

[Rydian]

Oh and 8gb of ram/vram fills up way faster than you might think.

... under what circumstances that would apply to a console?

 

[Kouen Hasuki]

... under what circumstances that would apply to a console?

Thats what I was thinking since it doesn't have a whole OS, plus extra's like Skype and Antivirus ect ect to eat at it

Especially when you consider the current gen consoles had done fine on in comparison to PC's a tiny amount of ram lol

 

[hisagishi]

Fair enough. I was just thinking with having to load levels into ram and share that space with the GPUs things it might get a little cramped. Though I suppose I am more used to using loads of Vram for modded games like skyrim, and most games don't even use up a full 4gb (I think PS2 uses 8gb sometimes but thats an MMOFPS)

Bad logic on my part.

 

[trumpet-205]

This also means Cell Architecture in the PS3 that Sony went further into debt for was a waste of their time, and money, even though they could have updated Cell for PS4.

Sony can't update Cell. Cell development was stopped by IBM (IBM only agrees to continue produce existing Cell CPU and provide support). Cell really is a failure for IBM because the only customer is Sony.

 

[wolfmanz51]

Sony can't update Cell. Cell development was stopped by IBM (IBM only agrees to continue produce existing Cell CPU and provide support). Cell really is a failure for IBM because the only customer is Sony.

well if i wasent plastered i wouldn't have made the cell argument, as i remember now reading perviously what you just said, lol. Yet sony paid out of pocket to help develop CELL and sold consoles at a loss, IBM didn't lose any money on selling Cell chips in fact they sold a shitload of them to sony and the military, but now the Military is using something different i think its Power architecture

 

[Deleted_171835]

It's a welcome surprise considering most were expecting 4GB but it's not Jesus-incarnate, going to cure cancer and bring on world peace type awesome like some fanboys have been hyping it to be as explained already.