Hacking How can anyone be okay with Gateway's behavior?

[MAMENUTOR]

While I think WolfSaviorZX have "interesting" idea and opinion, I have to say that he's right about his last post kyogre123.

Gateway does seem to have deliberately bricked 3DS of customers that have nothing to do with R4i team's action.


EDIT :
Actually, they are. If they really are the one behind this, they are responsible for writing a "kill switch" code whose purpose if to "destroy the 3DS of those evil customer that decided R4i instead of us".

no they are not. they did write the kill switch. but if instructions were followed it would have never triggered. you buy a gun you hope you never have to use it. but if someone comes in your house and threatens your family and you defend yourself i would not blame you for the death of the trespasser. stupid comparison i know im just trying to make a point

 

[ELok]

no they are not. they did write the kill switch. but if instructions were followed it would have never triggered. you buy a gun you hope you never have to use it. but if someone comes in your house and threatens your family and you defend yourself i would not blame you for the death of the trespasser. stupid comparison i know im just trying to make a point

No problem about comparison, I also like to do so myself.

However, I would slightly modify it.

First, let's say a bomb instead since is closer to the reality. So GW created bomb that they "hoped" they would never use it.

Second, the part about "hoping to never use it" is also off in my opinion. I'm quite sure GW knew exactly what they were doing they they knew 3DS would "blow up". They weren't idiot, they knew R4i would blindly copy their software again and knew the customer's 3DS would brick.

Even is you use a courier to deliver a bomb, you're still responsible for creating the bomb and sending it to innocent people.

 

[spinner09]

no they are not. they did write the kill switch. but if instructions were followed it would have never triggered. you buy a gun you hope you never have to use it. but if someone comes in your house and threatens your family and you defend yourself i would not blame you for the death of the trespasser. stupid comparison i know im just trying to make a point

You gun analogy sucks (Jesus, are we back to analogies again?).
Remember Fez on the Xbox? The developers released a patch that had a bug that WIPED everyones saved game. Consumers were angry and they blamed Phil Fish for it (developer of the game).
Did anyone turn around and blame Microsoft for distributing it? NO. MIcrosoft didn't know about the bug, even though they do basic testing on all code before releasing it as an update. MS wasn't to blame, they didnt write it. In the end of the day, the developers pulled the patch and apologized for it.
If you wrote a piece of code that does something wrong, YOU are to blame for it. End of story. It doesn't matter who distributes it.

 

[bikewow]

I think it's kind of badass. I mean, sucks about the fallout, but who doesn't like the ambitious, cut-throat villian that'll do anything to win?
I mean, it's piracy afterall. I look forward to their future updates.

 

[Ryft]

So many analogies... it's like if you have [insert analogy about the number of analogies here].

 

[Xzi]

No problem about comparison, I also like to do so myself.

However, I would slightly modify it.

First, let's say a bomb instead since is closer to the reality. So GW created bomb that they "hoped" they would never use it.

Second, the part about "hoping to never use it" is also off in my opinion. I'm quite sure GW knew exactly what they were doing they they knew 3DS would "blow up". They weren't idiot, they knew R4i would blindly copy their software again and knew the customer's 3DS would brick.

Even is you use a courier to deliver a bomb, you're still responsible for creating the bomb and sending it to innocent people.

In that scenario, not only did R4i take the bomb from Gateway's house, but they lit the fuse as well.

R4i/3DSLink had to perform the action necessary to trigger the bricking code. Which was removing the initial MD5/sanity check on Gateway's firmware. Not only that, but they had to do NO OTHER WORK in order for a console to be bricked. If they had looked for any other checks in the firmware, which would require minimal work on their part (on par with the work they already did to remove the initial checks) they could have prevented the whole thing. Thus it was ultimately the negligence of the R4i/3DSLink team that caused all of this to happen. No two ways about it.

It would be like you or me attempting to alter code that we were completely unfamiliar with, not to mention being complete novices in that regard. We'd probably end up bricking our computers. The bottom line is that you should never mess with things that are over your head. Same would obviously apply to physical equipment, in which case you could get yourself killed instead of just messing up an electronic device.

 

[MAMENUTOR]

You gun analogy sucks (Jesus, are we back to analogies again?).
Remember Fez on the Xbox? The developers released a patch that had a bug that WIPED everyones saved game. Consumers were angry and they blamed Phil Fish for it (developer of the game).
Did anyone turn around and blame Microsoft for distributing it? NO. MIcrosoft didn't know about the bug, even though they do basic testing on all code before releasing it as an update. MS wasn't to blame, they didnt write it. In the end of the day, the developers pulled the patch and apologized for it.
If you wrote a piece of code that does something wrong, YOU are to blame for it. End of story. It doesn't matter who distributes it.

your analogy sucks to because the fez patch at diference from the gw launcher wiped games when used as instructed. the gatweay launcher when used as intended has not bricked a single console. look i get why you guys are mad and i even why you would blame gateway for this. and its true they decided to f*** the clones and their users. but the thing is they were protecting their code witch was stolen and it was their hard work. nintendo would kill to be able to do thesame to them whit a fw update and at the end of the day i would not blame them ether. i know its fucked up but i dont think its their fault.

 

[spinner09]

but the thing is they were protecting their code witch was stolen and it was their hard work..

Does no one else see the fucking irony in this? A company who's sole purpose is to make stealing other peoples hard work easier for people, is now pissed that another company stole their work?
No sympathy for Gateway, seriously. I'm glad the cloners are undercutting the shit out of them.

nintendo would kill to be able to do thesame to them whit a fw update and at the end of the day i would not blame them ether.

No they fucking wouldn't. Big companies aren't that vindictive. Take Microsoft for example, they can detect when someone is playing with a hacked/modified (Jtag) console online, and they could easily choose to brick such consoles if they wanted to. BUT THEY DONT, they simply ban them from Xbox Live. Same with other manufacturers (Sony, Nintendo, etc). It would be a public relations nightmare if they started breaking people's hardware on purpose.

 

[SuperSVGA]

Also there was a ds flashcart (n5) that blew fuses in ppls ds.

Couldn't you easily replace the fuse though?

 

[ELok]

In that scenario, not only did R4i tatke the bomb from Gateway's house, but they lit the fuse as well.

R4i/3DSLink had to perform the action necessary to trigger the bricking code. Which was removing the initial MD5/sanity check on Gateway's firmware. Not only that, but they had to do NO OTHER WORK in order for a console to be bricked. If they had looked for any other checks in the firmware, which would require minimal work on their part (on par with the work they already did to remove the initial checks) they could have prevented the whole thing. Thus it was ultimately the negligence of the R4i/3DSLink team that caused all of this to happen. No two ways about it.

It would be like you or me attempting to alter code that we were completely unfamiliar with, not to mention being complete novices in that regard. We'd probably end up bricking our computers. The bottom line is that you should never mess with things that are over your head. Same would obviously apply to physical equipment, in which case you could get yourself killed instead of just messing up an electronic device.

I'm sorry but I don't agree.

First while R4i did "light" the fuse by modifying GW code, at no point they knew there was actually a fuse, or a bomb. There was no message in the program saying "IF YOU TOUCH THIS, THE 3DS WILL BRICK".

Second, I'm quite sure it was impossible for R4i to find the kill code somewhere inside the compiled code of their beta software. The code is compiled, you cannot access it anymore.

Third, I'm no novice in computer programming and no you won't brick computer by messing with code or program that you don't own. The program will just crash. Messing with GW code didn't brick the 3DS by itself, the fact that GW code would deliberately brick any 3DS if it fail "check" is the reason those 3DS was bricked. GW could have simply make the program crash or make a statement about protection on their new firmware, but they let the bomb blow.

 

[Xzi]

I'm sorry but I don't agree.

First while R4i did "light" the fuse by modifying GW code, at no point they knew there was actually a fuse, or a bomb. There was no message in the program saying "IF YOU TOUCH THIS, THE 3DS WILL BRICK".

Second, I'm quite sure it was impossible for R4i to find the kill code somewhere inside the compiled code of their beta software. The code is compiled, you cannot access it anymore.

Third, I'm no novice in computer programming and no you won't brick computer by messing with code or program that you don't own. The program will just crash. Messing with GW code didn't brick the 3DS by itself, the fact that GW code would deliberately brick any 3DS if it fail "check" is the reason those 3DS was bricked. GW could have simply make the program crash or make a statement about protection on their new firmware, but they let the bomb blow.

You expected GW to warn R4i about the code they added specifically to keep R4i from messing with it? That would probably defeat the purpose, don't you think?

And yes, R4i could have found the kill code. They had to access the code and edit it to get it to run on their hardware in the first place.

 

[ELok]

You expected GW to warn R4i about the code they added specifically to keep R4i from messing with it? That would probably defeat the purpose, don't you think?

And yes, R4i could have found the kill code. They had to access the code and edit it to get it to run on their hardware in the first place.

Omg, you know how to perfectly reverse-engineer compiled code? Please write a book and we'll give you a nobel prize.

No they didn't. AFAIK they took the compiled program and worked on the input/output so their clone card would be "compatible" with it. They had no idea what was inside the closed box that is a compiled program.

And yes, they should have done something to avoid the bricking of innocent customers. Making them pay by bricking their 3DS was far from the only way for GW to gain support.

 

[spinner09]

And yes, R4i could have found the kill code. They had to access the code and edit it to get it to run on their hardware in the first place.

You're an idiot who doesn't know how code works. r4i do not have access to the decompiled (ie: plain text) code. They've been able to make it work on their hardware by reverse engineering certain parts of it, it's a complicated process.

 

[MAMENUTOR]

Does no one else see the fucking irony in this? A company who's sole purpose is to make stealing other peoples hard work easier for people, is now pissed that another company stole their work?
No sympathy for Gateway, seriously. I'm glad the cloners are undercutting the shit out of them.

no i get the irony i just dont see how that affects what we are discussing. wheather or not what they are doing is legal its a whole diferent topic.

No they fucking wouldn't. Big companies aren't that vindictive. Take Microsoft for example, they can detect when someone is playing with a hacked/modified (Jtag) console online, and they could easily choose to brick such consoles if they wanted to. BUT THEY DONT, they simply ban them from Xbox Live. Same with other manufacturers (Sony, Nintendo, etc). It would be a public relations nightmare if they started breaking people's hardware on purpose.

the only reason they dont do it its because its not in the best intrest of their buissness. if it was in their best intrest, they were legaly able to and there was no pr nightmare involved they would do it. like i said they wish they could but they cant. again i dont se where you are goin whit this, im just clarifying.

 

[Cyberdrive]

You expected GW to warn R4i about the code they added specifically to keep R4i from messing with it? That would probably defeat the purpose, don't you think?

When you want to prevent someone from messing with your code, you obfuscate it. When you want to do damage, you write malicious code which is the case here. They added it specifically to brick consoles, fully realising the consequences. They just forgot that when you throw shit at others (in attempts to tarnish their reputation) it's impossible to stay clean yourself (and the shit they're getting for this now is completely justified).

 

[Xzi]

You're an idiot who doesn't know how code works. r4i do not have access to the decompiled (ie: plain text) code. They've been able to make it work on their hardware by reverse engineering certain parts of it, it's a complicated process.

Even more reason to not mess with something that was obviously completely over their heads. Again, the same thing probably would have resulted from someone like me, who has no coding experience whatsoever, messing with it. This makes the R4i/3DSLink team sound even more negligent. They might as well have been complete novices for all the difference it made in the end.

Omg, you know how to perfectly reverse-engineer compiled code? Please write a book and we'll give you a nobel prize.

No they didn't. AFAIK they took the compiled program and worked on the input/output so their clone card would be "compatible" with it. They had no idea what was inside the closed box that is a compiled program.

And yes, they should have done something to avoid the bricking of innocent customers. Making them pay by bricking their 3DS was far from the only way for GW to gain support.

Same as above. I agree that GW should have tried to think of another solution to stop their firmware from being copied. And while I feel sorry for the users, I still think they can blame R4i's negligence just as much anything Gateway did. If I had a brick, I'd be just as pissed at myself for going cheap when I knew damn well that Gateway was the only team doing original work.

 

[gix222]

but the real Question is - why does R4i and other teams uses GW launcher???
U can make hw but not software?

 

[Xzi]

but the real Question is - why does R4i and other teams uses GW launcher???
U can make hw but not software?

The hardware makes them money, the software does not. And their hardware is loosely based off of GW's flash cart as well. They simply try to make manufacturing it as cheap as possible.

 

[Ericthegreat]

I'm sorry but I don't agree.

First while R4i did "light" the fuse by modifying GW code, at no point they knew there was actually a fuse, or a bomb. There was no message in the program saying "IF YOU TOUCH THIS, THE 3DS WILL BRICK".

Second, I'm quite sure it was impossible for R4i to find the kill code somewhere inside the compiled code of their beta software. The code is compiled, you cannot access it anymore.

Third, I'm no novice in computer programming and no you won't brick computer by messing with code or program that you don't own. The program will just crash. Messing with GW code didn't brick the 3DS by itself, the fact that GW code would deliberately brick any 3DS if it fail "check" is the reason those 3DS was bricked. GW could have simply make the program crash or make a statement about protection on their new firmware, but they let the bomb blow.

True now they could have said "We made our firmware so that clones will brick your system". Tho it seems memory corruption could be the issue, not a complete nand wipe. Who has proof of such "kill code"?

 

[MAMENUTOR]

all things considered even if im not ok with the gw team methods. i would still chose them given the other options are:

1 buy a clone and risk bricking my console.
2 buy no 3ds flashcart and spend thousands of dollars in games.

once you see past all the moral issues and the rage. its just the smartest decition.