Hot-take: Stadia is GOOD for PC Users

Essasetic

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Alright, let me explain. In Stadia's announcement it said that it would be using Linux as it's OS and Vulkan as it's graphics API.

This is good because it'll encourage developers to develop/port games to Linux. Ending Windows' dominant force as a gaming OS (if Stadia is successful).

As an extra, this is also good for AMD GPU users as it's awful with OpenGL (at least on Windows. It's fine on Linux).

But, vulkan generally performs better on AMD GPUs than Nvidia GPUs. So we could see a lot of competition here!

This may be a bit far fetched but I do believe there are positives of Stadia existing that I see nobody discussing about.
 
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Tom Bombadildo

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Ah yes, just like SteamOS encouraged all those devs to make Linux ports, too!

Oh wait...

I fail to see why Google has any better chance of accomplishing this than Valve, the de facto leader of PC gaming on any platform, did. Sure, Google is a bigger company, but they're non-existent for PC gaming beyond this initial attempt and I highly doubt Stadia will somehow be any more successful than any previous cloud gaming platform has yet.

Besides, this won't fix the multiple reasons why most big devs ignore Linux ports anyways. Until Linux maintains a hefty market share for consumer environments (read: probably never), most big developers who ignore Linux will simply continue to ignore Linux. There's still less than an entire 1% of people who use Steam (the biggest PC gaming platform) on Linux, which likely won't remotely change with Stadia.
 

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Hmm... I concede that is a step in the good direction for Linux gaming, but Tom already said it : it has to be hugely successful in an already overcrowded market, which just isn't likely.

Is not fun to say, but the only way the Microsoft hegemony will fail is by their own doing. I mean... This step in the right direction, for example, is countered by epic's store being windows only (so a step in the opposite side, if you will).
 
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Essasetic

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Ah yes, just like SteamOS encouraged all those devs to make Linux ports, too!

Oh wait...

I fail to see why Google has any better chance of accomplishing this than Valve, the de facto leader of PC gaming on any platform, did. Sure, Google is a bigger company, but they're non-existent for PC gaming beyond this initial attempt and I highly doubt Stadia will somehow be any more successful than any previous cloud gaming platform has yet.

Besides, this won't fix the multiple reasons why most big devs ignore Linux ports anyways. Until Linux maintains a hefty market share for consumer environments (read: probably never), most big developers who ignore Linux will simply continue to ignore Linux. There's still less than an entire 1% of people who use Steam (the biggest PC gaming platform) on Linux, which likely won't remotely change with Stadia.
I think there is a clear difference between SteamOS and Stadia. Whilst SteamOS was only accessable by either buying a specific device or wiping your OS and installing a new fresh one. Stadia is cloud based and can be ran off phones, computers and practically anything that could be considered a reasonable gaming device. That's one advantage Stadia already has.

Furthermore, it has got some big developers like Bethesda and CD Projekt Red to release games like Doom Eternal and Cyberpunk 2077 respectively on Stadia. I do think Stadia does have a chance to take off it just needs to play it's cards right (and apart from the games being separate fiasco they are playing them well).

And yeah, Linux is a really small minority when it comes to PC Gaming in general. But I think that could change in a few years. Proton is already making massive progress to make Windows games run effortlessly using the Steam port for Linux. Also, Linux is getting more and more attention as an alternative due to a number of things like: driver support gradually getting better and better, proton maturing and Linux even outperforming Windows on certain titles.

I personally do think the future of gaming is likely going to be on Linux. Simply because it's getting more attention (thanks to Stadia and Proton), Linux having benefits that Windows does not have and it's becoming easier and easier to set it all up.

It's far from ready yet and still has a long road ahead until it can be considered a viable alternative for most Windows games. But it is getting there and it's making more progress by the day.
 

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Well the general idea of cloud gaming to get a great experience at a monthly rate.
If you need to worry about the power of the system you're streaming then I wouldn't say it's worth it.
In this sense I don't think branding or better ports for linux will matter more because what you're streaming from should be overpowered or high end
 

Essasetic

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Unless ISPs stop with bandwidth cap BS, this is a terrible idea and will easily reach caps in a short time. It's bad enough paying for a monthly fee, it's even worse paying for individual games on top of the service fee. Yeah, pass.
IDK what issues you have but I've never had an issue with that.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Well the general idea of cloud gaming to get a great experience at a monthly rate.
If you need to worry about the power of the system you're streaming then I wouldn't say it's worth it.
In this sense I don't think branding or better ports for linux will matter more because what you're streaming from should be overpowered or high end
I was talking more about Stadia being used as a gateway to make games being ported to Linux very easy.
 

the_randomizer

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IDK what issues you have but I've never had an issue with that.

The other issue is paying for games on top of paying for the service. See that's what I don't like, because at the end of the day, it's glorified renting, and the best part?
When companies go under, you can kiss your $50 game goodbye. Yeah, pass.

Bandwidth caps exist no thanks to the FCC being absolute dumbasses for not forcing ISPs in removing them. I either have to pay $25 more a month for unlimited, or use a VPN and bypass the cap.
 
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Essasetic

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The other issue is paying for games on top of paying for the service. See that's what I don't like, because at the end of the day, it's glorified renting, and the best part?
When companies go under, you can kiss your $50 game goodbye. Yeah, pass.

Bandwidth caps exist no thanks to the FCC being absolute dumbasses for not forcing ISPs in removing them. I either have to pay $25 more a month for unlimited, or use a VPN and bypass the cap.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
I was talking more about Stadia being used as a gateway to make games being ported to Linux very easy.
 

Tom Bombadildo

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I think there is a clear difference between SteamOS and Stadia. Whilst SteamOS was only accessable by either buying a specific device or wiping your OS and installing a new fresh one. Stadia is cloud based and can be ran off phones, computers and practically anything that could be considered a reasonable gaming device. That's one advantage Stadia already has.

Furthermore, it has got some big developers like Bethesda and CD Projekt Red to release games like Doom Eternal and Cyberpunk 2077 respectively on Stadia. I do think Stadia does have a chance to take off it just needs to play it's cards right (and apart from the games being separate fiasco they are playing them well).

And yeah, Linux is a really small minority when it comes to PC Gaming in general. But I think that could change in a few years. Proton is already making massive progress to make Windows games run effortlessly using the Steam port for Linux. Also, Linux is getting more and more attention as an alternative due to a number of things like: driver support gradually getting better and better, proton maturing and Linux even outperforming Windows on certain titles.

I personally do think the future of gaming is likely going to be on Linux. Simply because it's getting more attention (thanks to Stadia and Proton), Linux having benefits that Windows does not have and it's becoming easier and easier to set it all up.

It's far from ready yet and still has a long road ahead until it can be considered a viable alternative for most Windows games. But it is getting there and it's making more progress by the day.
My point is that Linux based services and platforms do not magically garner more end-user Linux support. SteamOS was supposed to be the future of gaming, had the same "big dev" promises, was "proven" to be soooo much better than Windows for games...and it went absolutely nowhere. Why? Because the average person doesn't give a rats ass about that fancy Linux stuff, and couldn't be bothered to make the swap when they had something that already worked just fine. Stadia may have the advantage of being usable anywhere (so long as you meet the necessary ISP requirements), but cloud gaming still has plenty of hurdles it has to jump before it's even remotely considered a "viable alternative" to just having a PC or a console.

Also, Proton is just Wine for idiots with some additional tweaks that could've already been made by end users. If that were going to somehow magically increase Linux usage for the average consumer, it would've done so 20+ years ago when it launched, or 10+ years ago when PlayOnLinux (also Wine for idiots, but shit now unfortunately) launched. I fail to see why Wine for idiots would somehow make devs more interested in releasing Linux ports when they'll see people are already getting games to run on Linux without them having to do anything. If anything, Proton simply proves to devs they don't need to even bother making a native Linux port, some dude will just make some tweaks using wine-config and winetricks and get it running well enough for those 20 other dudes who bother gaming on Linux.

As I said, Stadia does nothing to promote the usage of Linux to the mass market (read: idiots), which is the real problem with devs not bothering to port anything to Linux. You have to remember that we're talking about people who are mostly not all that technologically inclined, you can spout your "DRIVER IMPROVEMENTS" and "MARGINALLY BETTER PERFORMANCE" such all you like, but none of that means jack shit to the majority of people who've gamed on Windows all their life and want something that "just works" that they're familiar with.

I love Linux and all, I dual boot it on pretty much every PC in my house and have occasionally gamed on it when I couldn't be bothered to reboot to Windows, but get real kid, it does not and will never have the necessary mass market appeal to be the "future of gaming" unless Microsoft magically goes bust and it suddenly becomes impossible to use Windows on any PC ever.

To put it more into perspective, macOS, the "LOL MAC HAS NO GAMES WHAT IDIOT WOULD GAME ON A MAC" platform has 3x more active Steam users per month than Linux has. And again, Linux only accounts for 0.79% of Steam users. There are 90 million active Steam accounts, 86.4 million are using Windows. If you honestly think Linux will ever hit even 10% of that number in the next few decades, I'm afraid you're simply deluded.
 
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Not right now, Google is trying to do a Valve, but it's not the right time yet. Stadia might not fail due to their resources, but it will remain too niche to effect the sort of change you're talking about.

I think Tom is right about Microsoft being the only player that could cause any sort of major shift at this point. I also think that Apple will be the one making any gains marketshare rather than Linux.
 

Hells Malice

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It's good for casual gamers and non-gamers who don't wish to invest in hardware. Stadia was never intended for gamers. It's meant to further make gaming even more accessible.
It'll do virtually nothing for linux gaming which will remain in irrelevance.

That's even assuming it's successful. Which it may be, we'll have to wait and see. But even best case scenario is what I just stated. Linux isn't a gaming platform and likely won't be for a while. Unless it can start properly and effortlessly running all Windows games of course.
 
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Taleweaver

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After thinking some more about it, I came to the conclusion that things like stadia and (earlier) steamOS aren't the correct way of thinking of this.


What would be good for linux is, ironically enough, platform independence. I've read that for any single game, the percentage of code that is actually OS dependent is in the single digits. That is also why many programming engines (unity, gamemaker) have a "compile for <insert platform>" feature. That, in turn, is why you see many more indies going cross-platform over AAA-games (who do all but rely on a prebuilt engine).

In that light, stadia is more like a nudge. Or perhaps a symptom. Currently large companies have little little incentive to do more work on tweaking their engines to port for a measily one percent of gamers (of whom a decent portion is proficient enough to get it running anyway). But if stadia becomes a success(1), it could direct those developers into at least ruling against specific "windows only" features whenever they come up ("should we build on directX or vulcan?"). Or may even sway an analysis of costs for the engine ("the extra work/money to make our engine (nearly) platform-independent is going to cost X. We'll build Y games on it, each which we should be able to sell to Z more people. So if we can keep cost X low enough and/or the audience Z becomes large enough, then it becomes economically interesting to do it. So if X<YxZ, then we might go for some linux porting").

(1): the strange thing with the low linux gamer base is that stadia can rake in four or five times as many game-playing people(2) than the linux gaming base and still be considered a failure. :P
(2): I want to avoid the word 'gamers' here, because that term nowadays seems to imply "defending the current way of gaming"

PS: honestly: this thread has to be renamed to "Hot-take: Stadia is GOOD for linux". While I'd like to personally believe that linux is the future for PC, truth be told that the OS is but one component of the thing. The most malleable, yes, but still: just one component.
 
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