Hearings about January 6 capital

[Foxi4]

That isn't 4D chess, though. To many people involved, this sort of thing isn't a game. Politics and current events go hand in hand and drastically alter their daily lives. Protests, uncertainty, increasing costs in rent and goods, persecution against race and gender, this is all relevant stuff. I'm glad you're able to ignore that aspect and try to draw amusement out of things, but this means you aren't really engaging at an equal level with others at all. You're taunting from a place of safety with the promise that you have benign intentions all the while.

Also, just straight up, the "echo chamber" you proclaim to try and break up is almost always to the one side that you at least purport to dislike. I respect your ability to fight right wing points better than your peers, you seem like an intelligent enough fellow, but you also seem to have a really bad habit of citing the first source on google you can find with a viewpoint that matches your own, treating it like gospel, and ignoring anything else the person you were talking to said.

You seem to harbor genuine animosity the left, but don't want to align to the right. You prod at little things without taking a firm stance, then proclaim you're just trying to stir the pot. That sounds like you're on the fence while leaning off the side, comrade. Everyone else is taking a side, maybe you should be more genuine in your stance too.

I do harbor an animosity towards the left, but that doesn't automatically align me with the religiously fundamentalist right. A debte on an Internet forum is not a place to get emotional over "people's living experiences". You bring up raising costs of rent and goods now, but when you were warned that printing money 24/7 with no clear end goal was going to cause this, your side argued that there is no evidence that inflation affects the daily lives of Joe Shmoes. Just because this is a game we're all participating in doesn't mean that it's not a game.

 

[Deleted member 559230]

You bring up raising costs of rent and goods now, but when you were warned that printing money 24/7 with no clear end goal was going to cause this, your side argued that there is no evidence that inflation affects the daily lives of Joe Shmoe.

Unfortunately I doubt the left is going to learn their lesson and will continue to the blame others for rising prices. What they're also going to come to realize is once prices go up they rarely ever come back down. They were indeed warned that this would happen, but like most idiots they are in denial and blame others. So go on, pass another trillion dollar taxpayers expense bill and watch what happens. Oh and lots of ROFL if they get their $15 minimum wage hike then all of the prices go up even more and cancels the raise out.

 

[jimbo13]

D'aww, you do care! I knew you couldn't keep me on block, silly billy!

But seriously though, you sound like you're literally saying you live the modern neo-con ideal lifestyle. Libertarian, "super skeptic", still rocking the alpha-male concept while indulging in personal choices that at least mildly break the law, and your views on individuals versus the masses completely embraces this notion that you, individually, matter more than others because you're doing okay and you're absolutely super smart and has biggus wang. You still vote right, with the added caveat that "I'm a special exception snowflake though, they're just closest to MY viewpoints. I got better ones, though!"

Nope your still blocked, I skim occasionally to see what others are replying to and on the rare occasion you said anything other than nonsense and insults I might reply. The hall marks of neo-conservatism are globalism and foreign interventionism and nothing I support. Just because I prefer the GOP to regressives doesn't default to liking them.

Without ballot reforms excluding third parties and ranked choice voting I have two options at the end of the day, not ideal but I still have a preference.

People like you make it a very easy choice.

 

[Dakitten]

I do harbor an animosity towards the left, but that doesn't automatically align me with the religiously fundamentalist right. A debte on an Internet forum is not a place to get emotional over "people's living experiences". You bring up raising costs of rent and goods now, but when you were warned that printing money 24/7 with no clear end goal was going to cause this, your side argued that there is no evidence that inflation affects the daily lives of Joe Shmoe. Just because this is a game we're all participating in doesn't mean that it's not a game.

Well, it IS a two party system, and... you are leaning on the side with all the religiously fundamentalist folk... I don't presume to know your actual faith nor exact principals, and based on your earlier statements I don't think I could believe them even if you state them here, but you are in fact playing with people's emotions. You might try to bow out of any responsibility by saying it is a game and you're just trolling around in the megabrain corner for cool kids above the noise, but you've kinda overplayed your hand at this point. You're emotional discussing this stuff, you've got a bias, you don't want to seem like you care about who you might hurt or how you might be spreading information you worry might not be true, it's all for your lulz if things get ugly... But most folks here are discussing in earnest because things mean something to them. It is the nature of the beast, particularly in important topics like politics.

Also, I don't presume you to be a bible thumper or anything, so I'd appreciate you extending the kindness that you might not know what "my side" is. I'm sure it is a bit unsurprising, but I'm all in for communism. Dems don't do anything with the economy I approve of, they just aren't actively pushing as hard as Republicans to ruin the things that are dear to me, like social safety nets, job guarantees, and the right to food, threads, and homesteads for all. The richest country in the world having so much poverty and inequality is an absolute shame.

Unfortunately I doubt the left is going to learn their lesson and will continue to the blame others for rising prices. What they're also going to come to realize is once prices go up they rarely ever come back down. They were indeed warned that this would happen, but like most idiots they are in denial and blame others. So go on, pass another trillion dollar taxpayers expense bill and watch what happens.

I don't really even think you know what you're talking about here, but I appreciate your comment to help me make a point! As Foxi can see here, bad faith arguments by somebody with a bit of knowledge on a subject is like a lightning rod for the uninformed to rally behind. Bugman obviously has no earthly idea what he's talking about, but when he spots somebody sporting an opinion that he likes, he'll hop onto the bandwagon, spout some nonsense, and create an... oh, what is the phrase... something about sound bouncing back between walls around a group of people...

Republicans have been running up debt, lowering taxes, and pumping up inflation just fine even when controlling all branches of government outright. I don't care for how the Dems have been handling it either, but for the past 50 years they've been largely the underdog in terms of policies passed and power utilized to get things to the current day... which sucks pretty badly compared to before that point for the middle class.

Nope your still blocked, I skim occasionally to see what others are replying to and on the rare occasion you said anything other than nonsense and insults I might reply. The hall marks of neo-conservatism are globalism and foreign interventionism and nothing I support. Just because I prefer the GOP to regressives doesn't default to liking them.

Without ballot reforms excluding third parties and ranked choice voting I have two options at the end of the day, not ideal but I still have a preference.

People like you make it a very easy choice.

Oh, you can say that, yet here we are, still dancing~

I actually agree with you on third parties and ranked choice voting, for what its worth... And on how to handle the two party system. And how we seem to view one another as examples for why we vote the way we do. I actually disagree with you on the views of neocons insofar as globalism goes. The running theory seems to be more about bringing foreign governments to heel beneath the US, rather than establishing cooperative trade agreements, and many supporters of neocon beliefs... happen to embrace Libertarians. There is a reason you're voting red, after all. It maintains the status quo you're used to and enjoy, right? You might not want to participate in any hugathons for their candidates, but they'll get your vote because you align.

 

[Foxi4]

Well, it IS a two party system, and... you are leaning on the side with all the religiously fundamentalist folk... I don't presume to know your actual faith nor exact principals, and based on your earlier statements I don't think I could believe them even if you state them here, but you are in fact playing with people's emotions. You might try to bow out of any responsibility by saying it is a game and you're just trolling around in the megabrain corner for cool kids above the noise, but you've kinda overplayed your hand at this point. You're emotional discussing this stuff, you've got a bias, you don't want to seem like you care about who you might hurt or how you might be spreading information you worry might not be true, it's all for your lulz if things get ugly... But most folks here are discussing in earnest because things mean something to them. It is the nature of the beast, particularly in important topics like politics.

Also, I don't presume you to be a bible thumper or anything, so I'd appreciate you extending the kindness that you might not know what "my side" is. I'm sure it is a bit unsurprising, but I'm all in for communism. Dems don't do anything with the economy I approve of, they just aren't actively pushing as hard as Republicans to ruin the things that are dear to me, like social safety nets, job guarantees, and the right to food, threads, and homesteads for all. The richest country in the world having so much poverty and inequality is an absolute shame.

Correction - I don't "try to not care", I don't care. Policy is not based on emotion, it's based on what works and what doesn't. Basing your policy prescriptions on emotions is how you create an authoritarian distopia where some people are more equal than others.

No, it's not the least bit surprising. I apologise for assuming what "your side" is, but in all fairness, I wasn't exactly way off in my assessment.

 

[Dakitten]

Correction - I don't "try to not care", I don't care. Policy is not based on emotion, it's based on what works and what doesn't. Basing your policy prescriptions on emotions is how you create an authoritarian distopia where some people are more equal than others.

No, it's not the least bit surprising. I apologise for assuming what "your side" is, but in all fairness, I wasn't exactly way off in my assessment.

You... do realize that we're experiencing a "more equal than others" sort of system right now, right? Medical, legal, and financial systems are all rigged to support those with wealth instead of those who work hard, hence the disparity of wealth and health in the USA. As for policy, they lead us to this point, emotions attached or not (we aren't robots and neither are you so naturally they seep in no matter what) we're at a point where the planet is dying, people are dying, the middle class and class mobility is dying, and your credibility is dying~ Change needs to occur, and we need to recognize the problems that got us here, unless we want to repeat the same mistakes going forward.

 

[jimbo13]

You... do realize that we're experiencing a "more equal than others" sort of system right now, right? Medical, legal, and financial systems are all rigged to support those with wealth instead of those who work hard, hence the disparity of wealth and health in the USA. As for policy, they lead us to this point, emotions attached or not (we aren't robots and neither are you so naturally they seep in no matter what) we're at a point where the planet is dying, people are dying, the middle class and class mobility is dying, and your credibility is dying~ Change needs to occur, and we need to recognize the problems that got us here, unless we want to repeat the same mistakes going forward.

And instead of doing anything to address those issues the left spends the entirety of their political capital on 1/6 witch hunts, policing pronouns and making sure biological men can compete in women's sports.

They don't say the words "Student debt relief" outside of campaign season.

Energy sector jobs are the highest paid unskilled/willing to train jobs in the country, I know guys who didn't graduate highschool who were making over a 100k year now sitting on the couch laid off as a direct result of Bidens priorities.

Where's the green energy jobs and training Biden ran on when he pledged to eliminate these workers positions?

And no one is obligated to "work hard", it's 2021 we developed a technologically advanced to ease burdens. People generally develop wealth based on a talent or expertise, not this communist fantasy of working people like livestock.

 

[Foxi4]

You... do realize that we're experiencing a "more equal than others" sort of system right now, right? Medical, legal, and financial systems are all rigged to support those with wealth instead of those who work hard, hence the disparity of wealth and health in the USA. As for policy, they lead us to this point, emotions attached or not (we aren't robots and neither are you so naturally they seep in no matter what) we're at a point where the planet is dying, people are dying, the middle class and class mobility is dying, and your credibility is dying~ Change needs to occur, and we need to recognize the problems that got us here, unless we want to repeat the same mistakes going forward.

You're talking about equality of outcome, not equality under the law - I'm not interested in making people unequal under the law just to make a few people feel like they've done something about the world's plights when they've done nothing. As a side note, no, the planet is not "dying" - the planet will be just fine, even long after our civilisation perishes.

 

[Deleted User]

not equality under the law - I'm not interested in making people unequal under the law

People are already unequal under law, we want to fix that. The United States has over 100 years of prejudice against groups of people. Laws that still effect groups of people to this day made in the past. The United States at it's conception was unequal.

And people are still fighting for rights. Around 1980 came around, we lost unions. There's a reason companies or CEO's don't like them. It forces them to be equal with the worker. Because inherently, without Unionization, the deck is stacked, and it's not towards the worker. There's a reason BLM is happening. Because there are laws surrounding those groups of people, and or past laws, and previous prejudice that has existed for generations


Laws that effected the ability for black people to gain economic mobility.

 

[Foxi4]

People are already unequal under law, we want to fix that. The United States has over 100 years of prejudice against groups of people. Laws that still effect groups of people to this day made in the past. The United States at it's conception was unequal.

And people are still fighting for rights. Around 1980 came around, we lost unions. There's a reason companies or CEO's don't like them. It forces them to be equal with the worker. Because inherently, without Unionization, the deck is stacked, and it's not towards the worker. There's a reason BLM is happening. Because there are laws surrounding those groups of people, and or past laws, and previous prejudice that has existed for generations


Laws that effected the ability for black people to gain economic mobility.

If you'd like to point out one law on the books that specifically discriminates based on race, now would be the time to mention it.

 

[SyphenFreht]

And instead of doing anything to address those issues the left spends the entirety of their political capital on 1/6 witch hunts, policing pronouns and making sure biological men can compete in women's sports.

They don't say the words "Student debt relief" outside of campaign season.

This seems eerily similar to Trumps campaign, where he promised to arrest Hilary (didn't happen), build a wall (barely happened), and made at least quite a few other declarations that didn't pan out either. I also remember the last year or so of his presidency focusing on dumping tons of money into the voter fraud witch hunt, which I believe is still ongoing, which I believe still has yet to pan out any results so..

With disregard to political affiliation, I find it's hard to go based on what a politician says in regards to how they're going to run their presidency. Yeah maybe the left has a bad habit of misappropriation and backwards allocation in terms of money, but to define the left as such is kind of hypocritical.

Energy sector jobs are the highest paid unskilled/willing to train jobs in the country, I know guys who didn't graduate highschool who were making over a 100k year now sitting on the couch laid off as a direct result of Bidens priorities.

Where's the green energy jobs and training Biden ran on when he pledged to eliminate these workers positions?

Where's that wall we were supposed to get? Jk, jk. But really, Bidens only been in office less than a year. Who really expects him to create so many turn of the century jobs in such a short time? Without proper funding, market interests, and corporate backing, there's not much he can do, which is kind of a good thing. If any president could step into the White House, snap their fingers and instantly make good on all their campaign promises, well... that would just be dictatorship, right? If people are laid off, it's more than likely a localized economy problem or a result of people over compensating in regards to Covid. You can't make a living as a home installer, for example, if people won't let you into their house because of rampant disease. Thank God Trump acted soon enough to prevent this problem when covid first came around. /s

QUOTE="jimbo13, post: 9544383, member: 307373"]And no one is obligated to "work hard", it's 2021 we developed a technologically advanced to ease burdens. People generally develop wealth based on a talent or expertise, not this communist fantasy of working people like livestock.[/QUOTE]

What. I hope that's satire.

 

[Dakitten]

If you'd like to point out one law on the books that specifically discriminates based on race, now would be the time to mention it.

You're doing it again, comrade. You're trying to skirt off the letter of the law while ignoring the purpose and effect of laws, trying to win a technical victory instead of an actual one. This is disingenuous as all get-out, and really makes you seem like a pompous not-nice person. Just saying. In the 80s, the drug wars were put forth with racist intentions. In the 90s, media censorship and rating systems was largely targeted at minority groups. In the new millennium, voting rights issues are more aggressively targeted in order to disadvantage minority communities. If you really need more citing of how the recent wave of voting rights bills disenfranchises minorities because you pretend not to know how to use google, I can provide some... But you've already confessed to sometimes playing devil's advocate for the sake of "promoting discourse" so I really don't take your comment seriously.

This seems eerily similar to Trumps campaign, where he promised to arrest Hilary (didn't happen), build a wall (barely happened), and made at least quite a few other declarations that didn't pan out either. I also remember the last year or so of his presidency focusing on dumping tons of money into the voter fraud witch hunt, which I believe is still ongoing, which I believe still has yet to pan out any results so..

With disregard to political affiliation, I find it's hard to go based on what a politician says in regards to how they're going to run their presidency. Yeah maybe the left has a bad habit of misappropriation and backwards allocation in terms of money, but to define the left as such is kind of hypocritical.



Where's that wall we were supposed to get? Jk, jk. But really, Bidens only been in office less than a year. Who really expects him to create so many turn of the century jobs in such a short time? Without proper funding, market interests, and corporate backing, there's not much he can do, which is kind of a good thing. If any president could step into the White House, snap their fingers and instantly make good on all their campaign promises, well... that would just be dictatorship, right? If people are laid off, it's more than likely a localized economy problem or a result of people over compensating in regards to Covid. You can't make a living as a home installer, for example, if people won't let you into their house because of rampant disease. Thank God Trump acted soon enough to prevent this problem when covid first came around. /s

QUOTE="jimbo13, post: 9544383, member: 307373"]And no one is obligated to "work hard", it's 2021 we developed a technologically advanced to ease burdens. People generally develop wealth based on a talent or expertise, not this communist fantasy of working people like livestock.

What. I hope that's satire.[/QUOTE]

You missed it earlier, but Jimbo is a privileged individual claiming to be in a three girls/two of them wives wives drug hazed libertarian orgy paradise who doesn't need to work for a living. At best, he's lacking the ability to sympathize with working class people and wouldn't want to if he could, but at worst he's taking a page from his second favorite person James O'Keefe's book and trolling to try and coax negative reactions out of his peers on the site~ As such, he is full of comedy gold like that.

 

[Foxi4]

You're doing it again, comrade. You're trying to skirt off the letter of the law while ignoring the purpose and effect of laws, trying to win a technical victory instead of an actual one. This is disingenuous as all get-out, and really makes you seem like a pompous not-nice person. Just saying. In the 80s, the drug wars were put forth with racist intentions. In the 90s, media censorship and rating systems was largely targeted at minority groups. In the new millennium, voting rights issues are more aggressively targeted in order to disadvantage minority communities. If you really need more citing of how the recent wave of voting rights bills disenfranchises minorities because you pretend not to know how to use google, I can provide some... But you've already confessed to sometimes playing devil's advocate for the sake of "promoting discourse" so I really don't take your comment seriously.

I'll take that as a "no" then.

It's the same old spiel - "some laws disproportionately affect minority offenders therefore racism". Yeah, no. The rules we play by are the same for everybody, and this is coming from someone who's decriminalise large swathes of drugs, not because they put "black offenders" in jail disproportionately (they do) but because people have bodily autonomy and can do whatever they want with their own bodies, including ingesting substances and engaging in self-destructive behaviour. If we *just* stopped criminalising vices, more black families would have a dad, but that's not a result of the law being racist, it's a result of the ridiculous war on drugs.

 

[Dakitten]

I'll take that as a "no" then.

It's the same old spiel - "some laws disproportionately affect minority offenders therefore racism". Yeah, no. The rules we play by are the same for everybody, and this is coming from someone who's decriminalise large swathes of drugs, not because they put "black offenders" in jail disproportionately (they do) but because people have bodily autonomy and can do whatever they want with their own bodies, including ingesting substances and engaging in self-destructive behaviour. If we *just* stopped criminalising vices, more black families would have a dad, but that's not a result of the law being racist, it's a result of the ridiculous war on drugs.

Not only is that just wrong on its face (I offered a source if you wanted, I just didn't post one for you in specific because it is a broad request where I voice my suspicion it is being asked for in bad faith), but your further post kinda proves the point. Even if the law is made to "apply to everyone", it is targeted and utilized to specifically hinder certain groups. Law is not perfect, infallible, or made by robot arbiters of a defined concept of justice and public safety. It also can largely be circumvented with money. Bail, plea deals with cash penalties, and private representation all can be utilized so that those with resources can avoid the punitive measures the court places on the poor, and if the economy is rigged to keep minorities poor... It all chains together in a terrible network of destructive capitalism.

 

[Foxi4]

Not only is that just wrong on its face (I offered a source if you wanted, I just didn't post one for you in specific because it is a broad request where I voice my suspicion it is being asked for in bad faith), but your further post kinda proves the point. Even if the law is made to "apply to everyone", it is targeted and utilized to specifically hinder certain groups. Law is not perfect, infallible, or made by robot arbiters of a defined concept of justice and public safety. It also can largely be circumvented with money. Bail, plea deals with cash penalties, and private representation all can be utilized so that those with resources can avoid the punitive measures the court places on the poor, and if the economy is rigged to keep minorities poor... It all chains together in a terrible network of destructive capitalism.

Sure, laws are often made in order to tackle a specific problem in a specific demographic. For instance, Biden's crime bill specifically targeted the crack cocaine epidemic and had provisions for harsher sentences for users of crack cocaine as opposed to powdered cocaine which was more of an upper class drug. This led to more arrests/longer jail time for black offenders since crack was more prevalent in "the hood". Do you know who requested that measure specifically? Black community leaders trying to tackle the crackhead epidemic in their neighbourhoods. Is that racist, or is that a measure against crack use? *Most* laws that concern violent crime and drugs "disproportionately" affect people of colour - is that racist, or do POC neighbourhoods have a crime problem? You can draw references from the 80's and 90's all you want - it's 2021. I'm not interested in law 40-30 years ago, I asked about here and now, and here and now you can't come up with one thing holding people back besides poor life choices.

 

[jimbo13]

This seems eerily similar to Trumps campaign, build a wall (barely happened),

There's the wall, progress satisfactory, promise kept.

Bidens only been in office less than a year. Who really expects him to create so many turn of the century jobs in such a short time? Without proper funding, market interests, and corporate backing, there's not much he can do, which is kind of a good thing.

I expect him to be advancing a retraining program and associated job bills as quickly as he is eliminating energy sector jobs which he began doing by executive order the first day in office.

You had 3 points,

Hillary, Wall, Can't make jobs out of thin air then then proceeded to fill an entire page with "I think I remember jk jk" get to the fucking point next time. You set a record for saying the least with typing the most. Your not that funny, neither are most people laughing at their own comments.

 

[Lacius]

@jimbo13 After four years in office, only about 49 miles of border wall was constructed where there hadn't already been a wall. The rest was maintenance and/or replacement of existing wall. And, regardless of how much was constructed, none of it was the kind of "concrete wall" the former president promised, and none of it was "paid for by Mexico."

As for the pipeline:

1. The Keystone Pipeline was have been an environmental disaster and should not have been built, regardless of how many jobs it would have created.
2. The vast majority of jobs that would have been created by the pipeline would have been temporary jobs. It would have only taken 50 jobs to maintain the pipeline after it was constructed.
3. Ignoring the cyber attack in May that resulted in some higher gas prices, the main cause of rising gas prices is the same thing that's causing rising prices across the board: inflation as a result of a sudden economic recovery. There is zero evidence that canceling the pipeline has done anything to gas prices, and experts on both sides of the political spectrum agree.
4. Investing in green energy would result in a lot more jobs than the pipeline would have ever created.

 

[djpannda]

IM more outraged that. President William McKinley betrayed America by riding in one of those new fangled "Auto-mobiles" Rather then a Horse and Buggy. This a American Travesty, Whats going to happen to all those stables !!

 

[jimbo13]

1. Investing in green energy would result in a lot more jobs than the pipeline would have ever created.

Any time now, If they have time for 1/6 hearings at least half these people "being super serial in their photo op" can be drafting the retraining legislation Biden promised.

And it is much more than one pipeline, Biden is aggressively eliminating drilling leases. You can spew all the excuses you want for the skyrocketing gas prices. Occam's razor points right at the person hostile to the sector that produces the predominate energy in use. Biden has done nothing to replace that energy he has stopped production of.

 

[djpannda]

THINK OF the Children, Why are we Using Netflix when UHF is still a perfectly Good Source of Viewing Pleasure! This is all a COMMUNIST ploy to Destroy America!! Think of all the PUBLIC Access TV Workers!! What are they going to do?