Hacking Discipline (People need lines)

[SoraK05]

This thread was inspired by what I wrote in the freeshop dmca thread on pages 20 and 21.
http://gbatemp.net/threads/freeshop-gets-dmcad-on-github.454752

[EDIT] WITHIN THE FIRST 13 POSTS IS THE GENERAL POSTS REGARDING THE BASIC OUTLINE OF THINGS I WAS LOOKING TO DISCUSS ABOUT THIS THREAD. THE THREAD IS GENERALLY TO BE A REFERENCE THAT LOOKS TO BE DOWN THE MIDDLE TO WORK WITH AND BUILD UPON.

I WROTE DOWN 'THE SOLUTION' FOR THE CURRENT DMCA AND NOT DOWNLOADING FROM CDN/NUS (OR ANOTHER PRIVATE SERVER SIMILARLY) IN POST 13, 'TO NOT PUT ALL BACKUPS IN ONE SPOT'. I ASK PEOPLE GENERALLY TO NOT PASTE MY NAME AROUND AND FEEL FREE TO USE THIS WRITING HOW THEY SEE FIT TO BUILD SOMETHING FROM IT. I WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK TO MY LIFE AND FOR THINGS TO WORK IN THE UNDERGROUND.

FEEL FREE TO ADD, EXPOUND OR ADJUST THE TEXT FOR WHAT PEOPLE WILL DO. THANKS.
I didn't necessarily have a lot of time, and I am quite busy, so this is what I put together considering some general haste about the situation and to deal with things sooner than later. I think it covers the basic outline.

IF I CAN ENCOURAGE SOMETHING, DON'T GO AFTER THECRUEL (I THINK MORE THAN NINTENDO), OR NINTENDO. [EDIT]

To consolidate my input into one thread post, I copy pasted the two posts into here.

----------

I have been out of it for some time, and didn't realize a software like this existed.
In the Wii days already, it was possible to make a software like NUSDownloader support custom ticket data and a list of shop titles, and make it simple to download a WAD and pack it directly from Nintendo's servers.

I think there is a reason it didn't happen. The reason is because people were aware of a discipline to not do it. There is some software which should generally not make it to the public, and even in private should be used within limitation.

Even though hacking allows one to be able to cheat in games, this should not be exploited for people to cheat online in games. It disturbs the entire peace of a public online infrastructure, and if one wants to cheat, one should think about doing it privately with friends (private server).

A software like this makes it very easy to pirate, and to the masses. I understand hacking days have changed and it is easier for 'laymen' to make software. I am coming from a place where I have witnessed companies attempt to stop piracy, and watched sceners and preservationists attempt to help support the legal ability to make 'backups' and 'preserve', and the benefits of hacking like 'usb loading of games instead of discs for longer use of hardware, and to load games faster' for example.
Companies know it is practically impossible to stop piracy and hacking, and in a world where even something like Denuvo has been hacked, it brings things ups.


This software easily allows masses to simply bombard Nintendo's own servers and download files. No public software (in the world) should allow one to simply just hook into Nintendo's or other companies servers and simply go at it.
When it comes to the general line regarding piracy / preservation (and what one does with their life circumstance), things of this nature are not supposed to be so easy to get. Sceners go through a lot to be able to distribute wads and isos, and these are generally supposed to be the only way people get material. It shouldn't be an insult to injury to have raw access to play around with Nintendo's servers and add load and costs onto them unnecessarily when wads and isos are an option.


Even if some things are not defined specifically, people should learn about 'discipline'. It is 'discipline' which will help the chain regarding hacking and sceners / preservationists, and people in their day to day lives as they should ideally look to 'wean' off piracy and not make it as easy as this.
All I can say is I can only recommend at a time like this, that people consider 'discipline', and that the community supports some software like this not generally existing (in the public for sure), for not disrupting flow. It means people like the modders of GBATemp not allowing this kind of software on the forum.

My 2 cents.

-----

x65943 said:
I like a lot of your points, but the reason "freeshop" didn't happen on the wii is simply b/c Nintendo didn't offer most full retail titles on nus at the time. It had nothing to do with discipline. The wii scene was way larger than the 3ds scene has ever been, someone would have made it if s/he thought that it was worth it.


Many keys of Wii Shop games have been out, and including towards the end of the Wii. In fact, they are generally there for people to dig into with scene collections (from the keys which are actually real, and weren't fake keys intentionally in the beginning because of things like this very thing), and to do something like Freeshop even for the Wii U's Virtual Wii (and perhaps even the Wii U titles themselves with further Wii U homebrew).
Would it not be convenient to do it, or is a 'Wii Shop set' justifiably small? I think the Wii got hacked almost entirely in just about every means (up to Nintendon't), and yet this one single kind of software like Freeshop was not produced by anybody around. I remember it was an underground thing to suggest, even for personal use and something even sceners would be reluctant to use, let alone a public audience, and to not rattle Nintendo. Things have moved on since the Wii as the first console from Nintendo which was online, but I think it shouldn't be treated more slack, and taking it to a public audience.

I personally think times have changed, and to show for that is the fact that the Wii U hack of these days isn't a coordinated ('ethical') group like Team Twiizers / Fail0verflow.
I think people should be thoughtful and consider some general restriction to certain kinds of software. Nintendo wouldn't attack a software unless it was somewhat below the belt I think. I think people shouldn't get carried away, for not disrupting the flow.

I also think a software like Freeshop is in slightly bad taste, for the ease of use for a public to get 'free games'.

----------



The reason I began this thread is because of the generally inevitable crux of progress that is coming upon us. People back in the day used cartridges to hack with serial ports, and these days, it is becoming much easier with general experience and awareness of general techniques that are employed by companies to hack.

Some people may know a thing or two about me out there, and I know a thing or two myself about things. I have been thinking of preservation, piracy, and the world market of games and evolution for years. I know that I am in a generally unique position from being 'relatively neutral', so I am looking to do something about this. Perhaps after a thread like this in the future, people like me can come along from time to time to help all around (every side, being companies, developers and individuals for example), or people may just get it out there in consensus.
I know that 'a solution' involves 'not breaking games, with companies/developers not putting pressure on others or attracting piracy first in the hierarchy, and not making games 'politically correct light/fluffy' which with silly programming can literally damage hardware'. This shouldn't happen, and at a crux point that is coming up in the world all around, things might begin to become ridiculous.


It is far easier to pirate these days, and not just because of internet to get games but because of people having experience with newer consoles as well. Technology has improved to the ease of playing many games on a single flash memory card. Heavier protections like Denuvo for example have gone down.


Companies have watched for years the development of piracy and of technology advances. Companies know it is practically impossible to stop hacking. Computers are limited technology that one can generally arbitrarily attack, or emulate.
Just like money needs discipline to get by in the world, so do things like computers. There is 'charity' for people to be able to give back to game companies, which I suggest.


Electricity is not free in this world. There are things which are not free, and require actual work. Prosperity by its definition implies a flow of money and being productive (and with propagation). This means money must be spent, and for an effective flow to grow and for prosperity.

Companies and individuals have their place. Companies must do certain things to function, and people have to look to be understanding and work with the times for things all around to improve. Companies, like people, can improve and adjust over (enough) time, and with an openmindedness for others to behave how they see fit for their reasons.



We are in a day and age when it has become far easier to pirate, and general known security systems are going down easier and people are getting better at this. We are in a day and age where there are no general established boundaries. It is a crux point in time where people all around are going to have to look to work with lines and 'to be on good behavior (better behavior)'.
There are general do's and don'ts.

It is LEGAL for people to make backups and preserve, and in a way, it is not possible to obstruct this from the way computers are limited. People are able to get benefits, like playing games without a lens to spare the hardware, and faster loading. People can hold many games on a single device instead of one at a time.
At the same time, people have to be able to work with the system in place, like with online infrastructures to not conflict one's digital tickets and signatures, and to look clean to company servers. It isn't pleasant for companies to see multiple fake accounts, and to keep track of this. Companies need to work with the world market and place some restrictions, as is part of 'business'.


Now that things have gone online in the world, people have access to companies online services. On top of this, without general lines and a 'standard' for ethics, there are also more 'laymen' who may not know about internet and hacking discipline like older people.

Just because people can hack, people should not look to cheat on global worldwide servers and interfere gameplay for all. This puts a bad name on hackers, for disregard and lack of discipline for being reckless. Nintendo is a gaming company that must have a functional clean business image and support multiple developers, so how does Nintendo not know if people play a leaked copy of their game (pokemon) and online of all places! How unfair and game breaking, like cheating, is it for legit users to begin on the worldwide date and find people who have already played and have experience. The game is meant to begin in a fresh state for worldwide release. Companies must act as businessmen, because it is the nature of how things go around.

If you play games before street date, how do companies not see this like MicroSoft, and not automatically presume and tag you as an offender that disregards 'legal street dates'. Playing backups is 'fine', but playing games before a legal street date does push things, and especially with your digital watermark going to their servers from online presence, which companies must observe as a function of business.
Companies are constantly looking at the internet to see overall improvement and look at the scope of the hacking and piracy situation. This includes investors, who are looking to be productive and encourage prosperity to a world market. In this, is officials who look to also contribute and keep people in line.


We are at a crux point because of stronger protection going down, things becoming easier to hack, 'laymen around who can do things much easier than before', and a fair amount of pirates.
To add insult to injury, people think it is acceptable to literally hook into Nintendo's actual servers to rip games at their own leisure and bombard Nintendo's servers.
Software like this wouldn't have existed in the past (in my opinion). Part of the inspiration of the thread is the fact that SOME SOFTWARE SHOULD NOT BE PUBLIC, AS HAS COME UP IN THE RECENT PAST. Part of the inspiration of the thread is to assist with people looking to avoid certain software from existing (in the public generally, but some even privately).


Sceners and preservationists go through a lot to help with the legal ability to backup and preserve data. People need lines and boundaries. Let us not look to disturb these people, and the general methods for acquiring data.
People have their personal circumstance for what they do, and people should be encouraged to ween off piracy. Things go 'too far' when it becomes so easy to pirate, and literally not pay a thing and leech server expenses from Nintendo themselves (and which can become many GBs because this is 3DS and not even Wii Shop which would have been better).



Nintendo has made games available for many years, and people find it fine to literally leech into the servers of the people providing games. [EDIT: From Nintendo's perspective, what does Freeshop offer either if associating to their own server if people are only going to get games they own already? Better GUI and speed?] Nintendo and game companies are filled with people, and are not a 'corporation devoid of emotion'.
Nintendo have been very lenient with a lot of piracy out there and tools. Companies know that people try 'a lot' with preservation and backups, like with sceners and preservationists. Companies know people 'try' in ways that companies like Nintendo are unable to (from hands tied) about backups and preservation. Things underground usually go worse when 'n00bs' look to be a part of these circles, and grow to larger numbers. It is understandable that when things go out of hand, something has to be done.

People should learn to have some boundaries, lines and some respect. There should be some (sense of a) public image of responsibility.


For younger people perhaps to learn, it was harder to find backup material in the past because of shaky ground. Backups are not supposed to be easy to get. Backups are meant to be shrouded with 'professional integrity' to not abuse. Backups are not meant to have a nice gui and let you download games for free from a place like Nintendo of all places on the planet, let alone even a custom server.
It should not be so easy. This hasn't changed from the past, and it isn't going to change either, because 'some things are the way they are'.

I can understand from all kinds of software, crossing the line comes from making piracy this easy and doing it directly from Nintendo's servers. It wouldn't be acceptable even if it was a separate server. It is ludicrous to make a tool public that makes it so straightforward to get games.
The sources people get games are meant to have some integrity, and some awareness for people that it is part of 'the way it is' because of attempting to be responsible in the process.


Because of the crux point that has come, and a 'generally disappointing' occurrence of something like Freeshop, it is time for people around (all around, including companies) to consider 'good behavior / better behavior' and lines and boundaries.

*****
The times that are coming are shaky, and real, so look to be responsible. This also means that pirates out there should begin adjusting their lives to look to spend actual money.
*****

AT TIMES LIKE THIS, PEOPLE ALL AROUND ARE GOING TO WANT TO SEE PRODUCTIVITY (PROSPERITY ALL AROUND) AND IMPROVEMENT. IT IS THE NATURE OF THE TIMES (COMING). It wouldn't hurt to be nicer about other media like books, movies, tv shows and music either

It is a good time and example for people to get it together, and look to work with the flow (and system).

BE MORE DISCREET WITH BACKUPS. DISCRETION.

EDIT: Because of consolidation, and to not miss the point, I decided to append my post a few posts down in order for people to see this important information in the first post. I thought a few posts could go by before details like this were discussed, as it is the controversial detail, but here it is.


Using the servers of companies is a bad idea. With heavier security going down, the web will be looked upon regarding general negligence.

It is also difficult to allow a public tool to bombard their servers. Freeshop for example wasn't just taken down because it contained a logo. It is difficult to explain and reason why a tool to get games 'one already owns' needs to exist when there is the eShop. Is it really for a GUI and speed?
The main thing, however, which is highly the reason as to why Nintendo 'COULD' DMCA it is because of the need to use external keys, since keys for one's own games will already be on the 3DS.

Ticket files specifically belonging to an individual tied to their account on Nintendo's servers containing the decryption key are already present on the unit. One can redownload a game from the eShop because the ticket file is seen and present on the 3DS, and then when redownloading the key is used to decrypt the game as it comes onto the 3DS. Title Key websites are simply containing the decryption keys for games which one gets from a single 3DS that has purchased the game, and then one can just go onto make a completely fake ticket on CFW 3DS units.
What reason, for downloading 'games one owns', would there even need to be an option in Freeshop to allow for 'external key support'? It looks blatant, and it is slightly disturbing that people don't quite see something like this is somewhat 'too far'. If we are going to go into details, since people have to deal with this subject, this is I think the main one (and I left some time before going into this one since it is the controversial one).

I still think some software shouldn't be in the public (in the first place).

 

[MarioMasta64]

This thread was inspired by what I wrote in the freeshop dmca thread on pages 20 and 21.
http://gbatemp.net/threads/freeshop-gets-dmcad-on-github.454752

To consolidate my input into one thread post, I copy pasted the two posts into here.

----------


-----



----------



The reason I began this thread is because of the generally inevitable crux of progress that is coming upon us. People back in the day used cartridges to hack with serial ports, and these days, it is becoming much easier with general experience and awareness of general techniques that are employed by companies to hack.

Some people may know a thing or two about me out there, and I know a thing or two myself about things. I have been thinking of preservation, piracy, and the world market of games and evolution for years. I know that I am in a generally unique position from being 'relatively neutral', so I am looking to do something about this. Perhaps after a thread like this in the future, people like me can come along from time to time to help all around (every side, being companies, developers and individuals for example), or people may just get it out there in consensus.
I know that 'a solution' involves 'not breaking games, with companies/developers not putting pressure on others or attracting piracy first in the hierarchy, and not making games 'politically correct light/fluffy' which with silly programming can literally damage hardware'. This shouldn't happen, and at a crux point that is coming up in the world all around, things might begin to become ridiculous.


It is far easier to pirate these days, and not just because of internet to get games but because of people having experience with newer consoles as well. Technology has improved to the ease of playing many games on a single flash memory card. Heavier protections like Denuvo for example have gone down.


Companies have watched for years the development of piracy and of technology advances. Companies know it is practically impossible to stop hacking. Computers are limited technology that one can generally arbitrarily attack, or emulate.
Just like money needs discipline to get by in the world, so do things like computers. There is 'charity' for people to be able to give back to game companies, which I suggest.


Electricity is not free in this world. There are things which are not free, and require actual work. Prosperity by its definition implies a flow of money and being productive (and with propagation). This means money must be spent, and for an effective flow to grow and for prosperity.

Companies and individuals have their place. Companies must do certain things to function, and people have to look to be understanding and work with the times for things all around to improve. Companies, like people, can improve and adjust over (enough) time, and with an openmindedness for others to behave how they see fit for their reasons.



We are in a day and age when it has become far easier to pirate, and general known security systems are going down easier and people are getting better at this. We are in a day and age where there are no general established boundaries. It is a crux point in time where people all around are going to have to look to work with lines and 'to be on good behavior (better behavior)'.
There are general do's and don'ts.

It is LEGAL for people to make backups and preserve, and in a way, it is not possible to obstruct this from the way computers are limited. People are able to get benefits, like playing games without a lens to spare the hardware, and faster loading. People can hold many games on a single device instead of one at a time.
At the same time, people have to be able to work with the system in place, like with online infrastructures to not conflict one's digital tickets and signatures, and to look clean to company servers. It isn't pleasant for companies to see multiple fake accounts, and to keep track of this. Companies need to work with the world market and place some restrictions, as is part of 'business'.


Now that things have gone online in the world, people have access to companies online services. On top of this, without general lines and a 'standard' for ethics, there are also more 'laymen' who may not know about internet and hacking discipline like older people.

Just because people can hack, people should not look to cheat on global worldwide servers and interfere gameplay for all. This puts a bad name on hackers, for disregard and lack of discipline for being reckless. Nintendo is a gaming company that must have a functional clean business image and support multiple developers, so how does Nintendo not know if people play a leaked copy of their game (pokemon) and online of all places! How unfair and game breaking, like cheating, is it for legit users to begin on the worldwide date and find people who have already played and have experience. The game is meant to begin in a fresh state for worldwide release. Companies must act as businessmen, because it is the nature of how things go around.

If you play games before street date, how do companies not see this like MicroSoft, and not automatically presume and tag you as an offender that disregards 'legal street dates'. Playing backups is 'fine', but playing games before a legal street date does push things, and especially with your digital watermark going to their servers from online presence, which companies must observe as a function of business.
Companies are constantly looking at the internet to see overall improvement and look at the scope of the hacking and piracy situation. This includes investors, who are looking to be productive and encourage prosperity to a world market. In this, is officials who look to also contribute and keep people in line.


We are at a crux point because of stronger protection going down, things becoming easier to hack, 'laymen around who can do things much easier than before', and a fair amount of pirates.
To add insult to injury, people think it is acceptable to literally hook into Nintendo's actual servers to rip games at their own leisure and bombard Nintendo's servers.
Software like this wouldn't have existed in the past (in my opinion). Part of the inspiration of the thread is the fact that SOME SOFTWARE SHOULD NOT BE PUBLIC, AS HAS COME UP IN THE RECENT PAST. Part of the inspiration of the thread is to assist with people looking to avoid certain software from existing (in the public generally, but some even privately).


Sceners and preservationists go through a lot to help with the legal ability to backup and preserve data. People need lines and boundaries. Let us not look to disturb these people, and the general methods for acquiring data.
People have their personal circumstance for what they do, and people should be encouraged to ween off piracy. Things go 'too far' when it becomes so easy to pirate, and literally not pay a thing and leech server expenses from Nintendo themselves (and which can become many GBs because this is 3DS and not even Wii Shop which would have been better).



Nintendo has made games available for many years, and people find it fine to literally leech into the servers of the people providing games. [EDIT: From Nintendo's perspective, what does Freeshop offer either if associating to their own server if people are only going to get games they own already? Better GUI and speed?] Nintendo and game companies are filled with people, and are not a 'corporation devoid of emotion'.
Nintendo have been very lenient with a lot of piracy out there and tools. Companies know that people try 'a lot' with preservation and backups, like with sceners and preservationists. Companies know people 'try' in ways that companies like Nintendo are unable to (from hands tied) about backups and preservation. Things underground usually go worse when 'n00bs' look to be a part of these circles, and grow to larger numbers. It is understandable that when things go out of hand, something has to be done.

People should learn to have some boundaries, lines and some respect. There should be some (sense of a) public image of responsibility.


For younger people perhaps to learn, it was harder to find backup material in the past because of shaky ground. Backups are not supposed to be easy to get. Backups are meant to be shrouded with 'professional integrity' to not abuse. Backups are not meant to have a nice gui and let you download games for free from a place like Nintendo of all places on the planet, let alone even a custom server.
It should not be so easy. This hasn't changed from the past, and it isn't going to change either, because 'some things are the way they are'.

I can understand from all kinds of software, crossing the line comes from making piracy this easy and doing it directly from Nintendo's servers. It wouldn't be acceptable even if it was a separate server. It is ludicrous to make a tool public that makes it so straightforward to get games.
The sources people get games are meant to have some integrity, and some awareness for people that it is part of 'the way it is' because of attempting to be responsible in the process.


Because of the crux point that has come, and a 'generally disappointing' occurrence of something like Freeshop, it is time for people around (all around, including companies) to consider 'good behavior / better behavior' and lines and boundaries.

*****
The times that are coming are shaky, and real, so look to be responsible. This also means that pirates out there should begin adjusting their lives to look to spend actual money.
*****

AT TIMES LIKE THIS, PEOPLE ALL AROUND ARE GOING TO WANT TO SEE PRODUCTIVITY (PROSPERITY ALL AROUND) AND IMPROVEMENT. IT IS THE NATURE OF THE TIMES (COMING). It wouldn't hurt to be nicer about other media like books, movies, tv shows and music either

It is a good time and example for people to get it together, and look to work with the flow (and system).

BE MORE DISCREET WITH BACKUPS. DISCRETION.

as someone who constantly is not having money to actually buy games back in the wii days i would make backups of friends discs... and even today i would make backups of friends 3ds cartridges sometimes however when it comes to sales if everyone just starts ripping off people noone would get payed and the 3ds will become the new ds which is why im both for and against the topic. however i wish to see the 3ds flourish as i have bought $600 worth of 3ds games and i wish not to see the 3ds die just yet...but as said in 33c3 "game over, nintendo"

 

[FAST6191]

Should mention it has existed for a while on the 360.
All xbox live arcade (XBLA) games can be downloaded, directly from the home menu if you do it right, and in fact they are full games but for a tiny switch that you can also run from the console. Not so easy for DLC or GOD installs, however you could turn a standard disc install into a GOD install quite easily too.

Also it seems Nintendo have a unique per game key available to them (some call them headers) and hosed it up so badly they might as well not even check it. Though I am perfectly happy to see "you hack, you lose online" be a thing still the incompetence on Nintendo's part astounds me.

"Sceners and preservationists go through a lot to help with the legal ability to backup and preserve data. People need lines and boundaries. Let us not look to disturb these people, and the general methods for acquiring data."
Some of my best friends are in the Scene, that said such an appeal falls on deaf ears for me here and probably will not do any better elsewhere.

 

[MarioMasta64]

Should mention it has existed for a while on the 360.
All xbox live arcade (XBLA) games can be downloaded, directly from the home menu if you do it right, and in fact they are full games but for a tiny switch that you can also run from the console. Not so easy for DLC or GOD installs, however you could turn a standard disc install into a GOD install quite easily too.

Also it seems Nintendo have a unique per game key available to them (some call them headers) and hosed it up so badly they might as well not even check it. Though I am perfectly happy to see "you hack, you lose online" be a thing still the incompetence on Nintendo's part astounds me.

"Sceners and preservationists go through a lot to help with the legal ability to backup and preserve data. People need lines and boundaries. Let us not look to disturb these people, and the general methods for acquiring data."
Some of my best friends are in the Scene, that said such an appeal falls on deaf ears for me here and probably will not do any better elsewhere.

i agree.

 

[SoraK05]

Using the servers of companies is a bad idea. With heavier security going down, the web will be looked upon regarding general negligence.

It is also difficult to allow a public tool to bombard their servers. Freeshop for example wasn't just taken down because it contained a logo. It is difficult to explain and reason why a tool to get games 'one already owns' needs to exist when there is the eShop. Is it really for a GUI and speed?
The main thing, however, which is highly the reason as to why Nintendo 'COULD' DMCA it is because of the need to use external keys, since keys for one's own games will already be on the 3DS.

Ticket files specifically belonging to an individual tied to their account on Nintendo's servers containing the decryption key are already present on the unit. One can redownload a game from the eShop because the ticket file is seen and present on the 3DS, and then when redownloading the key is used to decrypt the game as it comes onto the 3DS. Title Key websites are simply containing the decryption keys for games which one gets from a single 3DS that has purchased the game, and then one can just go onto make a completely fake ticket on CFW 3DS units.
What reason, for downloading 'games one owns', would there even need to be an option in Freeshop to allow for 'external key support'? It looks blatant, and it is slightly disturbing that people don't quite see something like this is somewhat 'too far'. If we are going to go into details, since people have to deal with this subject, this is I think the main one (and I left some time before going into this one since it is the controversial one).

Nintendo believes the freeShop application circumvents Nintendo's protection measures by decrypting the game files accessible from its eShop servers, allowing freeShop users to access and play Nintendo's eShop games for free.

It is, basically this, about the title key option in Freeshop. The logo is a 'secondary' thing.

which further infringes Nintendo's rights.

I still think some software shouldn't be in the public (in the first place).

 

[nero99]

get off your high horse and leave us pirates alone.

 

[SoraK05]

I'm just trying to look out for the general flow from the nature of current affairs. I have an interest in seeing Nintendo succeed, just like people having access to content responsibly.
Nothing personal.

I'm not looking to attack, or behave like I am superior. I think someone should think of the general scope of the situation, and that some things are a little too much.


EDIT:
Can someone btw be able to answer as to whether Freeshop does a plain generic fake ticket for CFW for anything you download. I am wondering if the 'games one already owns' gets overwritten with a fake ticket, and you can't go back onto the eShop as normal since your ticket on the 3DS becomes fake when using it.

 

[TheCruel]

If I had ethical issues with piracy, I may agree or be able to reply to your comments, but I don't. I don't find it ethical to unilaterally force intellectual property onto others. If you want to devise some contract (e.g. NDA) that explicitly forbids someone from sharing stuff or doing something, then I would agree with enforcing that. But owning sounds, words, and ideas isn't something I support, so that debate needs to be settled before I think there are lines that shouldn't be crossed.

Can someone btw be able to answer as to whether Freeshop does a plain generic fake ticket for CFW for anything you download. I am wondering if the 'games one already owns' gets overwritten with a fake ticket, and you can't go back onto the eShop as normal since your ticket on the 3DS becomes fake when using it.

Nope. Nintendo's eShop also permits you to download games using "fake tickets" of games you do not own. You can remove the game after install in freeShop (retaining the ticket) and go right into the eShop and download it again. freeShop is just a reimplementation of their DRM scheme with the same flaws.

 

[MarioMasta64]

get off your high horse and leave us pirates alone.

lol

 

[SoraK05]

If I had ethical issues with piracy, I may agree or be able to reply to your comments, but I don't. I don't find it ethical to unilaterally force intellectual property onto others. If you want to devise some contract (e.g. NDA) that explicitly forbids someone from sharing stuff or doing something, then I would agree with enforcing that. But owning sounds, words, and ideas isn't something I support, so that debate needs to be settled before I think there are lines that shouldn't be crossed.


Nope. Nintendo's eShop also permits you to download games using "fake tickets" of games you do not own. You can remove the game after install in freeShop (retaining the ticket) and go right into the eShop and download it again. freeShop is just a reimplementation of their DRM scheme with the same flaws.

Thanks for replying.
I am aware of the concept of people looking to trademark and reserve their intellectual property to be more fair in the market. I am aware that some software for example which should be generic for use for all can also fall into this category. People need a way to be able to create things and have something fair occur in the market, as well as have some legal agreements. The market is to help people find and buy things.
I know that people who author or create specific material may have an edge, but this isn't quite about that. This is about finding better ways to get one's 'backup material' than straight from the head company themselves and to not make it publicly easy.


https://gbatemp.net/threads/why-not-make-a-ticket-tik-installer.86368/
This thread gives some of the ideas I mean about how people didn't want to rattle Nintendo with making something public to get games from CDN/NUS. It is a GBATemp thread discussing how it isn't a good idea to go 'this far'.
It also mentions that 'bad tickets' will not allow a download to actually work on the Wii Shop.
I don't quite understand how a ticket can be 'fine', even if fake, if it doesn't contain appropriate RSA and hash information for example. Fake tickets are usually blank, so there is no signature or console specific information for Nintendo's shop to check.

I saw a video from 'Flare Games' and learned that making a 'good ticket' which installed will allow one to download the game from the eShop. Can you tell me what a 'good' and 'bad' ticket is about? I didn't think on the Wii it was possible to be able to redownload games without the correct ticket. I do recall experimenting with the Wii and the Wii Shop would block a download even if it was the correct title key if the entire ticket was not proper (like on their server). I just learned (and saw) that making a 'good' fake can work on the 3DS, and I'm thinking of how these things work regarding discrepancy.
http://gbatemp.net/threads/tutorial...-tickets-for-eshop-downloads-per-game.426478/


I generally would like some information on this, and if indeed freeShop can damage and overwrite pristine original bought tickets on the 3DS, since it may be more unfortunate. It would be one of the first things I'd want to know before installing it, and I couldn't find anything on 'original ticket' when searching. It is an important detail to tackle because of the need to go into some detail and dealing with the general situation, so it is reasonable to deal with it. It is the only main thing to know regarding freeShop, besides perhaps confirming if freeShop is like a browser using a database and cache with direct links to CDN/NUS and does something intelligent like get a TMD and then check for contents. Some of these details go towards the scope.
I am currently too busy and with my circumstances unable to do testing. After this, I think I can write one more long post to include extra details about this topic, and have enough information in the thread to deal with the basic overview.

Any information about these is appreciated, towards the last general post. If there is anything you (TheCruel) would specifically like to add or discuss as I write that last general post, feel free to let me know.


I think because of the approaching crux in the world that having something with details like this thread that can be reliable and in the middle is a good thing to have described, towards some shifts which will need to be made around. I would just like to be a little more thorough, considering also that freeShop is the first to 'fall', and have something to work with, including to look after people involved in freeShop (and in some ways how it shouldn't have existed).
I think something clear can assist with an improvement to avoid things like the DMCA that happened, and to proceeding from the current era.

I can say already that software like freeShop which looks to get things straight from CDN/NUS, or even if it was another server altogether and not a company server, are not going to go down well It is part of our times.

I thought people would have agreed years ago that something like this already is stretching it. I suppose it took more publicly available title keys to begin.

 

[Coto]

I support @SoraK05 , partially at least.

1)
I believe we as developers / programmers / reverse engineers must even know when to say "this is not correct, it´s time to step up". I buy all my 3ds cart games, and while I have 3 3DSes, one homebrew´d, i use e-shop for DEMOs and why not, I program emulators as hobby (meaning they would NOT compete against own brew nintendo emulators), also if nintendo ever arrived saying to remove all my work, I would because I respect them in the end. After all they have the legal rights of their own IP characters, infraestructure, and any corporation / end user worldwide must support or respect or obey this rule.

I imagine game developers spending their entire life programming video games, and in the end the game gets leaked. You would get a distributable source on the internet, but because why not, better get the games directly from nintendo servers! I mean is people actually aware of what that means? Legally if you connected to their servers using CFW they have enough legal backup evidence to ban, dmca or even take you to courtroom.

I think nintendo has been quiet for years, about how underground development has released various romhacks, except, they now have begun to DMCA / C & D such activities.

But now using their own servers for -...Backups?? That's something... totally unacceptable to my eyes. I don´t care if the ticket system had a flaw or whatever.
Given recent luck on WiiU little success, 3DS is what they have made money off. 3DS´s success makes money for nintendo.

Freeshop kills that success right now.


2)
There is a community out there of programmers (like me) that nintendo is aware of. This software literally says that ALL hacking involved is wrong. Thus all communities involved are bad.
Hacking is NOT wrong, because it´s plain programming with some degree of machine learning(reverse engineering).
I appreciate the effort/life invested by many of the reverse engineers since that has allowed us to create amazing stuff.
But it has been known to respect certain "bounds" of the grey area, specifically:
"as long the activity involved does not affect CURRENTLY big companies in a BAD WAY, it´s OK", even within these circles.

I would like this balance to continue the way it is.

As for:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/why-not-make-a-ticket-tik-installer.86368/

it´s how it's always been.

So Freeshop:
You hack stuff, but don´t leech roms off a big company server and use a GUI so users can circumvent their security.

 

[FAST6191]

I support @SoraK05 , partially at least.

1)
I program emulators as hobby (meaning they would NOT compete against own brew nintendo emulators), also if nintendo ever arrived saying to remove all my work, I would because I respect them in the end. After all they have the legal rights of their own IP characters, infraestructure, and any corporation / end user worldwide must support or respect or obey this rule.

2)
There is a community out there of programmers (like me) that nintendo is aware of. This software literally says that ALL hacking involved is wrong. Thus all communities involved are bad.
Hacking is NOT wrong, because it´s plain programming with some degree of machine learning(reverse engineering).
I appreciate the effort/life invested by many of the reverse engineers since that has allowed us to create amazing stuff.
But it has been known to respect certain "bounds" of the grey area, specifically:
"as long the activity involved does not affect CURRENTLY big companies in a BAD WAY, it´s OK", even within these circles.

Trimmed, but hopefully not in a way that forces misinterpretation.

An interesting position to take, certainly not one I would go in for though.

Programming an emulator that competes with Nintendo's, or any other nominal owner of a closed system I might be playing with, does not even register for me as something to avoid.
If they release a version of a game via an emulator (or remake) I could see something for someone as far as not improving that emulator for that game, if we are still in the game specific hacks and workarounds regime of emulation programming anyway, but that is something I would be stunned to see be any kind of universal belief among emulator programmers.

On Nintendo saying "on your bike" then it might not be the hill I die upon (I don't know if I would go bankrupt and/or on the run over it), I would take a bloody nose before I did though.
They certainly have the rights to their own IP and characters, and to not have their infrastructure bothered but emulators have largely been ruled legal (Sony vs Bleem was generally held to go Bleem's way, even if the company went down before the ruling), and as they have many uses other than pure infringement a ban is not likely to hold up.
Equally worldwide is a tricky prospect. Before you even get into the minefield that is international IP law (Europe has some fairly trans national stuff for most aspects of IP but a patent in Europe means very little in the US) then you also have things like http://www.ip-watch.org/2013/01/28/...gainst-us-by-suspending-ip-rights-protection/

On "bad way" then still no. I can happily make something that utterly beats an offering from a company such that nobody will really use it and feel not a thing, and there have been plenty of instances of companies releasing something a bit locked down and making their money on the software/service tied to it for someone else to come along, blow it all apart and then have the original company's venture fail as a result. There are things I would not do as it is clearly taking the piss, one of those being using Nintendo's bandwidth to pull commercial code and install it, but to say bad way like that is far too strong a line in the sand for me.

 

[SoraK05]

So here is that general 'final post'.
I should write that this is intended for all, including Nintendo.

I know from the many angles people come, like Nintendo or authorities or mainstream people, there are some hands that are tied which restrict things from being written. I know there is a reliance for many people to look at existing legal work or word of mouth with internet/street smart. Some of the things which are written come from a person like me.


I ask that this thread can be treated like an anonymous writing to build upon, and don't past my name around the Internet. I would like to go back to my life and for things to work out underground. Thanks
FEEL FREE TO ADD, EXPOUND OR ADJUST THE TEXT FOR WHAT PEOPLE WILL DO.

I didn't necessarily have a lot of time, and I am quite busy, so this is what I put together considering some general haste about the situation and to deal with things sooner than later. I think it covers the basic outline.

This post is mainly covering the DMCA.

It is split into 4 different segments:

1) Main Essence
2) Secondary Essence
3) The Solution / Miscellaneous
4) Addendum: Copyrighting Material


- 1) Main Essence
The main essence of the entire post is about the DMCA, and about the fact that Nintendo could not have been underhanded. In a day and age like today's, for all intents and purposes the DMCA is completely legitimate. There is no way Nintendo is somehow above to do 'strange maneuvers', and cannot come down as though from Heaven. With the legal eyes observing, Nintendo cannot operate as though they are above in a strange maneouver. Nintendo isn't SEGA, Sony, MicroSoft, and is considered somewhat unique and is why they do things like C&Ds where some others don't, but still (this isn't too relevant to the case of the DMCA though).

Nintendo knows about not being underhanded already (from many years of experience and things happening, and they already tried to clamp down in the GBA era, where things were getting 'too easy'). Nintendo is also not 'very slow' - they just don't like to sit on information. They can also not do 'awkward maneuvers (like in court)'.


Nintendo's head(s) didn't likely have to do much or say much for their team to know this is 'wrong'. This is one of the main points I would like to illustrate, and for TheCruel, being the first person to be affected by a DMCA from the nature of the circumstances. Surely their team didn't want to 'disturb' the head(s) either, knowing something like this is considered too far, and is something I would recommend as the point to get. I'm sure they aren't trying to pressure your head like to torture you (TheCruel). Their head(s) didn't need to shout down at the team, nor are they looking to tear you (TheCruel) away from GBATemp. These few points generally cover the main basics.


The DMCA happened because of how things become too obvious with a situation like this one. Where one is strictly supposed to use a software for backups only, in the situation of doing so from one's own 3DS, one can already do this with the eShop. There should be generally no reason to use a homebrew to retrieve backups. If a homebrew was made, it could be argued about an excuse of GUI or speed. However, with the fact that keys are needed (mandatory) for backups to use freeShop which should already have keys on the 3DS, it makes it appear counterproductive and deceitful. It does definitely look like it enables piracy, and without good reason as to why to use freeShop and even why it needs keys.
Nintendo isn't going to encourage using a software like freeShop on a 'second' 3DS you may have in order to easily copy your backups to the second 3DS. Nintendo will not officially allow or encourage this, so this isn't a good enough reason either. If one lost their tickets for some odd reason, it isn't Nintendo's fault from a default 3DS, and I think there is a way for the eShop to redownload one's original tickets from their server. To the observers out there, it looks like there is not general reason Nintendo should encourage this or allow it.

In the past, many people have known to use secondary tools which people are already aware of, in the instance that one would want to put backups on a 'second' 3DS, such as CIAs. My point is people are not unfamiliar with taking an extra step or two because of how the system works when it comes to the nature of hacking and homebrew. People have been used to multiple steps even on the Nintendo Wii, where if they get a new Wii they replace their WADs on the system. One cannot expect much from Nintendo, and extra steps have 'passed' (even in a shaky manner with Nintendo). People have understood that extra steps are mandatory when dealing with hacking and homebrew. This step being removed doesn't make it fine because of the newer era and crux approaching and the things that are to be dealt with now. With the nature of this development in the world of using something like CDN/NUS, it is an obvious point unlike some situations in the past where it is something to 'avoid'.

There is generally some expectation from Nintendo that there is an awareness of how things have been, and how extra steps are needed. When an obvious point like this comes, where there isn't much of an excuse to support freeShop existing even for 'homebrew purposes' (including how Nintendo shouldn't encourage backups to be put on a 'secondary' 3DS as a stretch, as though 'key support' is needed for it), it is acknowledged that it is as though it is intentional and as though it shouldn't have happened. It is because even with skipping steps there isn't a general legit reason. It is a circumstance of its own kind where it DOES LOOK OBVIOUS. This is why I write of why it looks deceitful and intentional regarding how it shouldn't have happened.

GBATemp skipping steps does not make it fine.


I would like to help TheCruel at this point see that Nintendo is not underhanded. They are legally unable to be underhanded. They were not underhanded from the beginning with the software was made in May (it took 7 months for the DMCA). They were not underhanded in general (either) as though to bring something (unexpected) from the side. They cannot 'fake' something underhanded as though it is from above. They were not trying to trick you (TheCruel).

***** It is simply not possible for Nintendo to fake introducing something, and certainly not as evidence or something to include. *****
With a topic that is the first of its kind like this, and of the nature of dealing with this situation in the world which is to be fair as a rule and help support all manufacturers as something to look to, there must have been many rereads.

The reason for the delay is that Nintendo wanted analysis, and to give 'a free choice' regarding TheCruel to 'not start or begin / continue with freeShop'. Nintendo I'm sure will say 'they didn't want to put TheCruel down (psychologically)' regarding the delay, but this is the main thing. The DMCA was 'finalized' for helping encourage others to not settle / be used to using CDN/NUS.

The DMCA came about (the strength) to not encourage people disseminating CDN/NUS content.

The DMCA is 'legal' and Nintendo have full protection because they didn't 'look to hunt TheCruel from the beginning and dropping hints', and more importantly, surely towards the DMCA launching they didn't drop any hints. I'm sure this of a lot of things got a priority at the top to have strict silence before it occured.


Regarding the ticket creation with freeShop which 'shouldn't generally legally be', I was wondering if it is possible original legit bought tickets can get overwritten with this software. Some people may be upset looking to get their original tickets back from Nintendo if this is the case, because it becomes easier to see a large flood of people looking to recover their tickets using some eShop feature to retrieve them back, but it looks worse regarding Nintendo having extra cause to persue negligence and recklessness on the part of TheCruel for also damaging legally obtained and proper authentic tickets (without the awareness of the public). This again, is somewhat new and a first to homebrew because of this era and people doing things like using CDN/NUS publicly, and is something Nintendo can look to work on regarding 'further damage to a 3DS'. It does potentially open up something, about a disregard for legal tickets and their digital system which needs collaboration with developers.



- 2) Secondary Essence
The secondary part of the post is that Nintendo is surely not one sided. It is the 'moral' TheCruel will 'learn' if things went further like to court.
To help TheCruel, Nintendo cannot fake e-mails and things coming into Nintendo. The public can help Nintendo not remain too still.

THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT OF THIS ENTIRE POST, AND OF THE DMCA AND SURROUNDING TOPICS IS THAT NINTENDO DOES NOT WANT TO BE ONE SIDED. One (TheCruel) can also learn that Nintendo is not underhanded. It should be acknowledged that 'generally in the open to the observer, Nintendo does not want to put pressure', to not encourage people to leave them and steal games.

Nintendo did not try to bring the games to you. They definitely did not encourage you to play them as pirates (and even to an extent backups/preservation), and is the main point of the secondary essence. It links to Nintendo not wanting to set up the public. In short, Nintendo does not want others to pirate and it is part of their official establishment. Nintendo does indeed want to listen, and even has a section about 'anti-piracy' where one can e-mail. I'm sure they obviously don't want others to abuse it with a topic like this.
Nintendo have an established e-mailing system that is not only specifically about piracy of games only, and is why Nintendo will say they didn't want to put TheCruel down. They don't want others to pirate games, and is why the secondary essence is that Nintendo is not one sided. Nintendo does not 'want' things to be on one side, to not mess with the brains of public people.

Nintendo have established their anti-piracy infrastructure like to communicate in order to support the fact that they don't want others to pirate games. It also shows like to 'legal eyes' that they don't want to hide and pirate themselves. Nintendo do like to listen, and I'm sure they can get a lot of mail, to which some they will not listen. It doesn't mean they want to put others down, but sometimes it is about their not wanting others to hide pirate material.

Nintendo know that they cannot raise others up to be better people and players if they encourage piracy. Their facility for anti-piracy and of not being one sided is a way that Nintendo does not want to put pressure on others. It is part of their interest to listen and have an anti-piracy infrastructure on their website. They don't want to fake boost people up with encouraging piracy.


***** The main point to expound upon regarding the second essence is that Nintendo does not want to mess with the brains of the public.

It regards helping Nintendo not get fake messages to their anti-piracy e-mail infrastructure. It is like, if Nintendo does not want to mess with the brains of the public, the public shouldn't mess with them. Help them otherwise in general not learn and get fake information to not adjust things like games inappropriately. The public does help Nintendo to learn, including to not get tricked like with GBATemp. *****
Nintendo doesn't want people to settle in the same way, and wants to encourage change and adopting. They cannot fake bringing in games for the public at the wrong level, and needs feedback and observation of the public in order to learn from and make products for.

THE POINT OF THEIR NOT WANTING TO MESS WITH THE BRAINS OF THE PUBLIC, ABOUT THEIR NOT WANTING TO BE ONE SIDED, IS FOR THE PUBLIC TO NOT (ATTEMPT OR) TRICK THEM. Nintendo do a lot of things so that the public does not want to return the games, and have learned a lot of things I am certain regarding 'creativity'.

It is about not fake boosting while also encouraging piracy. IT IS BECAUSE NINTENDO DOES NOT (NECESSARILY) WANT TO TRICK THE PUBLIC. I'm sure Nintendo as a gaming company doesn't want to get things to the public 'too fast'.
Nintendo I'm sure thinks it helps people 'think better' if they buy proper material. I'm sure they want people to do things like read the manuals (and is part of the reason they setup an anti-piracy infrastructure on their website and to listen). THEY CANNOT FAKE PUTTING PRESSURE ON THE PUBLIC. I'm sure in reading the manuals, they don't want people to necessarily go and give it to friends, and help avoid friends not getting a copy or pirating. Nintendo would want people to learn simple things like to more common sense. One cannot generally trick Nintendo if they wrote things to the anti-piracy e-mail service. This is so I can encourage TheCruel to not put pressure on Nintendo.


***** I would generally encourage Nintendo to not put pressure on any. *****


AS ONE MAIN POINT TO HELP THECRUEL, IT WOULD BE THAT NINTENDO DID (DOES) NOT WANT TO PUT THECRUEL DOWN. If there was a point to help TheCruel about something for Nintendo, it is that Nintendo does not necessarily always listen. It is about their not settling to one fixed spot. It is an open 'hole' that all of the public can help Nintendo regarding not being too fixed.

Nintendo cannot falsify something appearing and then take it away, as a general help for TheCruel. It is more about the initial appearance, and it means Nintendo cannot play with fake boosting. If things went to court, just know that Nintendo and legal teams usually like to listen, and in order for them to not retort hard (about the retorting).



***** More to the point, they most certainly do not want to be one sided to not mess with the brains of others, because they don't want to put pressure on others. Their not wanting to be one sided introduces their not wanting to put pressure. In a nutshell, help Nintendo to not hear fake information about hacking (in their anti-piracy e-mail infrastructure), in order for them to not put pressure. *****


----------
To side track a little, I am personally interested in spiritual and religious study, and Kabbalah, to not veer and to stay on track (similarly to not being one sided) ('to follow morals'). Some 'structural morals are indeed universal' (to not fake flow coming in (like with speed), 'no trickery', which leads one to think God is good, and that God does no wrong). I know 'listening' is important (like in the beginning of the Bible with Hebrew being made and then God speaking, to be heard). There are some things one shouldn't hear (associating to not faking flow coming in, for one to not 'misplace something'). I have generally learned a fair amount.
Structure helps show one 'can actually help others'. God helps others 'not get lost'.
I think about faithful and otherwise moral and structural behavior which with some 'blindness' is to not put others down. I will generally be moving on after this 'final' post. I am acting, and from where I am coming from, in general from my not being interested in setting others up.

At this time, one single piece of advice about morals and structure is 'to not think with the brain too much'. I'm writing these things to go on with my life after the post, for things to work on in the underground, and give some background to myself and part of my approach and the things I write.
----------


There is no third 'essence' of the post because Nintendo did not want to put TheCruel down. They didn't want him to become a 'hacking genius'. They don't legally have to explain this. They can still 'have fun with TheCruel' (like playing video games). Just know about this 'non existent third essence' that Nintendo didn't want to set TheCruel up.
This detail about there being no third essence is a controversial detail which can get someone like TheCruel into trouble. It is linked to learning that Nintendo is not underhanded. It is that Nintendo cannot act and 'cheat' from a strange higher place. Nintendo cannot fake boost TheCruel. It is important to know that Nintendo is definitely not higher as a point to acknowledge, and that to authorities, all companies must be generally level. A company cannot act like Nintendo however, even being above, unless there were people below (like TheCruel) and cannot do things independently if things went to a courtroom. If TheCruel did attempt to attack Nintendo, Nintendo will not get taken down, and cannot necessarily bully. TheCruel cannot 'confuse' Nintendo if in a courtroom. TheCruel cannot obviously change their mind regarding not supporting piracy. IF THERE WAS A THIRD ESSENCE, IT WOULD BE THAT NINTENDO DOESN'T WANT TO FAKE BOOST OTHER PEOPLE, SO THEY CAN REMAIN CONSTANT AT PLAYING VIDEO GAMES (another reason they setup the anti-piracy infrastructure). This topic is controversial because of not making someone look 'blatantly like a pirate'.


I know from the many angles people come, like Nintendo or authorities or mainstream people, there are some hands that are tied which restrict things from being written. I know there is a reliance for many people to look at existing legal work or word of mouth with internet/street smart. Some of the things which are written come from a person like me.

***** If there is one thing I'm sure Nintendo would have wanted TheCruel to know, it is that they couldn't have set TheCruel up. This is my personal contribution for Nintendo specifically. If I were to assist Nintendo, it would be to mention that Nintendo cannot fake boost TheCruel, and it is for myself also to help not encourage fake information or devices going to Nintendo. I know Nintendo recently made it possible for hackers to assist them with payment for finding security flaws, and it should be for me to encourage not to give fake things to Nintendo. Regarding their anti-piracy e-mail service, I would encourage not sending them fake things. It is also for me to focus on manufacturing, and that because of the nature of computers and their being limited, there are some aspects regarding hacking that even if a staff member told another staff member something about it will not matter too much, and specifically that there are things the head(s) cannot do.

This message is for Nintendo to know that they cannot get stuck in the process at manufacturing with the updating and change to the newer era. It is not the head(s) that directly tell the staff what to code/put into the system. It doesn't matter if it is 'discless'. Nintendo doesn't have to think too much about this. This segment is to help acknowledge that there are some things the head(s) do not have responsibility about, because they don't tell the programmers what to write. The excuse is that the head(s) cannot trick the programmer. The main thing is for head(s) to not be too slow regarding giving direction to the programmers. The head(s) cannot go 'over the heads' of the programmers in a way. Things should not get 'stuck' when it comes from 'the manufacturers to the head(s) structure', and is at this point Nintendo can have trouble. I should mention there are things that the head(s) cannot tell the programmers to do because it is not actually possible. I should also say that to the programmers at Nintendo, it is not the head(s) fault. The head(s) have to give a go-ahead to the programmers, and is where the 'block' occurs and where business can continue.

There are things in the public already about hacking that programmers can refer. There is some public information the head(s) can refer to know that the programmers cannot fake (intentionally) when programming. The head(s) don't need to keep too close a watch on the programmers. Programmers already with the progress that has happened in the world cannot write some things 'new like a magic code'. Publicly already, there are ways programmers cannot 'trick' the head(s).

If one piece of advice to not block production and business, it is that 'to the programmers, not all is the fault of the head(s)'. The head(s) should not advertise their security to be better than it is, regarding acknowledged advancement about hacking.*****

I'm not interested in people chasing Nintendo.

Personally, I would say that Nintendo does not want to go to court, to not set TheCruel up. They evidently didn't want to simmer TheCruel like on GBATemp. This does relate to the mandatory silence they needed to have legal protection about the DMCA.



- 3) The Solution / Miscellaneous
I began with the overall solution to which I have put some work, about 'not breaking a game, the chain starting with the game company like Nintendo first to not put pressure on others about piracy, and to not attract piracy, and the reason is to not make games politically correct light/fluffy'. It is for the people around 'under' to help a game company like Nintendo not 'get stuck'.

With more money flow, it means better games all around. Game companies are meant to have 'equal opportunity' to have purchases. More money flow enables an overall assurance that people are more able and interested in purchasing games, and scales adjust.



Otherwise, the solution with regards to the DMCA situation, and not downloading from CDN/NUS or another server with a software like freeShop (even though this particular DMCA is about associating to CDN/NUS) is 'to not focus all downloads in one place' (including for my piracy fan).

get off your high horse and leave us pirates alone.

It is to not get all backups from the same location, and about 'piling the backups in it'. This means not focusing on CDN/NUS, or even multiple private servers with a single software like freeShop showing a list of different servers/mirrors. Data must be spread out, and not accessible from one single software making the point relatively redundant.

It is because of people not looking to set Nintendo up, which it does look like, as though they will act first. Nintendo are not to condone 'bringing the material to others', and Nintendo have the capability to refuse this and get a DMCA.

IT REVOLVES AROUND THEIR (NINTENDO/COMPANY) NOT BRINGING THE CONTENT TO OTHERS.

Not using NUS/CDN or a private server are both about Nintendo not 'bringing the material to one'. It is for people not to confuse a company like Nintendo. By using these things if done, it is like people place Nintendo closer to them in a (set) location closer towards them than 50%. By bringing a company like Nintendo closer to one, it means it is like the people are threatening or provoking Nintendo as though it appears they are confirming that piracy is acceptable. Their ability to refuse and deny this 'legally' is to help avoid this situation from the position that Nintendo is actually capable. It is more on the people to not provoke than Nintendo in this scenario from 'general combinations of piracy/hacking/preservation/backups' and the ability to download nowadays with more advanced technology and hacks from CDN/NUS more easily. It is worse to take it from a company like Nintendo from CDN/NUS than a public server because Nintendo is the company itself (closer to the company).

Where 'not focusing all downloads in one location' is related to not making it look like people set up the company like Nintendo, it should be said that TheCruel did not want to intentionally set up the head of Nintendo or attack, and is why TheCruel should be 'safe' (visible on GBATemp for example). TheCruel should 'listen' around to legal advice pertaining the surrounding topic, and not look to boost or promote / encourage freeShop (which shouldn't happen because of the DMCA anyway).

THERE IS STILL LEGAL WORK AND THINGS TO MANIFEST AND HAPPEN OVER SOME TIME AROUND. THIS INCLUDES READJUSTMENTS IN THE SCENE, LEGAL TEAMS, AND PLACES LIKE GBATEMP.
I should encourage TheCruel to not put pressure on Nintendo (like to help them not get stuck according to my 'global solution'). Nintendo were not trying to be sneaky. I am sure Nintendo wants you (TheCruel) to play games.


With regards to the 'global solution', Nintendo cannot hide games, and is why they are higher on the priority / hierarchy regarding the solution chain. The chain is such that it is for the company to not put pressure or attract piracy (simply), and for people to help them not get stuck.

Regarding moving on from this current era, it should be said that I think sooner or later the 'global solution' will start to be and dealt with, where it is for the people to not put down the company (like Nintendo).


*****
It should be said, to be responsible, that Nintendo has reasonably taken quite a serious hit with the absolute ease of being able to download virtually any 3DS eShop game for free and easily. It means many may have gotten units or people without a lot of games got to use freeShop. It does imply quite a drastic hit from the way things worked out and the nature of a software like freeShop. TheCruel has to acknowledge that a software like this can do something like this, even 'towards the end of the 3DS cycle'. It is this that can leave some general watching from Nintendo to a person like TheCruel (or others).
It would be responsible to encourage a form of tutorial or guide with recommendations as to how to uninstall and remove games completely, including the tickets, and to assist people to legitimately be able to buy games without software blocks.
*****


I should mention that an important point in this scenario. It is to do with the fact that there is a culture or people who pirate or are used to hacks for years. In TheCruel's defense, it is common that 'pirates are going to do it anyway, and pirates will seize the opportunity especially because of the new title key collection and CDN/NUS information to do something like this'. I can understand, even though some other software similar to freeShop does exist and existed, the notion of 'if I don't make it, someone else will'. There were no general clear ethics, and if anything a software like freeShop helped to give data to proceed with this coming era.
FreeShop was the most sophisticated and polished form of a software, and definitely the first of its kind to have a mainstream appeal (and ease). It is no surprise that Nintendo would want to target something like this first. I wouldn't necessarily take it personally (TheCruel) because I am sure Nintendo know that story of 'if I don't, someone else will'. Times can adjust, and some tutorials and changes can be made around to accomodate awareness of the newer era/crux approaching and how to deal with it, including ethics (such as is the attempt of this entire thread).


With the nature of the new era, it is a time for some change (including time for legal things to happen).
I think as the opportunity is here, I can define some of the implications of the 'newer crux/era approaching'. It involves many years of experience between companies, sceners and hackers in general. It involves things which 'people should know' as part of the experience. It involves willingness to adjust and change over time, where technology improves (like better internet). It involves recognition that heavier security is going down, and it is becoming easier to hack (which for computers which are limited anyway means there needs to be some more awareness of being responsible). It involves recognition that hackers may not be so ethical and develop something to take data from CDN/NUS or even a private server(s), which is 'obviously to the legal eyes a no from being obvious'.
People have been used to hunting for CIA/WAD/ISOs for years, so people can remain used to it. People should be looking to 'ween off piracy' as it is, even with the general life circumstances people have like poverty, 'testing games', or 'I will pay when I am richer'.

One thinks that there may come a time like now after a general collection of events like the crux/era that is approaching (because of advancements in hacking and the need to be responsible for newer things that can be done easier like CDN/NUS, and to look at a responsibility regarding the general flow of sceners/preservationists as well, and the need for 'good/better behavior' to be addressed and ideally more money spent all around because of hacking becoming easier and more known), a time would come that pirates would need to step up and start spending more money. It is hard to say that considering multiple things, including additional watch on sceners/preservationists, that starting to spend more money now and the fact that it is not going to go well regarding being fairly certain that things relating to a single source/easy source like CDN/NUS or a private server (or a few in one consolidated software) would hurt. If anything, I think it is appropriate for people to take the time to think about the newer times, and to look to generally intend and think about peace.

It should be noteworthy that when people do start spending more money because of times and awareness that an incoming crux/era calls for (some) change around (with decency and respect, and patience for things to work out), there will be observation as to where the money goes. Nintendo I'm sure will want first dibs about 'where people spending more money actually goes', since it is reasonable between all the console manufacturers out there that Nintendo does even with its uniqueness seem most eligible for the worst.



This was mainly regarding the 'bubble' of not using CDN/NUS or a private server(s), since it will not go well and is a general 'no'. Regarding hacking advancing and there being more 'laymen', programmers don't always have to go to the 'head of the hack' and so programmers should have some decency and discretion. Look to not release things which can be damaging, and things like 'main hacks' are known to not release. Perhaps think about the scope of a thread like this and look to be more reasonable. I know times around need to adjust and some things like legal happenings are to take place for the newer state of our progress to come. I know this isn't directly relevant to the DMCA situation, but it is decent to mention in the thread since I have the opportunity and to consolidate relevant information for proceeding.





The rest of this third segment I would like to dedicate to some general writing to help TheCruel.
I am sure you (TheCruel) didn't want to 'stick it' to the top man of Nintendo. This is my main point for you. If I were you, don't make Nintendo look 'so dumb'. It is possible you read some legal things wrong.
I would recommend not becoming aggressive and to attempt to screw Nintendo. Nintendo will be wanting to observe something regarding you not wanting 'to steal games' (and know that Nintendo generally is adamant about not encouraging piracy).
I recommend you to have an open mind to adjust to the times and to newer things as they come.

I am sure Nintendo was not just boiling up and preparing to come down on you from the start (May). I don't think they were attmepting to screw you from the beginning. I don't think they were attempting to put pressure down half way until the DMCA was released.

***** IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO KNOW THAT I AM SURE NINTENDO WAS NOT LOOKING TO PRESSURE YOU AND IT WAS NOT INTENTIONAL, AS THOUGH TO NOT HEAR 'SILLY EXCUSES'. I am sure they would have wanted to prepare that if for some reason anything happened relating to court that, from the freshness and first of its kind circumstance, you would not get stuck in a courtroom. I think after enough time and delay to release a DMCA, it is to help you to not encourage piracy. You can help Nintendo not pressure. I am sure if things ended up in a courtroom of a sort, Nintendo would not be underhanded. *****

If you were to walk away with a point about this segment, it is that I'm sure Nintendo didn't want to pressure you. They weren't trying to be underhanded. I am sure they weren't trying to pressure you from the beginning. There would be some kind of evidence like on GBATemp if they were attempting to pressure you (even though their silence contributed to their legal protection regarding the DMCA).
Know that the anti-piracy team of Nintendo's would not operate without some confirmation from the head(s). I am sure they weren't trying to 'screw you' first. It would be obvious that Nintendo was sequentially approaching you over time like on GBATemp.

I am sure Nintendo did not attempt to pressure you to not put you down (psychologically) (and would be part of their reason for the delay as mentioned above). I am sure they didn't want you to become scared. I don't think they wanted you to 'eat it'. Nintendo does not linger and watch threads, because they have too much to do.


If there was one single main point for you, it is that they were not coming to target you specifically (along the way / in the beginning). They already know not to encourage piracy, and weren't going to change their minds. I don't think they want you to go away as a customer.

I think you are in a position to help Nintendo not be 'too consistent' and help them not think they are 'too brainy'.
One thing for you to learn is not all things have to go to the head, and the team below can operate with some things independantly (and it is their job to scout first to not screw someone like you over). This situation is the first of its kind.


IF THINGS DID SOMEHOW END UP IN A COURTROOM, KNOW THAT LEGAL TEAMS AND LIKE NINTENDO LIKE TO LISTEN. I ENCOURAGE YOU TO LISTEN WHEN PEOPLE SPEAK/WRITE.

I DON'T THINK YOU ARE ALREADY 'CAUGHT'. I DON'T THINK NINTENDO WANTS TO GO TO A COURTROOM.



- 4) Addendum: Copyrighting Material
As it came up about copyrighting material, and I mentioned a few things, here is something specifically to think about.
When you see a large collection of writers, they are not intentionally looking to plagiarize. Listen to this as this is the reason (example and image, but goes directly) why copyrighting is acceptable to those observing law. The market (therefore) exists, and there is not much you (TheCruel) can do. The job of people working with copyrighting is to ensure that there are no two / double of the same. It can help 'get you off'.


This thread and about the DMCA is more about 'Nintendo not bringing content to others' regarding CDN/NUS, and even private servers as is the 'bubble' of using a software like freeShop and taking things from a 'single piled source' like CDN/NUS or private server(s) (in one software). Backups should be spread regarding 'Nintendo's checking machine', and don't bring them closer to a seeming 'set up on them' location beyond 60%.


[EDIT] I should add as I forgot, but is something to be kept on the 'downlow' is that 'Nintendo is not 'too cool', and they are businessmen (not to be taken too seriously)'. They cannot simply get others in trouble unnecessarily.