Hacking GateWay 3DS?

[Huntereb]

Danjal The fact that people are able to run twenty games on a card that supposedly was only able to run ten is proof that the limit isn't because of hardware limitations. I'm not sure why you feel like supporting their choice, we all knew how bad this card was. But for some reason, you still bought it.

 

[piratesephiroth]

Correct... They *COULD HAVE*.

I'm not talking hypotheticals or alternate realities here though - I'm saying can the CURRENT card do it or not.
If it can't, then its a technical limitation of the CURRENT CARD.
Not of the technology, of the card itself.

Its two seperate statements:
"Its not a technical limitation because they could've made a better card."
"It IS a technical limitation because they chose to use inferior hardware."
Its possible to create a card that doesn't have the limitation, but this card does have the limitation.

Yeah that's correct. And since it's a poorly implemented limitation it's possible to bypass it by ejecting the card while it's reading the games.
Of course that trick has issues but it clearly demonstrates the limitation is artificial and more than 10 different games can work on the card.

In other words they're scammers and no one should buy that product.

 

[Danjal]

Danjal The fact that people are able to run twenty games on a card that supposedly was only able to run ten is proof that the limit isn't because of hardware limitations. I'm not sure why you feel like supporting their choice, we all knew how bad this card was. But for some reason, you still bought it.

I don't support their choice, I think its a horrible concept. Acknowledging facts is not the same as supporting something.

However my opinion does not change the reality.
People have been able to run "twenty games" in an unstable mode.
The card loads them up, but doesn't maintain save functionality and the method used is liable to break your SD card by corrupting it.

Seems to me that that isn't an ideal solution.
Just because you're of the opinion that its a horrible decision and that they are greedy (which I agree is completely correct).
Does not suddenly turn this glitch into a stable method to load more than the 10 games in a stable fashion.

In other words - is it possible to use the method applied by the SKY3DS card to create a card that doesn't have the 10 game limit?
Yes, by all accounts that would be possible... And I urge everyone NOT to buy SKY3DS or its competitors cards that have this 10-game-limit because its dispicable.
That however does not change the fact that the cards still have that limit.
This technical limit that was put there intentionally. Likely motivated through greed one way or another.

 

[williamcesar2]

prove to us they didn't it on purpose


EDITED: Hallelujah! he changed his mind !

 

[Danjal]

prove to us they didn't it on purpose

You didn't read did you?

I'm not saying they did or didn't do it on purpose... (Infact I acknowledge that its pretty likely that its done on purpose.)
Does doing it on purpose somehow change the fact that the current card can not load more than 10 games *IN A STABLE FASHION* without relying on a card-corrupting glitch?
Because for all the claims that "Its not a technical limitation."
I've yet to see a single example of someone that went beyond the 10 game limit without relying on the glitch.
The glitch that is liable to break your SD card aswell as doesn't allow you to save your progress normally by all accounts.

Intentional or not, greedy or not - that doesn't alter the fact that nobody (as far as I'm aware) has been able to either re-write the 10 game limit or break it without resorting to a potentially damaging glitch that loads the game in an unstable fashion.
Which has nothing to do with opinion or support - and everything with objective observation.


And more importantly, thats not even relevant to this thread. Which got thoroughly derailed.
Since Gateway is unlikely to suffer the same restrictions.

 

[RustInPeace]

I'm completely with the OP as I'm very interested in Gateway, and have the money to get it. However, is it worth it? By all readings, I see Gateway as the thing to buy, especially for a Pokemon only (sometimes SSB) player such as myself with wanting to see how PKHEX works. I just would like confirmation from multiple, experienced people, on Gateway's worth. All this chatter about Sky3DS effectively turned me away from that product. The 10 game limit doesn't bother me, again, only a Pokemon player here. I have the newest update on my 2 3DS XLs, so that's another thing, is it worth buying just to wait for the necessary compatibility for 9.2, if they will actually release it?

 

[hippy dave]

Jesus fucking Christ, not another thread of this circular nightmare.

 

[gamesquest1]

People have managed to run 11 games through a GLITCH...
A glitch that by all accounts is liable to not only break the game, but also your SD card by corrupting it and more importantly a glitch that does not allow you to save your games properly.

People have NOT managed to run 11 or more games in a stable and consistent manner without relying on said glitch however...
Note the key difference...
Now perhaps you feel that using such a glitch somehow proves a point - but purposefully ruining your hardware isn't a particularly adequate method to prove a point.

So I maintain my request - show me a SINGLE example of someone who consistently runs 11 or more games on their SKY/R5 in a stable and consistent manner without relying on a glitch. Not only running 11 games, but doing so without resorting to the glitch that breaks the SD card and doing so with having functional saves for all games.
If you can't, then your claim that the limitation is 'fake' is not based on facts, but rather on the flawed assumption that this glitch somehow proves something.


You make take notice that R5 actually put official word out on their page detailing how the glitch works and what its downsides are.
Yes, you can get an 11th (or even more) game to load up in an unstable fashion. However it'll not benefit from the full range of functionalities it should.
I'm not trying to "protect" SKY3DS or R5 here, I'm not a "fan" of their work, I'm just trying to keep the facts straight.
And running on assumptions that this glitch somehow proves something is not a "fact" that proves your point.

Infact, Foxi4's review saying that there are 10 non-rewritable slots is still correct.
There are 10 non-rewritable slots, the glitch just manages to cause a reading error that circumvents the loading mechanic and thereby allows a non-listed game to be loaded in an unstable fashion... Without allowing you to save your game and at the risk of breaking your hardware.
"User discretion advised." as they say.

truth is even if you claim its a technical limitation....answer this "how can it play the 11th game?"....if it was a technical reason it wouldnt play at all as it wouldnt be technically possible, the logged data obviously isn't NEEDED to play the games, so they just log it for what reason?........so if you want to say "aha! saves...its probably saves!!!"....not all games use saves, and games that are card2 would be using way more data than card1 so in that case it would be "10 card1 games and unlimited games that don't need to save....and i dont know where card2 games come into play would they be exempt from counting towards a save slot or do they use more?

basically no matter which way you try slice it, the story doesnt add up for there being a technical limitation.....and just because you cant get 11+ games to work without glitching it just proves they have pretty thorough checks in place...they over looked the glitch and even implied they will "fix" it in the next batch....so yeah why fix something that would allow those who want more games to use more unless it was in some way harming your business model, you would just warn that its unsafe and leave people to do whatever they like at their own risk

 

[Danjal]

Put it like this - if its NOT a technical limitation, then its possible to run 11 games *or* re-write the 10 game limit without the use of a glitch.
So, rather than saying - HAH this glitch proves everything! ITS A SCAM!
Which doesn't prove a damned thing other than the fact that there's some shoddy holes in this particular piece of hardware/software.

Seems to me that if the glitch does prove what you all claim it proves - it shouldn't be all too hard to convert it into a stable method to run more games or rewrite the 10-slot-limit.
Which hasn't happened yet.

So, while it is true that there are some very odd things going on. It is also true that as of yet nobody has gotten that 11th game to run in a stable fashion.

 

[gamesquest1]

that's like saying homebrew is impossible to run on the 3ds because of a technical limitation because you can only do it by abusing a bug........no, if there is security in place you can only work around it......just because you can find away past the protection doesn't just mean you can disable like magic.....but you can prove that there is no technical limitation there

 

[Danjal]

Is it protection though? Do you have conclusive proof that the 10-game-limit is one put in place through software restrictions, and not because the 10-slots are indeed not rewritable?

What it looks like to me - based on the information made available - is the following:

1. The card has a 10-slot-registry, with a 'filter' to prevent adding games that won't run on your system (since its not region-free this is a necessity to prevent people from locking in wrong-region games or altered roms that potentially wouldn't run on their device.)
   Speculation: Its also possible that these 10 slots are related to 10 available save slots on the SKY card itself.
2. This 10-slot-registry appears to be non-rewritable - and while those who checked out the hardware pointed out that there ARE chips similar to it that would be rewritable, they couldn't say/prove that this one would be rewritable aswell.
   (Thereby providing the first concrete piece that this card is limited by a technical limitation, one put in by choice of hardware/chips used.)
3. The glitch basicly disturbs the loading sequence, allowing a game to "slip by" security and bypass the 10-slot-registry whitelist.
   But, because you got in through non-registered means - the card doesn't actually know what to do with you and can't save your games.
   So while it can *load* games, that is it for now.

So, would it be possible for some clever person to create a "clone" of SKY3DS with improved hardware that CAN be rewritten or load more than 10 games?
I'd say so. Based on what people have said the hardware for it does exist.

However whether or not THIS card can load that 11th game without the use of an exploit and actually save the game remains to be seen/proven.
Which means you can't claim without the shadow of a doubt that there is no technical limitation at all.
You can only prove that there are some shoddy holes pointing at odd choices and confirming that not everything is entirely 'sound' when it comes to SKY3DS.

Speculation: And another option people have pointed out is that the non-rewritable part may be necessary for the whole "Fool the system into thinking its a real game." thing.
Removing that and making it rewritable could thus potentially mean that the system would be able to distinguish ROM from real game and make the card non-functional.

Either way, the glitch doesn't "prove" that there is no technical limitation. It just proves that there are holes and issues.
And I do believe that if there is a way to remove or circumvent the current limitations - then people with the skills and knowledge to do so will find a way to do it.
While SKY has no vested interest - there are plenty of people who aren't SKY that would probably do it just to show that they could.

 

[gamesquest1]

ok this is boring, why log the games in the first place?......they obviously don't need to be logged as using said glitch the game still works so its proven the logged info is completely unnessisary......so why? .....saves? as i already explained, some games dont save, other games are card 2, games are saved to the SD as you can back them up using their own tool......so nothing at all would make sense for logging them

anyways....if you want to be like "but without their source code you cant prove it"....sure go down that route.....but....you know if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck 99% of the time its a duck

 

[Yoman228]

Well, since GW have posted the working video with 9.2-20 and region unlocked, I will be very surprise if anyone will buy the sky3ds or R5 anymore.

I have bought a R5 which is still in shipping and would have bought 2 x sky3ds from day 1 if they have no 10 games limitation at launch.

Either sky3ds set the limitation due to greed or hardware limitation, they have 2 less sale from me because of the 10 game limitation.

And that the fact.

 

[tivanh]

I don't support their choice, I think its a horrible concept. Acknowledging facts is not the same as supporting something.

However my opinion does not change the reality.
People have been able to run "twenty games" in an unstable mode.
The card loads them up, but doesn't maintain save functionality and the method used is liable to break your SD card by corrupting it.

Seems to me that that isn't an ideal solution.
Just because you're of the opinion that its a horrible decision and that they are greedy (which I agree is completely correct).
Does not suddenly turn this glitch into a stable method to load more than the 10 games in a stable fashion.

In other words - is it possible to use the method applied by the SKY3DS card to create a card that doesn't have the 10 game limit?
Yes, by all accounts that would be possible... And I urge everyone NOT to buy SKY3DS or its competitors cards that have this 10-game-limit because its dispicable.
That however does not change the fact that the cards still have that limit.
This technical limit that was put there intentionally. Likely motivated through greed one way or another.

The argument at the moment is it's hardware related. Now this may be true but lets not get confused between the hardware limitation of the console and that of the flash cart.

I don't know the 3ds well enough to 100% say but i wlll say first that i feel they have emulated one of those a 3in1 game carts but specifically a 10in1 game cart, like a retro games carts available. They would have multiple saves signed on a single cart and be th only time it occurs. Than this is not a 3ds hardware issue, it was built into the parameters of the cart and a hardware issue on the cart side.. If this is a true 1:1 cart emulation than that is the only way around it. Only way around it is with privilege which sky does not have......Your devs know this......

 

[Danjal]

The argument at the moment is it's hardware related. Now this may be true but lets not get confused between the hardware limitation of the console and that of the flash cart.

I don't know the 3ds well enough to 100% say but i wlll say first that i feel they have emulated one of those a 3in1 game carts but specifically a 10in1 game cart, like a retro games carts available. They would have multiple saves signed on a single cart and be th only time it occurs. Than this is not a 3ds hardware issue, it was built into the parameters of the cart and a hardware issue on the cart side.. If this is a true 1:1 cart emulation than that is the only way around it. Only way around it is with privilege which sky does not have......Your devs know this......

My point - the current limitation for SKY3DS is related to the Flash Card, not the console.

Its a limitation put there on purpose (likely due to choice of chipsets) and as of yet unknown whether it can be removed at all.
There's a glitch, there's no solution or 'fix'.