Hacking Gateway 3DS - First 3DS flash card?!

[Foxi4]

Tell that to Microsoft... didn't prevent them for banning thousands of users.

Banning, yes. There is a huge difference between banning a user from using an Online service that has a Terms of Use agreement that you agree to and rendering a physical device inoperable.

Banned XBox'es are still XBox'es - they still play games, they're just banned from using XBox Live because their user was in breach of the XBox Live contract. XBox Live is not a part of the XBox package, it's an entirely separate service with its own rules that you have to follow in order to use it. When you go into a store and you buy a consoles, you buy "goods", not "services" - those two are mutually exclusive.

Similarily the government isn't going to torch your car if you break the law severely while driving. They can take away your capacity to drive, meaning your license, but they won't destroy your car - your car is a possesion of yours, it's something that you legally own.

No bricking of systems will take place because it's illegal and infringes upon your personal property - Nintendo would be in a world of trouble if they resorted to that.

 

[natkoden]

Still, you can clearly see that there's no such thing as "I bought it, I can do whatever I want with it".

If Nintendo wants to brick your system, they're free to do so.

 

[Foxi4]

Still, you can clearly see that there's no such thing as "I bought it, I can do whatever I want with it".

If Nintendo wants to brick your system, they're free to do so.

Uhm, no, they're not and I just outlined why. They can ban you from using Nintendo Network if the infrastructure allows them to do so, but your 3DS is going to remain a 3DS - it will still play games. You can do anything you want with your system and outside of voiding the warranty if any modification is entailed, nothing happens to the system per se. What can happen is that you can get banned from using a service which is not a part of the system.

If Nintendo rendered your system inoperable, aka "Bricked", you would be in full legal rights to sue them for destroying private property and you would win in any court, no matter the circumstances because nobody has the right to take the axe to something that you legally own.

 

[Lakerfanalways]

Nintendo threatening to brick consoles..YAWN, didnt they supposedly threaten to brick consoles with the Acecard and other devices, yeah that went no where..what they will probably do is have game updates mandatory on the game itself and that will kill the card..I dont go online with my 3DS XL so they can have firmware updates and I dont care, but once they put the update on the game itself that will cause a lot of problems

 

[nukeboy95]

Nintendo threatening to brick consoles..YAWN, didnt they supposedly threaten to brick consoles with the Acecard and other devices, yeah that went no where..what they will probably do is have game updates mandatory on the game itself and that will kill the card..I dont go online with my 3DS XL so they can have firmware updates and I dont care, but once they put the update on the game itself that will cause a lot of problems

fyi for everyone there is nothing Nintendo about bricking in this firmware
bricking might only be a problem in a new firmware

 

[Lakerfanalways]

fyi for everyone there is nothing Nintendo about bricking in this firmware
bricking might only be a problem in a new firmware

Just dont update..but that would be an issue if they put the update on the game itself then it would be a big problem..I can see Nintendo doing that, they know that not everyone goes online with their 3DS so they put a mandatory update on a new game and BAM card doesnt work anymore..if that happens I just wait for gateway to make an update and all will be well again

 

[Foxi4]

Just to clarify further on what I said, regardless of what you do on your console, nobody can just brick it, even remotely. The system is still going to play games - what actually happens is that the system becomes red flagged server-side and any connections from it are rejected because the owner broke the terms of the agreement he or she agreed to follow upon first connection, which is treated as signing the agreement. When you go to a store, you pick up a game and put it in your system, that game will work and if a system update will be necessary to launch it, it's likely on the cartridge itself anyways and you will be able to update.

I'm yet to hear a single story about a 3DS getting banned from using WFC/Nintendo Network, let alone getting bricked. There was one time when Wii's were getting bricked after a system update because the update was unable to overwrite custom firmware files and as such failed to install correctly and another time when a similar thing happened to XBox 360 drives, but that's that and it was very much the user's fault to update via official means when they've jammed a software equivalent of a soggy sandwich into their system. Neither Nintendo nor Microsoft, or in fact any other company will consider the effects of custom firmware on their installers - they're programmed to work perfectly fine on virgin systems and if it so happens that a modified one gets bricked in the process of updating, that's the user's fault because the installer was not programmed to work under such conditions.

 

[natkoden]

Uhm, no, they're not and I just outlined why. They can ban you from using Nintendo Network if the infrastructure allows them to do so, but your 3DS is going to remain a 3DS - it will still play games. You can do anything you want with your system and outside of voiding the warranty if any modification is entailed, nothing happens to the system per se. What can happen is that you can get banned from using a service which is not a part of the system.

If Nintendo rendered your system inoperable, aka "Bricked", you would be in full legal rights to sue them for destroying private property and you would win in any court, no matter the circumstances because nobody has the right to take the axe to something that you legally own.

Care to provide some proof for that?

Just because Microsoft banned users from they Xbox Live platform, it doesn't mean Nintendo will to the same. Nintendo can update their policy and specify that if you mod the hardware or pirate the console, they can do whatever they want.

Oh, and, read this:

http://geekparty.com/microsoft-adds-binding-arbitration-clause-and-class-action-waiver-to-tos-2/

 

[Foxi4]

Care to provide some proof for that?

Just because Microsoft banned users from they Xbox Live platform, it doesn't mean Nintendo will to the same. Nintendo can update their policy and specify that if you mod the hardware or pirate the console, they can do whatever they want.

Oh, and, read this:

http://geekparty.com/microsoft-adds-binding-arbitration-clause-and-class-action-waiver-to-tos-2/

This is common knowledge derrived from laws concerning private property. If you own something, you just own it. You have to distinguish between goods, which is something you buy and own and services which is something you participate in for a fee or for free like in the case of PSN. Terms of Use are not law, Nintendo can do whatever they feel like with them and they can ban you from their service if you break it, but they cannot infringe upon your private property, that being the system itself - I can't see how this is hard to understand. Your private property is protected by law, nobody can infringe upon it. Services you participate in are not private property because they're not a "good" - you have to follow their rules board to participate.

Allow me to quote here:

"Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law."

~Protocol I to the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms". Council of Europe. pp. Protocol 1 Article 1.

The above statement applies to Europe only, but other countries have equivalent law and it's pretty much universal. Unless your possession is in any way a danger to the state, nobody will strip you from it or in any way infringe upon it as said person or company would be in breach of international law and that's bad news.

This is why companies can ban you, but they can't knock on your door and take away your system which you bought, nor can they cripple its functionality - all they can do is prevent you from using services associated with it as they are not a tangible part of the system.

 

[natkoden]

This is common knowledge derrived from laws concerning private property. If you own something, you just own it. You have to distinguish between goods, which is something you buy and own and services which is something you participate in for a fee or for free like in case of PSN. Terms of Use are not law, Nintendo can do whatever they feel like with them and they can ban you from their service if you break it, but they cannot infringe upon your private property, that being the system itself - I can't see how this is hard to understand. Your private property is protected by law, nobody can infringe upon it. Services you participate in are not private property because they're not a "good" - you have to follow their rules board to participate.

Allow me to quote here:



The above statement applies to Europe only, but other countries have equivalent law and it's pretty much universal. Unless your possession is in any way a danger to the state, nobody will strip you from it or in any way infringe upon it as said person or company would be in breach of international law and that's bad news.

This is why companies can ban you, but they can't knock on your door and take away your system which you bought, nor can they cripple its functionality - all they can do is prevent you from using services associated with it as they are not a tangible part of the system.

Ok, but what they're banning is your console, not your user account. So yes, they're acting upon your private property and not a service.

 

[medoli900]

To put it more simply,you can be banned from GBAtemp by breaking the forum rule,but they can't destroy your computer.Not even with a virus.
They ban your 3DS "IP address" from their server,not the 3DS itself.

 

[natkoden]

To put it more simply,you can be banned from GBAtemp by breaking the forum rule,but they can't destroy your computer.Not even with a virus.

I didn't buy my PC from gbatemp

 

[Silverthorn]

Ok, but what they're banning is your console, not your user account. So yes, they're acting upon your private property and not a service.

They're banning your console from using a service which is not part of the console itself.
What Foxi said is right, what's so difficult about it.

 

[Foxi4]

Ok, but what they're banning is your console, not your user account. So yes, they're acting upon your private property and not a service.

That's not true, because your console is banned from the service, and most likely server-side. It just doesn't connect because a given Console ID is banned from connecting. There is nothing physically wrong with the system.

In fact, you can even unban an XBox 360 by swapping that Console ID and removing whatever junk the banning process left (I believe it leaves a Red Flag notification in the system files, but I'm not certain. 360 modders would know more about the subject) which will make the system fully Online-capable again. Naturally you still need a valid Console ID, but that just proves the point that the console itself is perfectly fine.

 

[medoli900]

I didn't buy my PC from gbatemp

I was only separating the goods and service,but since you are playing smart ass,i'll just assume you are trolling.

 

[natkoden]

I was only separating the goods and service,but since you are playing smart ass,i'll just assume you are a troll.

It was a joke.... jeez.

Internet serious business

I'm just gonna go and come back when you guys are not posting about this. You take it too seriously.

 

[Jayro]

I bought a 32GB microSD card two months ago at Walmart for $24, so buying 2GB~4GB sized cards on average per-game will be a lot cheaper than buying each game at $40 retail. I'm not a collector, so cases and manuals mean nothing to me.

 

[sephirothmk]

Guys, since the R4ids cards have updatable firmware, would it be possible for them to reverse engineer Gateway's firmware, so we can flash it? Or the circuitry is way different for that to happen?

 

[Foxi4]

I'm just gonna go and come back when you guys are not posting about this. You take it too seriously.

We're merely dispelling rumours because some people aren't adept in law, don't know those things and assume that the bricking rumours are actually true when they aren't. This causes panic, and panic is undersirable so we like to keep those things well-explained.

Guys, since the R4ids cards have updatable firmware, would it be possible for them to reverse engineer Gateway's firmware, so we can flash it? Or the circuitry is way different for that to happen?

Cartridge casing aside, a 3DS cartridge is nothing like a DS cartridge - R4's or any other contemporary flashcarts will never boot 3DS ROM's.

 

[sf1215]

If somebody already asked this, I did not read all the pages. So, will gateway also allow you to play regular ds games or not? Does anyone know?