Game Creation DSiWare: Petit Computer Coming to USA

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Foxi4

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There is no such thing as a DSi game, unless you mean a DS game with DSi features. In that case, there isn't too many of those games either.
http://en.wikipedia....tendo_DSi_games

Fine. SIX DSi games. NONE are critically acclaimed. That makes a TOTAL difference to my point: there are no DSi games that are being made because almost NOBODY made them.
Nobody made them because Nintendo expected the entire DS userbase to switch to DSi's, but that never happened. The DS userbase remained strong in numbers while the DSi sold 26,7 million units (according to Wikipedia).

Rather than admitting that the tactic failed, they chose to tally up the DS and DSi sales and call it a revision when truthfuly it was an attempt to take the DS to the next level. The handheld never reached the level of appreciation it deserved and simple marketing dictated that releasing DS games and promoting their development was more profitable than making DSi-Only ones.

The larger portion of their userbase had DS'es, not DSi's, thus first, second and third-party developers opted to make games that are going to sell better - games tailored for the more popular device, adding some DSi content rather than making the games elaborate and DSi-Only.

Of course there are DSiWare titles that we're forgetting about here, but there really isn't a whole lot of good games out there - it's mostly minigame galore.
 
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Deleted_171835

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Nobody made them because Nintendo expected the entire DS userbase to switch to DSi's, but that never happened. The DS userbase remained strong in numbers while the DSi sold 26,7 million units (according to Wikipedia).

Rather than admitting that the tactic failed, they chose to tally up the DS and DSi sales and call it a revision when truthfuly it was an attempt to take the DS to the next level. The handheld never reached the level of appreciation it deserved and simple marketing dictated that releasing DS games and promoting their development was more profitable than making DSi-Only ones.

The larger portion of their userbase had DS'es, not DSi's, thus first, second and third-party developers opted to make games that are going to sell better - games tailored for the more popular device, adding some DSi content rather than making the games elaborate and DSi-Only.

Of course there are DSiWare titles that we're forgetting about here, but there really isn't a whole lot of good games out there - it's mostly minigame galore.
The DSi's userbase is a part of the DS userbase. The DSi being a slightly more powerful system with a couple more features doesn't change that.

..It wasn't an entirely new console. It was never an entirely new console. It's just a DS revision. Nintendo has said that before its launch and their internal financial documents include the DSi with total DS sales.

And don't new consoles tend to be a generational leap specs-wise over their predecessor? The DSi was a minor bump in specs over older DS revisions.
 
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Foxi4

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The DSi's userbase is a part of the DS userbase. The DSi being a slightly more powerful system with a couple more features doesn't change that.

..It wasn't an entirely new console. It was never an entirely new console. It's just a DS revision. Nintendo has said that before its launch and their internal financial documents include the DSi with total DS sales.

And don't new consoles tend to be a generational leap over their predecessor? The DSi was a minor bump in specs over the DS.
Okay, I'm going to say that once more, I said it a million times already on these forums but what the heck. Twice the clock speed, four times the RAM, twin cameras, improved screens, SD slot, entirely new OS, WPA compatibility, DSi-Only titles, downloadable titles (DSiWare), built-in browser, built-in music player (.acm, but still), internal FLASH storage, separate dedicated devkit, DS-Mode compatibility layer, removed SLOT-2 (accessories support and GBA backwards compatibility)... Shall I carry on?

This is no revision. This is an entirely new piece hardware. Similarities in CPU arrangement (ARM9+ARM7) are not a design choice - they were enforced by the backwards compatibility mode which is hardware-based. From a hardware AND software stand-point, this is not a revision - it has dedicated binaries that work on it and on it only, hence it's not a retouched DS, not by a long shot.
 
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Deleted_171835

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The DSi's userbase is a part of the DS userbase. The DSi being a slightly more powerful system with a couple more features doesn't change that.

..It wasn't an entirely new console. It was never an entirely new console. It's just a DS revision. Nintendo has said that before its launch and their internal financial documents include the DSi with total DS sales.

And don't new consoles tend to be a generational leap over their predecessor? The DSi was a minor bump in specs over the DS.
Okay, I'm going to say that once more, I said it a million times already on these forums but what the heck. Twice the clock speed, four times the RAM, twin cameras, improved screens, SD slot, entirely new OS, WPA compatibility, DSi-Only titles, downloadable tiltes (DSiWare), built-in browser, built-in music player (.acm, but still), internal FLASH memory, separate dedicated devkit, DS-Mode compatibility layer, removed SLOT-2 (accessories support and GBA backwards compatibility)...

This is no revision. This is an entirely new hardware. Similarities in CPU arrangement (ARM9+ARM7) is not a design choice - it was enforced by the backwards compatibility mode which is hardware-based. From a hardware AND software stand-point, this is not a revision - it has dedicated binaries that work on it and on it only, hence it's not a retouched DS, not by a long shot.
Yes, I know you've said it a million times. That's why I don't understand why you keep repeating false info.

Twice the clock speed, four times the RAM might sound like a lot on paper but that small increase over the DS's already weak specs don't actually make much of a difference when it comes to games. That specs bump was only done to facilitate the cameras and SD-cards.

Increased screen-size means nothing unless the 3DS XL is an entirely new console to you. As for the extra applications, they also don't mean anything. The PSP-2000+ aren't new consoles because they feature Skype (unlike the 1000) and had 64MB of RAM.

It got a separate devkit for DSiWare games that would utilize the camera and SD-Card. Still means nothing.

The DSi is simply a DS with some extra features and a couple exclusive games that utilize those features. It was not marketed as a new console, not internally developed as an entirely new console nor was it presented as a new console. The change in hardware is simply to support the camera and bonus applications.
 

Foxi4

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Twice the clock speed, four times the RAM might sound like a lot on paper but that small increase over the DS's already weak specs don't actually make much of a difference when it comes to games.
It doesn't because nobody took the time and effort to make games that would utilize these extra resources. The existing DS userbase was huge as it was and the DSi Train didn't take off as it was expected to.

That specs bump was only done to facilitate the cameras and SD-cards.
No. MP3 Players with 20MHz ARM CPU's support SD cards, digital cameras have slow CPU's as well and they have, y'know, a camera module and a memory card slot.

Increased screen-size means nothing unless the 3DS XL is an entirely new console to you.
I was just listing differences, really.

As for the extra applications, they also don't mean anything. The PSP-2000+ aren't new consoles because they feature Skype (unlike the 1000) and had 64MB of RAM.
The RAM increase was justified - it was to facilitate faster loading times and Skype support. Skype is still a native PSP binary, the devkit is exactly the same. DSi applications, even if they were simple enough to be booted by the DS, would not boot. Because, you know, they're DSi binaries. RAM increase alone doesn't make a successor. The rest of the hardware is virtually the same, minus the useless IR port, plus the extended serial port in exchange to support microphones.

It got a separate devkit for DSiWare games that would utilize the camera and SD-Card.
It got a separate devkit because DSi titles use DSi Mode. If it were because of the SD slot or the camera, they would just send an update to the existing one.

The DSi is simply a DS with some extra features and a couple exclusive games that utilize those features.
Pretty much everything in the DSi is different compared to the DS.

It was not marketed as a new console, not internally developed as an entirely new console nor was it presented as a new console. The change in hardware is simply to support the camera and bonus applications.
How does it change the fact that it is an entirely separate console?

If you want to accept the DSi as a revision of the DS even though hardware-wise and software-wise it's different and it has exclusive binaries, then automatically you accept the Wii as a revision of the Gamecube, the Gameboy Colour as a revision of the Gameboy and so on and so forth.

I know it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but you're wrong. :P

Accept the fact that DS applications work on the DSi only because of a built-in compatibility layer.

EDIT: In any case, we're straying far, far, far from the main topic and it's be about time to return to it. I'll just write a quick summary of what I said in a lovably abstract way and then leave the subject entirely, as there's no point in forcing anyone to change their views.

To sum up my opinion as compared to the opinion of 95% of the population, the DSi is the equivalent of writing a book (Nintendo DS), selling it, then tearing each and every page from the original that made it the book it was (Removal of every single DS component there is), writing an entirely new book that has nothing to do with the previous one content-wise (Complete hardware revamp) and then marketing it as the revised version of the book (The silly DSi marketing campaign) because one of the characters quotes sentences from the original book (Compatibility Mode). Now, don't get me wrong - it's still in the DS family of products... but then again, so is the 3DS. Because of the most crucial part of the design - Dual Screens. That doesn't make it a revision though.
 
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Deleted_171835

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Nobody made use of the extra resources because 6MB isn't a huge difference over 4MB and the CPU increase is minor. It's simply too small an increase to make a noticeable difference in games.

As for your comparison with digital cameras, the DSi has to use that camera in games (WarioWare DSi). I guarantee you that if you tacked on a camera on the original DS with DSiWare games that used it, it would struggle. It's not even just the camera. The OS would not have been as smooth with the original DS's specs.

The RAM increase was justified - it was to facilitate faster loading times and Skype support. Skype is still a native PSP binary, the devkit is exactly the same. DSi applications, even if they were simple enough to be booted by the DS, would not boot. Because, you know, they're DSi binaries.
A separate devkit still doesn't prove anything. The new devkit was because of the extra features (and the boosted specs as a result of those features.

If you want to accept the DSi as a revision of the DS even though hardware-wise and software-wise it's different and it has exclusive binaries, then automatically you accept the Wii as a revision of the Gamecube, the Gameboy Colour as a revision of the Gameboy and so on and so forth.

I know it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but you're wrong. :P
I'm saying that while the DSi is different hardware-wise and has a new OS, it was still intended and developed to be part of the DS-line. It was not supposed to be a replacement or an entirely new system like you say. It was simply another version of the DS albeit a more significant one compared to the DS Lite.

If hardware differences dictated a successor than we might as well say that the PSP-2000+ is a new system compared to the original PSP. It's a revision no matter how you cut it.


Heck even Nintendo themselves say so,
Kuwahara: One thing that was difficult was developing the project while keeping in mind how to sell it. What I mean is, it wasn't a completely new piece of hardware, so we couldn't plan on there being several big titles to be simultaneously released with it.

Iwata: Because it's not an entirely new platform. It's the third console in the Nintendo DS line.

Iwata: In other words, you would have felt freer if you could have ignored the technological precedents and the existing market for the DS, but since you had to restrict yourself to the DS platform, figuring out how to be innovative within that framework was a big challenge.

From the very beginning, it was designed to be a DS model with exclusive games that took advantage of its new features and slightly boosted specs. It is not a successor.
 

Foxi4

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If hardware differences dictated a successor than we might as well say that the PSP-2000+ is a new system compared to the original PSP. It's a revision no matter how you cut it.
There's a huge difference between tweaking certain aspects of your design and scrapping the entire design in favour of something else, and the DSi does the latter. I don't particularily care what's Iwata's stance on this - it's an entirely new design that has nothing to do with the original DS apart from the same Slot-1 and the compatibility layer. Refer to my previous, now edited post and excuse me, but I'll jettison from this argument in favour of heading back on-topic. I'm not going to attempt changing your mind - you seem admant in your naivety. :P

EDIT: Just on the side note, the DSi actually has 16 megabytes of RAM while the DS has 4 - the difference is 12, not 6 megabytes as you claim. Effectively this means that the DSi is capable of loading four times the amount of content the DS is capable of loading in one sitting, but this extra RAM sleeps most of the time since the DSi was practically neglected by Nintendo. And just so that nobody accuses me of being bias and treating a difference in RAM size differently on the DSi and the PSP-200x, I'd like to point out that it's just one difference from the ones I listed previously. :P
 
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Deleted_171835

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If hardware differences dictated a successor than we might as well say that the PSP-2000+ is a new system compared to the original PSP. It's a revision no matter how you cut it.
There's a huge difference between tweaking certain aspects of your design and scrapping the entire design in favour of something else, and the DSi does the latter. I don't particularily care what's Iwata's stance on this - it's an entirely new design that has nothing to do with the original DS apart from the same Slot-1 and the compatibility layer. Reffer to my previous, now edited post and excuse me, but I'll jettison from this argument in favour of heading back on-topic. I'm not going to attempt changing your mind - you seem admant in your naivety. :P
...It isn't simply Iwata who says that. It's the entirety of the DSi hardware team. They would know what they intended the device to be and that's a DS revision.

Foxi4, it's you that seems intent on keeping this silly stance on it.
 

Ziggy Zigzagoon

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Fine. SIX DSi games. NONE are critically acclaimed. That makes a TOTAL difference to my point: there are no DSi games that are being made because almost NOBODY made them.
Actually, one was never released, but that is that. I just wanted to point out an error.

/huge fight about whether the DSi is a new console or not/
I would have to echo what Tabune is saying here:
1289397869.marshtomp_type.png

"You'd think by now I'd be better at Pokémon" by Marshtomp-san
 

DiscostewSM

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This is what I wish was compatible with it...
23gdv.jpg

It would definitely make it easier to work with. However, the bluetooth connection is built into the Pokemon Typing DS game card, and is only released in Japan.

As for what you can do with Petit Computer, here are some examples...
[yt]tmhlbBLDjeo[/yt]


[yt]-atBjgTQjcg[/yt]


[yt]KKrFsegkwUI[/yt]


[yt]HfYRCZGYqYU[/yt]
 

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