French court rules that Valve must allow for Steam users to resell their digital games

Discussion in 'GBAtemp & Scene News' started by Chary, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. Memoir

    Memoir Hi, I'm Cynical!

    Member
    20
    Jun 24, 2007
    United States
    In the Murderbox!
    Yes, because Valve introduced DRM to prevent people from selling their games as a working product. Makes perfect sense. I still don't understand your seething bias against Steam.
     
  2. Uiaad

    Uiaad GBATemp's resident guinea pig

    Member
    6
    Dec 23, 2008
    United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
    HAHA :rofl2:- It is merely the ecosystem of valve there have been attempts to stop people selling media for years before Steam, if you go back to the small print on some older VHS and Betamax tape there was small print on them saying that they couldn't resell them blah blah blah, do you think that this was taken any notice of ? No, the only reason it has been this far successful for steam is that there hasn't been the facility there to do it.
     
    Subtle Demise likes this.
  3. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip Reporter
    23
    Nov 21, 2005
    United Kingdom
    My immense dislike for Steam is them being a monopoly (though that is a measure of right place, right time), this stuff with the artificially hobbling the second hand market (which also means delisting is a thing we get to take note of), them acting as gatekeepers for things other than malware (they claim they are not any more but I have not seen anything push the boat out yet).
    The second hand thing though is what has always got my goat
     
    Subtle Demise likes this.
  4. Viri

    Viri GBAtemp Addict

    Member
    12
    Sep 13, 2009
    United States
    Hey guys, wanna trade some Steam games with me?
     
  5. Ev1l0rd

    Ev1l0rd (⌐◥▶◀◤) Developer - noirscape

    Member
    10
    Oct 26, 2015
    Netherlands
    Site 19
    I mean, bad example since you're an individual and we have extradition treaties through the EU with the USA and Switzerland iirc. The reason I didn't bring those up is because I'm not sure if they apply to fining businesses.
     
  6. crabycowman123

    crabycowman123 Member

    Newcomer
    2
    Nov 14, 2018
    United States
    Something I haven't seen people bring up in this thread: the ability to resell games/accounts means even games that have been taken of the store can still be legally obtained by people who never bought the game when it was in the store. For example, if this was applied to the Nintendo eShop, I could buy a third and fourth copy of Four Swords Anniversary Edition and play with four players instead of two.
    That said, I don't think companies should be forced to add new systems (i.e. a resale system) to allow users to sell their games, but rather they should be restricted from banning or otherwise harming consumers because of attempted resale of games (e.g. by selling one's account).
    I'm not sure about the specifics of the ruling, but my understanding is that they just can't prevent sales, not that they have to permit them via a store of some kind, which I think it fine.
     
  7. UltraSUPRA

    UltraSUPRA Born in '04, living in '96.

    Member
    3
    May 4, 2018
    United States
    If this goes through and spreads across the pond, I might end up giving up my ways of piracy.




    Who am I kidding. Physical copies of Earthbound and MegaMan X3 are ludicrously expensive, and repros are piss-easy to make.
     
  8. RedBlueGreen

    RedBlueGreen GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    8
    Aug 10, 2015
    Canada
    Have to disagree here. If you sell the game, the license will probably be revoked. Theres nothing wrong with being able to resell digital products if the license you hold is voided after. It will have no effect on piracy and it's not analogous to paid piracy, unless you're allowed to keep the license, which probably wouldn't happen. Even if the seller then downloads a cracked version it's still very different because them playing a cracked version has nothing to do with selling the game, other than it not being in their possession anymore.
     
  9. Voyambar

    Voyambar GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    2
    Jul 30, 2019
    Antarctica
    My Basement
    Better than EGS iirc
     
  10. OperationNT

    OperationNT GBAtemp Fan

    Member
    6
    May 1, 2016
    France
    I hope this French law will be finally applied: there is no reason that digital copies doesn't follow the same ruled as physical market; when you buy something, you should always truely own it...
    Unfortunatly, 3000 euros/day is nothing for Steam so they will probably pay the fee and the law will never be applied...
     
  11. huma_dawii

    huma_dawii GBAtemp Psycho!

    Member
    10
    Apr 3, 2014
    United States
    Planet Earth
    Same for physical media... is up to the USERS.
     
  12. MythicalData

    MythicalData GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    7
    May 11, 2017
    United States
    It's not the same though, you can give that to anybody around the world willy nilly, compared to a physical game where you need to physically make a transaction or send it in the mail.
    I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily. I just feel like if it goes through it won't be handled well by storefronts.
    Also you're essentially buying the license on their terms (tos, eula, and such)
     
    Last edited by MythicalData, Sep 22, 2019
  13. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip Reporter
    23
    Nov 21, 2005
    United Kingdom
    And the advent/rise to popularity of of ebay et al meant I was no longer restricted to adverts in the local paper, yard sales, car boot sales, church rummage sales, school, work, or selling it/trading it to the local game shop (who themselves maybe only had slightly bigger reach -- national redistribution or stock awareness took a while to spin up) for a pittance. Instead I can sit here stark bollock naked on a mobile phone and have the package company deliver me an addressed envelope, get me to chuck the game in and seal it before taking it away with them if I so desired.

    Similarly there are terms in agreements that are voided by courts if they are encountered in otherwise legal contracts -- you can't agree to be my slave if I fix your porch for instance, even if we get the agreement formally drawn up, notarised and filed with a good place to file contracts with. Most courts thus far anywhere people would likely care to live have agreed that you can't forgo resale rights (Foxi4 already referenced several cases here from various places), and even then the items in question might not be subject to recovery (there was a nice US supreme court case a while back for printer toner cartridges I think it was) and the people selling it would be the ones that they get to go after if they even can.
     
  14. pcwizard7

    pcwizard7 GBAtemp Fan

    Member
    4
    Aug 2, 2013
    Australia
    value and the other platforms don't want people to be able to resell their games because it would cause sales to drop. since atm people must buy their games new at full price.

    also, imagine if this went though for everywhere since with digital games condition isn't a factor what would this do for the price of games excluding new releases of course?
     
  15. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip Reporter
    23
    Nov 21, 2005
    United Kingdom
    Is condition much of a factor in time periods the game companies likely care about? I dare say I would put a decent chunk of change on the "loss" of games to the available sales pool is significantly less for condition related things than it is people just chucking them in a box in the attic or literally throwing them out (spurned lovers and bored mothers, even more so if they are theoretically rich*, chuck out just as much as they sell to me for next to nothing/far less than "normal" sources charge)

    *having seen what goes in university towns as well with stuff essentially being left then there is also that.

    That said I would like some kind of equation for what goes here. Condition a non factor, supply essentially worldwide and trivially so, delisting being the only thing to really lower potential supply and most times we only see that for licensed works (though this can rise to include the likes of car games**), not sure what form delivery would take or how hard transfer would be, the "I'm supporting the devs" factor in all this, possibly said devs reacting by making newer bundles (or bundles of old game + new one) more attractive in some manner***, possibly some devs messing with the market (sale because my dice came up 4 today, oh look the price is less than the second hand price), the usual split between maximum return and time waited for this (someone having to make rent/loan payment/whatever vs someone waiting for a nostalgic guy in a year or so), time also being a thing****, and back to the worldwide thing then ease of picking it up tomorrow (many games I like are somewhat rarer to come across in the real world so if I see a game I want in real life then there is a decision of whether it is there and then as I might not be able to come back, though at the same time the places I go to are usually cheaper than anywhere else by virtue of it not being gamers that are doing it).

    **wonder if we will see licensed gun models trouble something at some point.

    ***for most they would likely think so much DLC like we have seen in gold editions for decades on the PC, however you know it will include some borderline economy breaking amount of microtransaction in game currency.

    ****there is always something new to play and while games are ageing better than they once did, I can't play N64 games now for instance even if I can play the same game when it got remade for a later console, they are not as ageless as music, films, books and maybe TV (the TV golden age this last however many years, also indy films having what was once high end gear to do things that only studios could consider years before and studios not being able to compete on spectacle.
     
  16. SpaceFunction

    SpaceFunction Member

    Newcomer
    3
    Feb 18, 2017
    Brazil
    I'm sorry, but this thread is essentially yet another case of the peasants defending the feudal lord, lol. This is great news, I hope this law goes through (and maybe it could incite other countris to go in this direction as well)
     
  17. MasterZoilus

    MasterZoilus GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    4
    Sep 10, 2014
    United States
    Yepp you're 100% spot on! Streaming games WILL be how it will be. There's waaaaay to many benefits for Sony, MS, Nintendo, game studios...etc NOT to adopt the stadia model. Not only will it just pretty much ending piracy but ending the used games sales market which companies can't make a dime off of and since the 1970's have lost TRILLIONS in potential profits when ALL is added up.... yeah this is gonna be a short lived subject. But I doubt 5yrs. I'm guessing 10-15yrs.
     
  18. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip Reporter
    23
    Nov 21, 2005
    United Kingdom
    Is that like the trillions I "lost" by not playing the lottery and not working 100 hour weeks in a finance firm? Or perhaps that nobody gave me for no real reason other than I am a sort of likeable person.

    If we can imagine money/profit as we dance through the land of faeries then why am I not god king of mankind as I am that rich?

    Long before software left the hardware* it was on we had rulings that intellectual property rights did not trump resale rights, every ruling since up to this very day has affirmed the right to resell on a wide variety of things and nobody seems to be able to make a case why software in this instance should be an exception.

    *I would say long before we had software but Babbage and Ada Lovelace arguably did something there, and at the more philosophical level there is a lot of maths that broaches the area even if it is run on wetware.
     
    Ryccardo likes this.
  19. Captain_N

    Captain_N GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    8
    Mar 29, 2010
    United States
    This guy knows whats up. the goal is to have the consumer own nothing. They they can keep selling the same thing over and over. The smart ones will pirate the shit and store it on their own streaming servers lol.
     
  20. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip Reporter
    23
    Nov 21, 2005
    United Kingdom
    That would likely take some serious skills, serious effort in recreation, or breaking into a server to grab a copy there and hoping your local PC is powerful enough for it.

    Though if you want real fun
     
Loading...