External Harddrives that Don't Require a Y-Cable

[zebragreen]

Powered hub? hmmm..... something nefarious happened but just so you understand... in a y cable only one of the leafs has a data connection. the other one is purely for pulling power from another port. So that data connection from the wii to the hub would not be needed.. if the connection didn't work you would just need to swap the two sides of the Y adapter. USB is an end to end negotiated connection and 3 devices talking on one cable is not a supported function. (HDMI is the same, any HDMI splitter requires a chip to receive the hdmi signal and then output the signal to two female cables).

As for why your drive may have died... the 5 volts should remain 5 volts because it is hooked in series and not parallel, so either the drive was bad to begin with or the usb hub was bad and was outputting outside a safe voltage range?

Neither are correct, I wrote about what happened here: https://gbatemp.net/threads/usb-y-cable-usb-hub-usb-peripherals.636729/

The drive I used was a drive that has worked flawlessly (with a Y-Cable in both ports) for a year.

After attempting the setup pictured, it worked exactly the same, full speed, identical to my eye, for about 2 hours. Then the Wii suddenly crashed dumped.

When I looked at the drive it was perfectly wiped (even the title label was gone) and blank. However my drive still showed almost full capacity, so I thought to do a scan for errors, and when I did, the complete totality of my drive's contents were placed into Found.000 as file fragments.

After a full (not quick) format, with zero fragmentation, it works in the Wii but it's at quarter the speed it used to run at.

I only wrote USB Data for the hub in the picture to specify that it was with the Hub's data cable, not a powered one. It was never powered when this happened and although I don't have a cable the Hub does have an optional powered input that's never been used.

 

[k0walski]

I would not cement that power rating. Usb 2.0 devices have long taken advantage of and even demanded (firestick, raspberry pi, other small computing devices) higher than .5 amps even though it was never part of the spec.

Just to be sure, please see USB 2.0 IF spec - https://www.usb.org/document-library/usb-20-specification (usb_20.pdf in the archive) . To be specific, Section 7.2 (Power Distribution), Subsection 7.3.2 Bus Timing/Electrical Characteristics. So it has limitations, of course. However it's anyway limited by 0.5A if the device doesn't tell the port it would like to charge itself (then the device shortens D+/D- lines and the port may feed with up to 1.5A for USB2.0 device). Anyway, we're going to deep into the woods.
What I'd like to say - I'd either use Y-cable if it is expected to be used, or would use an enclosure with external PSU, or SD card with the card-reader. Lost data a few times, so I don't like playing these games anymore .

Are you currently running it in your Wii? Any chance you can plug it in a PC and right click it and do a Scan for Drive Errors?

If it doesn't say "Windows has finished scanning the drive, no errors were found", it's likely corrupting some small files over time and putting a few MB into the Found.000 folder on the root of the drive, which is what the Wii does to USB sticks.


@k0walski, are you saying this drive is good?

I think yes. But if I had a chance, I would definitely buy an enclosure with external PSU. I've had a self-powered enclosure and power-greedy HDD in it. On "heavy" I/O with large files the enclosure was disconnecting itself from the PC from time to time.

 

[AkikoKumagara]

Are you currently running it in your Wii? Any chance you can plug it in a PC and right click it and do a Scan for Drive Errors?

If it doesn't say "Windows has finished scanning the drive, no errors were found", it's likely corrupting some small files over time and putting a few MB into the Found.000 folder on the root of the drive, which is what the Wii does to USB sticks.

It's been in use on my Wii for years without issue.

Edit: I'll play along and run the scan, but I'd doubt if there's an issue now related to anything other than age and power on hours.

BTW, P/N: WDBZFP0010BBK-05

Post automatically merged: Jul 29, 2023

For USB2.0 it will work, of course, in compatibility mode, since, as far as I understood from the datasheet, it's USB3.x compliant. So the data transfer rate will be just slow. Something makes me think that finding a perfect match is a lottery (and I'm talking about the external HDD, of course ).

Well, the Wii only uses USB 2.0, right? Why does it matter?

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Forgot about noting this, but the very same drive DOES require a Y-cable on Wii U, if that information matters at all.

Post automatically merged: Jul 29, 2023

Either way you will need a Y cable. The Wii's USB points barely put off any power to the drive. 2 sources of power are required. If you wanted you could plug one into the Wii and the other into a power brick.

Not in my experience (though hold true for Wii U, for whatever reason).

 

[k0walski]

Well, the Wii only uses USB 2.0, right? Why does it matter?

-------------------------------------------

Forgot about noting this, but the very same drive DOES require a Y-cable on Wii U, if that information matters at all.

as I say, it only matters if the drive in enclosure consumes more than USB port can output.
That's why if an enclosure has a Y-cable - one should better use it (the Y-cable) prior not to lose it (the data). A conclusion based on the original question:

Which are the External Harddrives that work (reliably and without corruption over time like a USB stick) with just the power from a single HDD cable?

 

[AkikoKumagara]

as I say, it only matters if the drive in enclosure consumes more than USB port can output.
That's why if an enclosure has a Y-cable - one should better use it (the Y-cable) prior not to lose it (the data). A conclusion based on the original question:

Well yes, if said enclosure (or the drive within it, rather) requires the extra juice, that's a no-brainer. The one I'm suggesting here doesn't even come with one out of the box. They're available online, though.
I, too, am simply posing an answer to the question, and there are a number of drives that do work on the Wii through a single port.

 

[zebragreen]

It's been in use on my Wii for years without issue.

Edit: I'll play along and run the scan, but I'd doubt if there's an issue now related to anything other than age and power on hours.

BTW, P/N: WDBZFP0010BBK-05

View attachment 385750
View attachment 385751

Post automatically merged: Jul 29, 2023

Well, the Wii only uses USB 2.0, right? Why does it matter?

-------------------------------------------

Forgot about noting this, but the very same drive DOES require a Y-cable on Wii U, if that information matters at all.

Post automatically merged: Jul 29, 2023

Not in my experience (though hold true for Wii U, for whatever reason).

Thanks a whole bunch!

I wonder if there's any truth to this:

Perhaps I just got unlucky in getting a 2TB Elements SE instead of a 1TB Elements SE. Or it could be the modern changes from your older model.

Since @k0walski mentions it's the 2.0 compatibility mode of these Western Digital drives which allows a drive with a power consumption of less than 500ma? Is this right?

 

[k0walski]

@zebragreen,
I would definitely gave a try to this WD drive. Based on what they say (see https://www.westerndigital.com/prod...wd-elements-se-usb-3-0-hdd#WDBEPK5000ABK-WESN):
- WD Elements™ SE portable storage offers high-capacity to go, fast data transfer rates and universal connectivity with USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 devices.
It should work.

 

[zebragreen]

@zebragreen,
I would definitely gave a try to this WD drive. Based on what they say (see https://www.westerndigital.com/prod...wd-elements-se-usb-3-0-hdd#WDBEPK5000ABK-WESN):
- WD Elements™ SE portable storage offers high-capacity to go, fast data transfer rates and universal connectivity with USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 devices.
It should work.

I need at least 1TB space, how is the power consumption of the 1TB drive?

 

[k0walski]

I need at least 1TB space, how is the power consumption of the 1TB drive?

To be honest, WD says (https://support-en.wd.com/app/answers/detailweb/a_id/16704) it should work. However, based on the article above, if using the drive with USB2.0 interface they recommend using USB 2.0 Power Booster Cable.

Post automatically merged: Jul 30, 2023

UPD: or, in other words, Y-cable.

 

[zebragreen]

To be honest, WD says (https://support-en.wd.com/app/answers/detailweb/a_id/16704) it should work. However, based on the article above, if using the drive with USB2.0 interface they recommend using USB 2.0 Power Booster Cable.

Post automatically merged: Jul 30, 2023

UPD: or, in other words, Y-cable.

Thanks a bunch for finding this reference:

"May be" needed, it doesn't reference any damages, drive errors or corruption using a 500ma port (ie. The Wii).

On the other hand, it references a specific number: 650ma. Is it true that @AkikoKumagara has been running their hard drive underpowered? Or more importantly, if there's been no issues caused by running it underpowered for years, then this drive can still function correctly.

Do you think the 650ma numeber is "for safety", in the same way all external hard drive manuals state to never plug a HDD into a USB Hub?

You often reference the best case, to use a Y-Cable, for added safety, but the point of this post and my aim is to use a Tony Hawk Skateboard Dongle in the Wii, I can't do that with both ports used.

If you want to know what external power supplies I've tried I drew the diagrams here: https://gbatemp.net/threads/usb-y-cable-usb-hub-usb-peripherals.636729/

I'm trying to simplify it, in this post, by enquiring about External Harddrives that specifically work with only one USB port.

 

[morning_glory]

Seagate HDD brand was already suggested.
For what it's worth ... Have a closer look at your Wii USB ports & HDD USB leads/plugs. They do lose their virginity after a few uses. Jiggle lightly when inserted & take note if/when they performing.

 

[k0walski]

Thanks a bunch for finding this reference:

"May be" needed, it doesn't reference any damages, drive errors or corruption using a 500ma port (ie. The Wii).

On the other hand, it references a specific number: 650ma. Is it true that @AkikoKumagara has been running their hard drive underpowered? Or more importantly, if there's been no issues caused by running it underpowered for years, then this drive can still function correctly.

Do you think the 650ma numeber is "for safety", in the same way all external hard drive manuals state to never plug a HDD into a USB Hub?

You often reference the best case, to use a Y-Cable, for added safety, but the point of this post and my aim is to use a Tony Hawk Skateboard Dongle in the Wii, I can't do that with both ports used.

If you want to know what external power supplies I've tried I drew the diagrams here: https://gbatemp.net/threads/usb-y-cable-usb-hub-usb-peripherals.636729/

I'm trying to simplify it, in this post, by enquiring about External Harddrives that specifically work with only one USB port.

Yeah. Back to the topic. If Wii allows to use a USB hub (does it?), you could attach a usb hub with external power supply (e.g., https://amzn.eu/d/6zlon5y, but make sure it's a USB-A version). Because, by-default, self powered (or bus powered) hubs (if not specified by respective specs), will deliver 100mA per port (simply because they drain the power from the host and distribute 0.5 A between connected devices). I think it should solve the problem without the need of buying another external HDD. Also hubs are handy

TL;DR
The problem of vendors I once faced is that not all follow the standard (the case was with USB OTG so it's not a good example). Maybe they treat it more like a recommendation than obligation. I see two problems here based on which I can't say for sure there will be no problems with the disk:
- Wii is USB2.0
- The drive we're talking about is USB3.x by-default (by design).

The drive. It's original expectation - to operate through USB3.x connection which delivers enough power.

Wii & USB2.0. Every USB version is backwards compatible with its predecessor. I.e., a bus-powered device (which doesn't require additional power), e.g., USB3.0 flash drive (a stick), will work over USB2.0 just because it's compliant, however it won't deliver high data rate as designed. External hard drives are a bit tricky. Even my Samsung 2TB T7 SSD spceifies (it's engraved on the drive itself) that it requires 5V 1.5A (!). Unfortunately I didn't try it with native USB2.0 hosts (PS4 is not the case, because it can power such kind of devices).

 

[zebragreen]

Yeah. Back to the topic. If Wii allows to use a USB hub (does it?)

Yes I've heard specific mention of users using multiple Wii accessories (Wii Speak, Microphone, keyboard) all in a HUB.

self powered (or bus powered) hubs (if not specified by respective specs), will deliver 100mA per port (simply because they drain the power from the host and distribute 0.5 A between connected devices).

Handy to know, thanks for the insight, that's likely why this underpowered my hard drive enough to damage it:

As you explained, a slight power outage, can cause it to stop over the drive before it has moved safely to the side. Do you think that is what's happened based on the behaviour described? Should I get rid of this HDD?

I think it should solve the problem without the need of buying another external HDD.

Since my external hard drive already doesn't run anymore with a Y-Cable in both Wii ports, even though it did before, don't I need to buy a new external HDD either way?

Also hubs are handy

Yes here is a picture of mine:

Again, I can't depend on a second socket. I could power the drive with this:

And do this:

But as you've just informed me, USB Hubs distribute evenly between ports so, (500ma + 500ma) ÷ 4 = 250ma of power in the HDD Y-Cable power end, and it's getting another 250ma from the Y-Cable data end, meaning 500ma total so no advantage over a single USB cable in one port. But I doubt that strange set up would have been possible anyway.

 

[k0walski]

@zebragreen,
I wouldn't consider powering the hub from the second USB port. My point is - power the hub from a separate (not USB) power supply. Then, connect the hub to the Wii's first USB port. Based on the documentation of your hub, it appears that it has a separate power cable (which is, for some reason, expected to be connected to another USB port ). As far as I understand, the power cable is a bit short.... So, consider, at least, buying something like:

https://www.digikey.com.au/en/produ...BWiy21D8HAAbIG6Yi46-ixEAO64vAAE2ACuLCyYAJ6hQA

I.e.:
PSU, 5V 20W (4A). The only thing - the output plug should match the one you're using. I.e., internal diameter (probably around 2.5mm), external 3.5mm, positive - center (based on https://manuals.plus/m/63128fb27a8fdd18e5f65db32b6226924e7e9f95dff82822bc2c024dba7b3859_optim.pdf, if I'm not mistaken). Those PSUs mentioned above are likely 2.1mm, so you'll likely need a barrel addapter (from 2.1mm to 2.5mm), like this:

https://www.digikey.com.au/en/products/detail/mean-well-usa-inc/DC-PLUG-P1J-P1L/12142219

Concerning your HDD... S.M.A.R.T. will tell more. In general, for Wii there is no sence in buying too expencieve HDD since anyway you'll have 480mbits (60mbyte/sec) of I/O speed maximum (maximum possible speed delivered by USB2.0 under certain conditions) so drives like we've discussed before should work. Just consider powering the drive properly .

 

[zebragreen]

@zebragreen,
My point is - power the hub from a separate (not USB) power supply.

As mentioned a few times, I can't depend on a second socket.

it appears that it has a separate power cable (which is, for some reason, expected to be connected to another USB port ).

My hub didn't come with a cable

Concerning your HDD... S.M.A.R.T. will tell more.

Thanks for the info, I'll try that thanks.

In general, for Wii there is no sence in buying too expencieve HDD since anyway you'll have 480mbits (60mbyte/sec) of I/O speed maximum (maximum possible speed delivered by USB2.0 under certain conditions) so drives like we've discussed before should work. Just consider powering the drive properly .

Well the hard drives can work, sure, but it doesn't really matter since what we're looking for is a hard drive that can function without fault at 500ma power consumption.

 

[k0walski]

Well the hard drives can work, sure, but it doesn't really matter since what we're looking for is a hard drive that can function without fault at 500ma power consumption.

Well, then you'd try something, like...
- SD card (https://amzn.asia/d/iSQTJVl) or something similar with high read/write rates.
- Card reader (https://amzn.asia/d/ca9evks).

As mentioned a few times, I can't depend on a second socket.

Yes, that's why I was telling, in order not to use your second USB port, the power supply should be totally separate (like wall adapter or something, which is not connected to Wii). Or I'm missing something? If so, I'm sorry for misunderstanding...

Post automatically merged: Jul 30, 2023

UPD: this is what I was talking about:

Post automatically merged: Jul 30, 2023

UPD2: btw, this way you could connect your second drive to the hub... leaving one USB port empty...

 

[morning_glory]

UPD2: btw, this way you could connect your second drive to the hub... leaving one USB port empty...

Wait for it ....

 

[AkikoKumagara]

Have you already looked at the USB Devices Compatibility List? I looked at this years ago prior to purchasing my drive, to confirm function was what I required. That'd be a good starting point.

 

[zebragreen]

Well, then you'd try something, like...
- SD card (https://amzn.asia/d/iSQTJVl) or something similar with high read/write rates.
- Card reader (https://amzn.asia/d/ca9evks).

Well, as mentioned, a few times, my Wii files require 1TB in space.

I would consider this as a solution, but I think the SD Card support may not be good for Wii, in the same way USB sticks corrupt over time.

Yes, that's why I was telling, in order not to use your second USB port, the power supply should be totally separate (like wall adapter or something, which is not connected to Wii).

Well, as mentioned, a fourth time, I can't depend on a second socket.

My Wii is very tricky to access, and I depend on powering it on using the Wiimote's wireless power button. Unless there is a way to ensure the second socket only draws power at the moment the Wii is powered on, and turns off, I can't depend on a second socket.

UPD2: btw, this way you could connect your second drive to the hub... leaving one USB port empty...

I only have one drive, which, I think, is broken.

 

[k0walski]

@zebragreen,
Sorry, I was actually speaking about USB socket, not wall socket. I understand now Sorry for misunderstanding.
Is there any chance of having something like this (https://amzn.asia/d/a64bTQA) to resolve the socket problem? Depending of the setup of course. If you don't have spare space where to put all this stuff... it'll be a problem, I guess.