Covid-19 vaccine

[Deleted User]

You've got it completely twisted

I would assume you have an open mindset, so why would you think the Body of Thought between the two can be so clearly separated.

You're making some mistakes.

I'm going by your Comment, not by the actual numbers.
I've posted the actual numbers for AstraZeneca and they're at 1:100,000 which I assumed you've read.

If you haven't, maybe you should.
Your 1:1,000,000 seems a little luxurious in that context which is why I assumed you were making a hypothetical statement.

 

[Lacius]

I would assume you have an open mindset, so why would you think the Body of Thought between the two can be so clearly separated.



I'm going by your Comment, not by the actual numbers.
I've posted the actual numbers for AstraZeneca and they're at 1:100,000 which I assumed you've read.

If you haven't, maybe you should.
Your 1:1,000,000 seems a little luxurious in that context which is why I assumed you were making a hypothetical statement.

You're not paying attention. The mistake you made was conflating "blood clot" with "automatic death."

 

[Xzi]

I would assume you have an open mindset, so why would you think the Body of Thought between the two can be so clearly separated.

I don't know what to tell you, the dividing lines here are very clear. If the anti-vaxx crowd wants to prove that vaccines are unsafe and/or damaging in some way, there's a scientific means for doing that. But there's also a very good reason they'll probably never pursue that route: their beliefs are based entirely on ego, and proving themselves wrong would shatter that. Same principle behind people who believe in the flat Earth theory.

 

[Deleted User]

You're not paying attention.

You're not paying attention.
I'm pointing out that glossing over facts as if they're inconsequential is the problem.

You seem to try arguing details instead of understanding what the point is.
Unfortunately, this won't get anywhere to the issue as those are moving goalposts.

Adults don't need to be patronised by the Government.

 

[omgcat]

The only thing that tickles my brain is that people will trust sinovac even though it's made by Chinese scientists. I thought we weren't trusting them because the CCP lies. Why wouldn't the CCP lie about sinovac's efficacy? Are we trusting china now or not?

 

[Deleted User]

I don't know what to tell you

I don't know what to tell you either.
I'm not part of the Anti Vaccination Crowd.

I'm part of the Don't Patronise Me with Empty Words Crowd.
Yet here we are, with you thinking I'm against Science, however ridiculous that is.

But it is funny, so I am enjoying the exchange.

 

[Xzi]

I don't know what to tell you either.
I'm not part of the Anti Vaccination Crowd.

I'm part of the Don't Patronise Me with Empty Words Crowd.
Yet here we are, with you thinking I'm against Science, however ridiculous that is.

I don't believe I ever referred to you personally as an anti-vaxxer during this discussion, I referred to them as their own group.

 

[Lacius]

You're not paying attention.
I'm pointing out that glossing over facts as if they're inconsequential is the problem.

You seem to try arguing details instead of understanding what the point is.
Unfortunately, this won't get anywhere to the issue as those are moving goalposts.

Adults don't need to be patronised by the Government.

I haven't glossed over anything as if it's inconsequential. I'm acknowledging the odds of vaccine complications relative to the odds of COVID-19 complications. It is a mistake to say the 1 in a million chance for blood clots with the J&J vaccine makes the vaccine unsafe. By any objective metric I can think of, the J&J vaccine is still extremely safe, and it's much safer than things out there that are common place and also safe (oral contraceptives, etc.). The vaccines are FAR safer than risking contracting COVID-19.

The data from before the vaccines were made available to the public was that the vaccines were safe and effective. Today, after hundreds of millions of doses, that continues to be the true. The newly discovered blood clot risk in one vaccine doesn't change that, and the risk of a 1 in a million side-effect was acknowledged long ago.

I'm not part of the Anti Vaccination Crowd.

If you're arguing anything other than the COVID-19 vaccines being safe and effective, and if you are doing anything other than advocating for their widespread use, then yes, you are part of the anti-vaccination crowd. I am sorry if that is inconvenient for you.

with you thinking I'm against Science

You've specifically lambasted science and scientific studies. You are against science.

I don't believe I ever referred to you personally as an anti-vaxxer during this discussion, I referred to them as their own group.

I will. He's an anti-vaxxer.

 

[Deleted User]

If you're arguing anything other than the COVID-19 vaccines being safe and effective, and if you are doing anything other than advocating for their widespread use, then yes, you are part of the anti-vaccination crowd. I am sorry if that is inconvenient for you.

I would actually pay to see you work for Family Planning; there would never be a dull day.

That said, there isn't much more I can say to clarify without repeating myself.

 

[Xzi]

I will. He's an anti-vaxxer.

IIRC he said he's gotten a vaccine or plans to get one, and I'm willing to take his word on that. He does appear to have a number of anti-vaxxer talking points stuck in his head though, so I assume he spends a fair amount of time hanging out with that crowd either IRL or online.

 

[Lacius]

I would actually pay to see you work for Family Planning

If you, or someone else, could explain what this means, that would be appreciated.

 

[Deleted User]

If you, or someone else, could explain what this means, that would be appreciated.

Contraceptions, as needed as they are, aren't fully safe and effective.
It would be fun to watch you use your argument with them, though I doubt it's as fun for them.

 

[Lacius]

Contraceptions, as needed as they are, aren't fully safe and effective.
It would be fun to watch you use your argument with them, though I doubt it's as fun for them.

Contraceptives are generally safe and effective. The fact that they are not fully safe and are not fully effective is something we should acknowledge, but it doesn't change the aforementioned fact.

Risks can also be mitigated, and efficacy can be increased.

 

[Deleted User]

Contraceptives are generally safe and effective. The fact that they are not fully safe and are not fully effective is something we should acknowledge, but it doesn't change the aforementioned fact.

Risks can also be mitigated, and efficacy can be increased.

Exactly.
Now how to make that mental leap to COVID-19 is up to you, as none of my points disagreed with your statement.

 

[Xzi]

Risks can also be mitigated, and efficacy can be increased.

Yeah if she's real ugly, you gotta double-wrap your junk.

Let's pretend that was a metaphor for getting the two-shot vaccine, and not just me being extremely immature.

 

[Lacius]

Exactly.
Now how to make that mental leap to COVID-19 is up to you, as none of my points disagreed with your statement.

COVID-19 vaccines are generally safe and effective. The fact that they are not fully safe and are not fully effective is something we should acknowledge, but it doesn't change the aforementioned fact.

Risks can also be mitigated, and efficacy can be increased.

Yes, it works if we replace "contraceptives" with "COVID-19 vaccines."

 

[Taleweaver]

Just heard on the news that about half of Belgian adults are now (halfway, I presume) vaccinated. This is Belgium, so it's taken with a pinch of salt (1),but we're getting there.

Girlfriend as her second shot last Friday. And most of people I know of the older generation had at least their first shot.
On zoom we had a bit of a pickle between colleagues because one got his invitation but he wasn't planning on going.
I haven't gotten my invitation yet, but could get it any week or even any day now.

(1): it's not straight upcorruption but... Positively biased bureaucracy is probably the best description. A good example is how there are a few cities /villages in Flanders with a 65+ age vaccination rate of e.g. 104%.
This number is possible because instances compare the registered residents (meaning : everyone with a 'rijksregisternummer'... Basically the number on your passport) with the given vaccinations. As such, foreigners and sans-papiers who get a shot are counted in the latter but not the former.

 

[Lacius]

Free beer, other new incentives for Biden’s ‘vaccine sprint’

"Biden’s plan will continue to use public and private-sector partnerships, mirroring the 'whole of government' effort he deployed to make vaccines more widely available after he took office. The president said he was 'pulling out all the stops' to drive up the vaccination rate.

Among those efforts is a promotional giveaway announced Wednesday by Anheuser-Busch, saying it will 'buy Americans 21+ a round of beer' once Biden’s 70% goal is met."

https://apnews.com/article/coronavi...itics-health-8168ae1c68ca955b620082d862c911ad

 

[tabzer]

this buds for you.

Not that anybody deserves such a thing.

 

[Deleted User]

I've Commented enough here to warrant a follow-up report.

Just finished getting my first AstraZeneca shot two hours ago, next one will be late August.
As much as I question the AstraZeneca Vaccine, Obligations for the Greater Good outweigh Rights any day, for someone raised like myself, at least.

That said, there are quite a few differences in the Vaccination procedure between Sinovac and Astrazeneca.

In the latter that I underwent, they will take each group and give them a number of questions of past Medical History to verify qualification for the Vaccine. Afterwards, they will go in length about all the side-effects, of which there are 6 printed out and in the Explanation Template, the worst being Blood Clots.

The basic explanation for AstraZeneca is to treat this as one would the usual Child Vaccine, i.e. ingest Paracetamol once at home. I think that is the best explanation and analogy I've heard and I wished the Western Mainstream Media would address things in such a simple but direct way.

For all the other Mild Symptoms, they suggest drinking normal painkillers or antacid.
For all Heavy Symptoms, immediately go to the nearest Clinic or Hospital.

Additionally, I had to sign a Consent Form for AstraZeneca, which wasn't there for Sinovac.

The process itself was pretty harmless and, two hours or so in, I've taken my Paracetamol and am not feeling any of the symptoms just yet.
They told us to avoid strenuous activity for the next day, and so I will.