Covid-19 vaccine

[Xzi]

That said, injecting oneself with mRNA isn't the only way to alter a Human's Biology.

Messenger RNA does not interact with the human genome in any way. The message it sends to your cells causes your body to build its own spike protein right near the site of injection, which is why some pain in the area is common after the second dose.

Additionally, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine does not use mRNA at all, it's a much more traditional type of vaccine that uses dead/dormant cold cells as a delivery mechanism. So having an irrational fear of mRNA isn't even a good excuse for being anti-vaxx, you have other options.

 

[Deleted User]

So having an irrational fear of mRNA isn't even a good excuse for being anti-vaxx, you have other options.

This I agree and am planning to take my Sinovac next month.
The AstraZeneca schedule is in a few days but, as I mentioned, not a gambling man.

Messenger RNA does not interact with the human genome in any way.

This is where we'll have to agree to disagree.
The logic is simple; the Science isn't all there yet and we're the ones creating the first actual Human test cases.

In any other field that isn't rushed by a Government Emergency Mandate, every respectable Scientist would advise to wait until more evidence is available. That isn't the case here and whilst I can understand the rationale, I can't the argument that it's just as Scientifically sound as under normal circumstances.

 

[Xzi]

In any other field that isn't rushed by a Government Emergency Mandate, every respectable Scientist would advise to wait until more evidence is available.

This is a common misconception, the EUA does nothing to speed up or rush clinical trials. All it does is remove bureaucratic red tape. Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J will all be applying for full approval with basically just the data they've already gathered, and I'd be very surprised if any of them are rejected.

 

[Lacius]

This I agree and am planning to take my Sinovac next month.
The AstraZeneca schedule is in a few days but, as I mentioned, not a gambling man.



This is where we'll have to agree to disagree.
The logic is simple; the Science isn't all there yet and we're the ones creating the first actual Human test cases.

In any other field that isn't rushed by a Government Emergency Mandate, every respectable Scientist would advise to wait until more evidence is available. That isn't the case here and whilst I can understand the rationale, I can't the argument that it's just as Scientifically sound as under normal circumstances.

The science is absolutely in on the nature of mRNA vaccines and how they don't interact with anything in the nucleus. We've had mRNA vaccines in some form for decades.

The COVID-19 vaccines have been thoroughly tested. They are safe, they are effective, and they do not alter one's DNA. You are more likely to have your DNA altered if you aren't vaccinated.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html

 

[Deleted User]

I'd be very surprised if any of them are rejected.

I'd be repeating myself if I continue, but you should understand that Politics plays a greater role in the optics than you give it credit for. My quote of your Comment is to underline the question why that is.

I believe in Track Records for everything unless I take a Leap of Faith.
Science shouldn't require said Leap, but when it does then it should be put in its Disclaimer fairly, not in a pseudo-Scientific patronising attitude that gets walked back with subsequent News Interviews that prove otherwise.

There is a very long History of Western disinformation and some are quite recent.
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

That's the Eastern mindset and mine.

The COVID-19 vaccines have been thoroughly tested.

Basically my Rationale is above and, at my age, I really hate being patronised by a Political disposition in Government that sees itself as always being correct, albeit proven wrong.

It's as though Doubling Down and not admitting wrong positions in the past is the way forward.
The Track Record is there, even in this Government Branch.

 

[Lacius]

I'd be repeating myself if I continue, but you should understand that Politics plays a greater role in the optics than you give it credit for. My quote of your Comment is to underline the question why that is.

I believe in Track Records for everything unless I take a Leap of Faith.
Science shouldn't require said Leap, but when it does then it should be put in its Disclaimer fairly, not in a pseudo-Scientific patronising attitude that gets walked back with subsequent News Interviews that prove otherwise.

There is a very long History of Western disinformation and some are quite recent.
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

That's the Eastern mindset and mine.



Basically my Rationale is above and, at my age, I really hate being patronised by a Political disposition in Government that sees itself as always being correct, albeit proven wrong.

The Track Record proves itself, even in this Government Branch.

This should have nothing to do with politics. This is about science. If you have something against the COVID-19 vaccines, fine, but let's not pretend it's anything other than unscientific and irrational.

 

[Deleted User]

This should have nothing to do with politics.

In a perfect World, it shouldn't.
This isn't it, though.

If you have something against the COVID-19 vaccines, fine

Seems you're speed-reading my Comments a little too much.

I'm against Scientists peddling mRNA as 100% safe when they don't have the Scientific legs to stand on, by their own Scientific Methods of Rigorous Testing and continuous Testing.

If they're fair about the risks rather than patronise the World about it, all the better for adults like myself to accept the risks.

But they're pandering to an American crowd that thinks their lives saved isn't reward enough to take Vaccines so they should be entitled to a Lottery as well.

This is why there is said Baby Talk.
Reality apparently is too much to handle.

 

[Xzi]

you should understand that Politics plays a greater role in the optics than you give it credit for

Right, and the person most responsible for politicizing biology and science during the pandemic quietly got his vaccine shots in January. That should speak volumes about who's really getting the short end of the stick here.

I believe in Track Records for everything unless I take a Leap of Faith. Science shouldn't require said Leap

It doesn't. Assuming you understand the lingo, you can review the results of the clinical trials yourself, just as a board of scientists and biologists had to before approving vaccines for use on the general public. People can lie, but reproducible results of experiments conducted using the scientific method cannot. No faith required.

 

[Lacius]

In a perfect World, it shouldn't.
This isn't it, though.

It's your fault if you're making it a political issue.

Seems you're speed-reading my Comments a little too much.

I'm against Scientists peddling mRNA as 100% safe when they don't have the Scientific legs to stand on, by their own Scientific Methods of Rigorous Testing and continuous Testing.

If they're fair about the risks rather than patronise the World about it, all the better for adults like myself to accept the risks.

But they're pandering to an American crowd that thinks their lives saved isn't reward enough to take Vaccines so they should be entitled to a Lottery as well.

This is why there is said Baby Talk.
Reality apparently is too much to handle.

The COVID-19 vaccines were very thoroughly tested, and that's not even including the "test" of having hundreds of millions of doses given so far in the United States. The scientists have also been abundantly clear about the potential side effects. I'm not sure what more you could want.

 

[Deleted User]

The COVID-19 vaccines were very thoroughly tested

Nobody knew about Blood Clots until they showed up; so much for the vast body of work put into Research.

These comments make a mockery of Scientists and the Scientific Method, to pander to justifying the speedy schedule and soothing the Western crybabies that won't get vaccinated, mRNA or not.

quietly got his vaccine shots in January

Living is apparently more enjoyable than death.

The Japanese found out about Brain Damage from COVID-19.
Long COVID-19 only became known after the fact.

To say we know everything is an asinine proposition, both of the disease and the Vaccine used to prevent it.

 

[SG854]

I agree with the sentiment that people should not be pushing others to take the vaccine. Nobody has presented credentials in doing so.

That being said, I wish you would value your life more. You seem to value others more than yourself, which is better than doing the contrary--but still not ideal.

I've done absolutely 0 research on the vaccines and on their effectiveness or side affects. Mostly because im lazy to read and research. I just got the vaccine. Without any thought. And without any care about the side effects if there was any.

Maybe I should value my life more. Its only on this vaccine thing where I have that attitude. Of me not caring. Probably because I put a little faith in the Doctors and Experts. So it's my excuse to be lazy and not resrarch. I'll let them handle that. And trust they know what they are doing.

Bad approach? Maybe. To not be informed. Bad to not inform myself. But it's what I did.

 

[Xzi]

Living is apparently more enjoyable than death.

So why continue to politicize the virus and vaccines then? If it's good enough for dear leader, it should be good enough for all his underlings.

To say we know everything is an asinine preposition, both of the disease and the Vaccine used to prevent it.

Nobody said we know everything about the virus. Because of the clinical trials and all the data we've gathered from the general public, we do know that the vaccines are safe and very effective at preventing serious illness caused by the virus, however.

 

[Lacius]

Nobody knew about Blood Clots until they showed up; so much for the vast body of work put into Research.

These comments make a mockery of Scientists and the Scientific Method, to pander for justifying the speedy schedule and soothing the Western crybabies that won't get vaccinated, mRNA or not.

The odds of blood clots are about 1 in a million with the J&J vaccine. The blood clots didn't show up in the trials because they didn't include millions of people. In fact, scientists were clear before the trial data was released that, like with all trails, 1 in a million or 1 in 10 million odds occurrences were unlikely to pop up the in trials, and they were something to be on the lookout for. The J&J vaccine is still considered safe, despite the blood clot risk.

The mRNA vaccines do not have the blood clot risks that J&J vaccine has.

The fact remains that the COVID-19 vaccines have been demonstrated to be safe and effective.

Living is apparently more enjoyable than death.

Anybody who believes this for themselves, as well as for others, should get vaccinated ASAP if they can.

 

[Deleted User]

So why continue to politicize the virus and vaccines then?

Unfortunately, it's a circular argument we can't escape.

The reason for the zealous votes of confidence is purely Political, and thus every time it gets repeated it is repeated as a Political Statement rather than Scientific fact.

Personally, I prefer a level-headed approach.
Explain the reality of the Scientific Research, how we are part of the experiment to find that COVID-19 cure and assure the Public that everything is being done as Scientifically as possible within the Emergency Time Frame, but there are risks.

That statement never happened, because the West feared they would go insane with Lockdown, blame the rise of Household Violence to the rise of time spent together instead of questioning why a Family that can't stand being together is even a Family, etc.

And here we are.

The blood clots didn't show up in the trials because they didn't include millions of people.

Exactly.
Hopefully you understand what that means about Data Collection and the fallacy of relying on Lab numbers.

 

[Lacius]

Exactly.
Hopefully you understand what that means about Data Collection and the fallacy of relying on Lab numbers.

It's not a fallacy if the limitations of the experiments are acknowledged. The vaccines have been abundantly demonstrated to be safe and effective, before and after millions of people started getting vaccinated.

 

[Deleted User]

The vaccines have been abundantly demonstrated to be safe and effective

The blood clots didn't show up in the trials because they didn't include millions of people.

Maybe there's a different definition of Blood Clot you have that isn't lethal for these two to make sense.
For the rest of the World, unfortunately, they don't.

It's an example of the argument being given to the World, instead of just telling the truth.
I prefer if people don't patronise me, but you might prefer empty reassurances. Different strokes.

 

[Lacius]

Maybe there's a different definition of Blood Clot you have that isn't lethal for these two to make sense.
For the rest of the World, unfortunately, they don't.

1. The blood clot risk is exceedingly rare, about 1 in a million.
2. Last I checked, there was only one instance in which the blood clot from the J&J vaccine was lethal.
3. Understanding and acknowledging the blood clot risk allows us to be on the lookout for potential blood clots, and we know how to treat them. This makes them a lot less lethal.
4. The blood clot risk is much higher with other medications than with the J&J vaccine. The odds of blood clots with oral contraceptives, for example, are about 1 in 3,000, and oral contraceptives are considered exceedingly safe.
5. Actually contracting COVID-19 increases the risks of blood clots (and comes with many other health risks unrelated to blood clots), so if your goal is to reduce the risk of blood clots, getting any COVID-19 vaccine is the way to do it.
6. COVID-19 comes with the potential for various health complications that are far more probable than 1 in a million. Without getting into the specific potential health complications and their odds, the risk of hospitalization is about 1 in 5, and the risk of death is about 1 in 100.
7. Getting vaccinated protects the people around you, not just yourself.

With or without J&J's blood clot risk, the vaccines are considered very safe and very effective. If you don't want the J&J vaccine, even though it's safe, get one of the other ones.

Edit: To put all of this in perspective, last I checked, only one American has died as a result of a vaccination (and the lethality of that complication is mitigated by knowing about it now), and nearly 600,000 Americans have died of COVID-19.

 

[Xzi]

The reason for the zealous votes of confidence is purely Political, and thus every time it gets repeated it is repeated as a Political Statement rather than Scientific fact.

You've got it completely twisted, there's more than enough data out there to back pro-vaccine arguments without mentioning anything that's inherently political. Anti-vaxx arguments are the ones based entirely on emotional response, political distrust, and general misinformation. That crowd is never going to provide you with any valid scientific data, best you'll get from them are memes about Bill Gates.

 

[Deleted User]

... I am getting another Vaccine, Sinovac, and I'm starting to think you went into this not actually reading my Comments and thinking I'm against Vaccines.

The blood clot risk is exceedingly rare, about 1 in a million.

Although I understand you say this as a reassurance, being an Asian and growing up raised by my Family, this reads differently.

The proposition there is that 1 person will have to die for every 999,999 saved.
Even though we believe in the Greater Good, this number should be conveyed with the solemnity it deserves.

That is also why these Press releases get to the older Asians I know.

 

[Lacius]

... I am getting another Vaccine, Sinovac, and I'm starting to think you went into this not actually reading my Comments and thinking I'm against Vaccines.



Although I understand you say this as a reassurance, being an Asian and growing up raised by my Family, this reads differently.

The proposition there is that 1 person will have to die for every 999,999 saved.
Even though we believe in the Greater Good, this number should be conveyed with the solemnity it deserves.

That is also why these Press releases get to the older Asians I know.

You're making some mistakes. 1 in a million blood clot risk is not a 1 in a million death risk. You're also making the mistake of ignoring all of the information in my previous post about how not being vaccinated and contracting COVID-19 comes with far worse and far more probable risks.