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Covid-19 vaccine

Will you get the vaccine?

  • Yes

    Votes: 500 67.1%
  • No

    Votes: 245 32.9%

  • Total voters
    745
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Foxi4

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Last response since clearly for fuck sake you can't see the point I am making here so I'll spell it out for you.

1. Humans already tampered with "natural selection" through enabling and helping vulnerable people.
2. As a result, in effect the definition of natural selection for human beings have changed. We choose who we get to marry. It's not "who's the fittest"
3. we don't live "alone" we're not lone predators we're a social species.
4. By allowing anti maskers and anti vaxxers to say, and enable their behavior through saying "well it's just a natural selection"
might as well be in effect, eugenics. Why? Because anti vaxxers are CHOOSING yes you heard me right. CHOOSING to make it more likely for those people to die. That's in effect egenics. Since it's two parts, who gets to have better genes for the "next generation", and who doesn't get into the gene pool or have kids
The fact that humans have an impact on their natural environment does not remove them from the cycle of natural selection. Choice was never divorced from natural selection - in many cases animals also select their mates, humans simply formalised the process. Animals aren’t lone agents either - many operate within various forms of structures. The fact that we have tools which enable us to reinforce our innate biological characteristics, such as our immune system, does not mean that anyone is forced to submit to such procedures. Patient choice is a quintessential human right, one can only submit to a medical procedure with informed consent. If they decide that they simply don’t want to submit, for whatever reason, you have no avenue to force them that doesn’t infringe upon their inherent right to bodily autonomy - you’re not in charge of another person’s body. There’s nothing to “allow” or “prohibit” here, it’s simply none of your business. On the flip side, you can choose whom you associate with, and you can avoid people who do not align with your strongly-held beliefs regarding vaccination. You’re in charge of your body and your body alone, and you can make reasonable precautions to minimise your risk, including, but not limited to vaccinating. You’re not in charge of the risk/reward calculus of complete strangers.
 

Foxi4

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I doubt the guy thought about it that hard either way and clearly just wanted to say something dismissive.
The human brain is an interesting organ. Every single moment of our lives we make calculations, consciously or unconsciously, based on what we know, what we think and what we believe. When you stand in front of a cliff, you experience an involuntary response which compels you to take a step backwards. You haven’t consciously considered how tall the cliff is, what’s all the way down there, what your likelyhood of survival is etc. - none of these things have entered your conscious thought process, but your brain already considered them, in a rudimentary fashion. People have the exact same response to other forms of stimuli, except it’s less obvious. People don’t generally reconsider things that they find self-evident. Assuming that someone’s response is calculated to dismiss is to assume some form of hostile intent, which I don’t think is right. More likely than not, they’ve already considered something before and compartmentalised it. If you want to discuss an issue, you have to explore and unpack that instead of assuming that they’re being purposefully dismissive.
 

captain_obvious

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We've reached the stage where the pandemic has become endemic. Everyone who will get vaccinated already is. Everyone who refuses to get vaccinated still isn't. There's no point continuing this shitty discussion.
 

Xzi

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We've reached the stage where the pandemic has become endemic. Everyone who will get vaccinated already is. Everyone who refuses to get vaccinated still isn't. There's no point continuing this shitty discussion.
Indeed, conservatives nominating themselves for the Herman Cain Award already flipped Georgia blue. Will be interesting to see how many more states the suicide pact loses them before they finally acknowledge it was a bad idea.
 

Foxi4

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Indeed, conservatives nominating themselves for the Herman Cain Award already flipped Georgia blue. Will be interesting to see how many more states the suicide pact loses them before they finally acknowledge it was a bad idea.
Anti-vaccine sentiment is not distinctly conservative. Perhaps during COVID season it has been, but not historically. Not so long ago the vaccination rates in overwhelmingly affluent and liberal parts of the country like L.A. were comparable to those in South Sudan.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...tion-rates-are-as-low-as-south-sudans/380252/

The anti-vaxx movement used to be propagated by prominent Hollywood figures, not Bible Belt Republicans. California’s SB 277 bill which removed personal belief as a reason for exemption in regards to vaccination was not protested by conservatives, it was protested by hippie-dippie liberals who smelled of patchouli, believed in healing crystals and the magical power of yoga. I know that we’re supposed to have collective amnesia nowadays and the only thing that matters is “current year”, but I for one remember what happened in 2014.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6406a5.htm

You don’t get to preach that this is a conservative issue exclusively when overwhelmingly liberal areas of the country suffered from measles outbreaks. This was so interesting to the CDC at the time that they actually conducted a study on it, and wouldn’t you know it, areas that voted for Obama had higher levels of vaccine hesitancy than areas that voted for Romney, by a large margin:

https://www.realclearscience.com/jo...r_conservatives_more_anti-vaccine_108905.html

We’re talking about tried and tested vaccines, not a brand-new type of vaccine that was just introduced to the market and people were unfamiliar with it.

The 2010’s anti-vaccine movement, supported by liberals (at least according to this data) caused the biggest *whooping cough* death toll in 70 years.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/steven...he-worst-whooping-cough-epidemic-in-70-years/

I think the gloating is a little premature, mister - up until 5 minutes ago (in historical terms) it was the liberals whom you’d consider stupid, uneducated and “going against the science”. Separating this issue across the party line is wilfully ignorant of historical precedent.
 

lolcatzuru

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Anti-vaccine sentiment is not distinctly a conservative feature. Perhaps during COVID season it has been, but not historically. Not so long ago the vaccination rates in overwhelmingly affluent and liberal parts of the country like L.A. were comparable to those in South Sudan.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...tion-rates-are-as-low-as-south-sudans/380252/

The anti-vaxx movement used to be propagated by prominent Hollywood figures, not Bible Belt Republicans. California’s SB 277 bill which removed personal belief as a reason for exemption in regards to vaccination was not protested by conservatives, it was protested by hippie-dippie liberals who smelled of patchouli, believed in healing crystals and the magical power of yoga. I know that we’re supposed to have collective amnesia nowadays and the only thing that matters is “current year”, but I for one remember what happened in 2014.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6406a5.htm

You don’t get to preach that this is a conservative issue exclusively when overwhelmingly liberal areas of the country suffered from measles outbreaks. This was so interesting to the CDC at the time that they actually conducted a study on it, and wouldn’t you know it, areas that voted for Obama had higher levels of vaccine hesitancy than areas that voted for Romney:

https://www.realclearscience.com/jo...r_conservatives_more_anti-vaccine_108905.html

We’re talking about tried and tested vaccines, not a brand-new type of vaccine that was relatively new to the market and people were unfamiliar with it.

The 2010’s anti-vaccine movement, supported by liberals (at least according to this data) caused the biggest *whooping cough* death toll in 70 years.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/steven...he-worst-whooping-cough-epidemic-in-70-years/

I think the gloating is a little premature, mister - up until 5 minutes ago (in historical terms) it was the liberals whom you’d consider stupid, uneducated and “going against the science”. Separating this issue across the party line is wilfully ignorant of historical precedent.

areas voting for obama isnt a surprise, they are the same areas that are getting flooded with the greatest people to ever live right now, and shockingly, none of them have vaccinations for anything, and people get measles and they cant be kicked out because woke.
 

Xzi

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The anti-vaxx movement used to be propagated by prominent Hollywood figures, not Bible Belt Republicans.
Oh I'm well aware, but there's nothing the conservative right loves more than a D-list celebrity who reinforces the Dunning-Kruger effect in them.

I think the gloating is a little premature, mister - up until 5 minutes ago (in historical terms) it was the liberals whom you’d consider stupid, uneducated and “going against the science”. Separating this issue across the party line is wilfully ignorant of historical precedent.
Who am I to argue with the results? I don't support the concept of "social Darwinism," but when it's self-selecting, I might as well enjoy the show. COVID is very unlikely to be the last pandemic we see in our lifetimes thanks to the ever-worsening effects of climate change, so it's good to know ahead of time who among us plans to punch out early.
 
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tabzer

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Hippies leaning right is like pigs flying. What can we believe? It's cool that people are outing themselves that they believe that life is doomed, so you can skip straight to their actual point of view, and bypass them if you aren't interested. I'm interested in what comes after them, myself.
 
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I think the gloating is a little premature, mister - up until 5 minutes ago (in historical terms) it was the liberals whom you’d consider stupid, uneducated and “going against the science”. Separating this issue across the party line is wilfully ignorant of historical precedent.
Yes, in the past antivaxxers used to be largely composed by a small subset of "health conscious liberals". However, post COVID-19, vaccination status correlates very strongly with political orientation, such that if you are unvaccinated, it is an extremely strong indicator that you are rightwing, and have been disinformed by cheat-o-man and related rightwing disinformation mongers. These enlightened folks will often claim that they believe in vaccines, but not COVID vaccines, because of a bunch of BS politicized reasons that supposedly make it somehow unsafe, while they misread the statistics about various risks and rationalize how incredibly smart they are for not getting it, all while putting themselves and others at greater risk spreading the virus. I trust the science, not politicians, and will be getting the updated MNRA booster this fall.
 
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Foxi4

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Yes, in the past antivaxxers used to be largely composed by a small subset of "health conscious liberals". However, post COVID-19, vaccination status correlates very strongly with political orientation, such that if you are unvaccinated, it is an extremely strong indicator that you are rightwing, and have been disinformed by cheat-o-man and related rightwing disinformation mongers. These enlightened folks will often claim that they believe in vaccines, but not COVID vaccines, because of a bunch of BS politicized reasons that supposedly make it somehow unsafe, while they misread the statistics about various risks and rationalize how incredibly smart they are for not getting it, all while putting themselves and others at greater risk spreading the virus. I trust the science, not politicians, and will be getting the updated MNRA booster this fall.
My point is that attitudes change all the time and there’s nothing indicating that this “health-conscious” crowd isn’t going to re-emerge 10 years down the line when another disease emerges. You can poke fun at “conservatives” until the cows come home, not so long ago it was your camp doing the exact same thing. In fact, they very well may still hold the exact same beliefs today and just lie to their friends and family so as to avoid social stigma. Knowing all this, you’re willingly barking up the wrong tree and focusing on politics instead of focusing on the issue at hand. This has a strong scent of “oh, I always believed this to be true, honest!” and I don’t think this egg-on-face factoid is being pointed out enough in the context of vaccine hesitancy today. Those guys had the exact same slogans you see currently, y’know.
 

RetroGen

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My point is that attitudes change all the time and there’s nothing indicating that this “health-conscious” crowd isn’t going to re-emerge 10 years down the line when another disease emerges. You can poke fun at “conservatives” until the cows come home, not so long ago it was your camp doing the exact same thing. In fact, they very well may still hold the exact same beliefs today and just lie to their friends and family so as to avoid social stigma. Knowing all this, you’re willingly barking up the wrong tree and focusing on politics instead of focusing on the issue at hand. This has a strong scent of “oh, I always believed this to be true, honest!” and I don’t think this egg-on-face factoid is being pointed out enough in the context of vaccine hesitancy today. Those guys had the exact same slogans you see currently, y’know.
Not my "camp" there Mr. Overgeneralizer. I think for myself, and generally follow the science. But don't stop with your pseudointellectual, blindered, hyper-partisan confirmation bias. It's entertaining!
 

NoobletCheese

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Utter nonsense. Retail is the least monopolised sector of business there is, the selection of retailers that carry groceries goes from the dollar store all the way up to expensive boutique. You can buy in person, you can order delivery, you can do anything you want. The idea that people in the developed world have trouble acquiring groceries in the 21st century is asinine.

But your position is that ALL BUSINESSES can choose to not serve people who aren't jabbed.

And you wouldn't accept your own rebuttal in the case of other forms of discrimination, so what's different about this one? Why are you so sympathetic to religious groups, DNA groups and chromosome groups, but so hostile and zealous towards groups who are pro-consent? Whats the difference that justifies such an extreme swing of your viewpoint? Eventually you'll have to bite the bullet and admit it's all about Covid risk levels.

Here's a hypothetical for you: imagine certain groups had a statistically higher chance of being infected even if they are vaccinated. Is it ok for businesses to turn them away? What if you were part of this group? Suppose we define this group as: vaccinated people who have not tested negative on a RAT test. Statistically these people are around twice as likely to spread Covid, so would you defend testing mandates at the grocery store, hardware store etc? Would you support businesses refusing to serve to gay men in the 80's on the basis they are more likely to have AIDS?

Argument ad absurdum. A contract which features demands that are illegal is automatically unenforceable and thus null and void. One cannot give consent to be raped, that’s an oxymoron. You’re really trying hard, aren’t you?

What's the difference? In both cases you want to penetrate my skin and put your genetic material inside me without my consent, or else you'll fire me. How is that any different to what Weinstein was doing? Where is it in my employment contract that I have to take all these injections of novel genetic material? Again you're going to have to bite the bullet and admit you're using my risk level as the basis for your defense of mandates.

I am only required to treat you in the same way as I treat everybody else regardless of their inherent characteristics.

So if it's an inherent characteristic, you'll allow people to be superspreaders and put others at risk? Where's the logical pathway between "S can't help injuring others" and "therefore others have to accept being injured by S"?

How are religious beliefs "inherent", but my belief in consent is somehow not inherent and can be trampled all over? Am I capable of waking up tomorrow and just deciding to believe that consent doesn't matter? How do I do that? And even if I could do that, why should I do that?


If I require all of my employees to have up-to-date vaccinations because I run a business in the food sector and I cannot afford to have my merchandise involved in a disease-related scandal

So prove it. Prove that I'm an increased risk to anyone. You can't win that argument, because:

1. You're already taking the risk of a disease-related scandal by allowing half of your employees to be unvaccinated (since the jabs are only around 50% effective at preventing infections)

2. I'm tested negative. This actually makes me a LOWER RISK than a vaccinated employee who hasn't tested negative

3. I can take an antibody test to show I've got natural immunity, which is superior to vaccination

4. Everyone else is up to date on their vaccinations which provides them with high levels of protection from the virus in the case that they did get infected, so there was never any risk of a scandal in the first place

Any one of the above would be sufficient, but I've got all four. You're nowhere near abolishing my consent.

The only thing I will say in your favour is that if someone signs an employment contract and gives informed consent to be injected, then you can jab them. But if they get injured or die from your injections, they can still sue you for damages (and hopefully this will bankrupt you).

From a moral standpoint The Golden Rule states they could reciprocate any injuries or death back on to you, however that would only apply if they were misinformed about the safety of your injections - this is relevant to the "informed" part of "informed consent". If the safety is not sufficiently "informed", then all injuries and deaths can be reciprocated back onto you the employer. And I'll remind you again that 3 deaths is mass murder according to the US Department of Justice, so you better hope 3 or more haven't died from your jabs.
 
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smf

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What's the difference? In both cases you want to penetrate my skin and put your genetic material inside me without my consent, or else you'll fire me.

That is a negotiation. Think of it like sex, you are with a woman who wants to have sex with you. She wants you to wear a condom, you don't want to wear a condom.

You can't complain that you are not consenting to sex without a condom, therefore she should allow you to have sex without a condom.

Both parties have to consent, if you don't then you part company.

If your boss actually forced you to have a vaccine and didn't offer you the option of leaving employment without being vaccinated, then it would be against your consent.

If you are working from home then it would be silly to have a vaccine policy, but if you refuse to be vaccinated then you are at risk of being around other people who do not consent to be around you without being vaccinated (which could be other employees or customers).

The question is whether you actually support the importance of consent in all cases, or only when it suits you.
 

NoobletCheese

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Anything with a punishment for noncompliance, is forced.

Otherwise you would have to believe that nobody is forced to obey the law.

The more severe the punishment, the stronger the degree of force.
 
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RetroGen

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People's behavior is driven by what they believe and the sources they trust. Rightwing sources promoted a lot of vaccine mis/disinformation. I follow the science, but science is deemed "liberal" and "elitist" by populist conservatives, so they dismiss scientific information at their own peril, and to the detriment of everyone else as they contribute to higher levels of viral spread, infection, hospitalization, and death.

Study on the politicization of COVID-19 vaccines: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8577882/

President Donald Trump initially downplayed the threat posed by COVID-19 and compared it to the flu in public remarks.9 The President also labeled it a “new hoax” [and said that] “the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus—they're politicizing it.”10 President Trump also promoted claims that the virus could be combatted by injecting or drinking disinfectant or bleach, and promoted hydroxychloroquine as a cure.11, 12 He also appeared in public without a mask and criticized his rival for the presidency, Joe Biden, for wearing one: “Did you ever see a man that likes a mask as much as him?… If I were a psychiatrist, I'd say this guy has some big issues.”13

Politicization thus was “baked into the context of the emergent coronavirus… From the earliest alarm, Republican politicians followed Trump's lead in publicly downplaying the threat, while Democrats responded with more concern, exhibiting different public cues.”9(p969),14 Further, portions of the American public were influenced by President Trump's messages on Twitter suggesting that the virus was a hoax, was not serious, or that unproven therapies should be used.15, 16, 17

Media coverage

Conflicting partisan messaging has been propagated by various news sources since the beginning of the outbreak. For instance, several popular right-leaning media outlets suggested that the virus was not as severe a health threat as was being portrayed. Instead, they claimed that coverage of the seriousness of the virus was misleading, a conspiracy by the Chinese government to harm the US economy, or a plot by the “deep state” to spread panic and hurt President Trump's chances for re-election. During the COVID-19 outbreak, Fox News was far more likely than CNN or MSNBC to include phrases raising skepticism about the impacts of the virus, with language such as “normal flu,” “political weapon,” and “flu panic” more prevalent in their coverage from February 1 through April 30, 2020.7, 8, 22

Social media messages compounded politicization of the virus.23, 24 Stories that circulated widely on social media included false claims (such as transmission of coronavirus through mosquito bites), conspiracy theories (the virus is spread by 5G towers) and pseudoscientific health therapies (eating garlic or drinking bleach can cure the disease).25 The speed and extent of this spread of false information via social media has been characterized as a kind of epidemic itself: a “misinfodemic.”26

Variability in vaccine acceptance/resistance

Politicization surrounding COVID-19 vaccines contributed to hesitancy, resistance, and opinion polarization. In June 2020, polls showed that about 34% of the U.S. public would accept a COVID-19 vaccine, and large differences existed in opinions between Republicans Democrats.52, 53, 41;1Those who intended to vote for President Trump were 35% more likely to say that they would not get vaccinated for COVID-19.54 As vaccine access expanded in the spring of 2021, the proportion of Americans stating that they intended to get vaccinated rose, but still lagged among Republicans.55 As Allcott et al. summarized it: “partisanship is a primary driver of attitudes about the pandemic and self-reported behaviors.”28(p4)

Republicans were more likely than Democrats to believe anti-vaccine misinformation.34 This reflected a growing skepticism among conservatives toward the scientific community in general, in part due to the rise of right-wing populist messages that pit “ordinary people” against “corrupt elites.”56, 57 This distrust of experts was associated with the rejection of scientific messages about vaccines.58 Populist rhetoric may have primed anti-intellectual considerations that made public health messages less impactful among conservatives.59
 

WalterSlovotsky

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I just have to ask again, of anyone who believes in getting this vaccine.

If it WORKS, and if it actually protects you, then why would it matter if someone else chooses not to get the jab?

If it's that effective, and will prevent you from contracting this new form of SARS, shouldn't you be totally fine?

Either you believe it works or you don't. If you believe, then have faith! You're TOTALLY safe!

Just ask Jill Biden, one of the people on the planet who has some of the best healthcare provided to anyone in the world.

Oh, wait. Quintuple-jabbed Dr. Jill JUST got COVID...

Hmmmm...
 

Foxi4

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But your position is that ALL BUSINESSES can choose to not serve people who aren't jabbed.
Yup. Every single business has the option of doing this - it’s their property and their choice. Once you have your own business, you too will be able to be selective about your customer base.
And you wouldn't accept your own rebuttal in the case of other forms of discrimination, so what's different about this one?
The law. If that wasn’t the case, I’d be against the existence of *any* protected group - the owner of the establishment should have the final say on who gets to enter and who doesn’t, regardless of whether other people consider that discriminatory or not.
Why are you so sympathetic to religious groups, DNA groups and chromosome groups, but so hostile and zealous towards groups who are pro-consent? Whats the difference that justifies such an extreme swing of your viewpoint? Eventually you'll have to bite the bullet and admit it's all about Covid risk levels.

Here's a hypothetical for you: imagine certain groups had a statistically higher chance of being infected even if they are vaccinated. Is it ok for businesses to turn them away? What if you were part of this group? Suppose we define this group as: vaccinated people who have not tested negative on a RAT test. Statistically these people are around twice as likely to spread Covid, so would you defend testing mandates at the grocery store, hardware store etc? Would you support businesses refusing to serve to gay men in the 80's on the basis they are more likely to have AIDS?
What’s this “support” nonsense? I don’t support anything, I don’t support discrimination on any basis and I’m against vaccine passports ideologically speaking. That being said, I recognise that the owner of the business has the authority in regards to who gets to enter and who doesn’t. It’s their property. They get to decide that, in the same way as you get to decide who enters *your property*. There’s no difference here. I’m not entitled to be your guest, you have to let me into your home. You’re not entitled to be my customer, if I don’t want to do business with you, that’s where our exchange ends. Facing this terrible dilemma I would simply shop elsewhere, or order online. The store would lose my business and somebody else would make money, this is not difficult.
What's the difference? In both cases you want to penetrate my skin and put your genetic material inside me without my consent, or else you'll fire me. How is that any different to what Weinstein was doing? Where is it in my employment contract that I have to take all these injections of novel genetic material? Again you're going to have to bite the bullet and admit you're using my risk level as the basis for your defense of mandates.
Well, for starters, rape (along with other non-consensual forms of sexual activity) is a felony under 18 U.S.C. §§ 2241–2248. We can end it here. This argument is so silly that it can only be described with gamer words, surely you realise this.
So if it's an inherent characteristic, you'll allow people to be superspreaders and put others at risk? Where's the logical pathway between "S can't help injuring others" and "therefore others have to accept being injured by S"?

How are religious beliefs "inherent", but my belief in consent is somehow not inherent and can be trampled all over? Am I capable of waking up tomorrow and just deciding to believe that consent doesn't matter? How do I do that? And even if I could do that, why should I do that?
The law says so. I don’t have an option not to follow those rules.
So prove it. Prove that I'm an increased risk to anyone. You can't win that argument, because:
I already won and am not obligated to prove anything. It’s my business and my property. There is absolutely nothing you can say or do that invalidates that, and that’s the only thing that matters. I can kick you out because I don’t like the shirt you’re wearing. This is not a negotiation as was suggested above - this is happening, you just need to make peace with it. If you refuse to leave, I can call the police and have you done in for trespass, or I can use reasonable force to remove you from the premises, effective immediately.
1. You're already taking the risk of a disease-related scandal by allowing half of your employees to be unvaccinated (since the jabs are only around 50% effective at preventing infections)

2. I'm tested negative. This actually makes me a LOWER RISK than a vaccinated employee who hasn't tested negative

3. I can take an antibody test to show I've got natural immunity, which is superior to vaccination

4. Everyone else is up to date on their vaccinations which provides them with high levels of protection from the virus in the case that they did get infected, so there was never any risk of a scandal in the first place

Any one of the above would be sufficient, but I've got all four. You're nowhere near abolishing my consent.
I can just not care about your consent, have you considered that distinct possibility? You’re not in charge of my business - I am.
The only thing I will say in your favour is that if someone signs an employment contract and gives informed consent to be injected, then you can jab them. But if they get injured or die from your injections, they can still sue you for damages (and hopefully this will bankrupt you).
No, they can’t. That’s not how informed consent works. You take the good with the bad, every medical procedure carries a risk of negative side effects, however infinitesimally small that risk may be. You consented knowing this to be true. You can try suing the manufacturer, but vaccine manufacturers are famously shielded from litigation by the U.S. government, so I’m afraid you’ll be drafting a class action against the fed, not against me - I didn’t make the vaccine you took, I didn’t distribute it and I didn’t administer it. You also can’t sue me for having an accident on your way to work - I’m sorry that your car malfunctioned, but I had nothing to do with that, I just required you to show up at 9:00.
From a moral standpoint The Golden Rule states they could reciprocate any injuries or death back on to you, however that would only apply if they were misinformed about the safety of your injections - this is relevant to the "informed" part of "informed consent". If the safety is not sufficiently "informed", then all injuries and deaths can be reciprocated back onto you the employer. And I'll remind you again that 3 deaths is mass murder according to the US Department of Justice, so you better hope 3 or more haven't died from your jabs.
Tremendously silly for the reason stated above. You gave informed consent and knew the risks, I am not responsible for you, I’m not your dad. I just pay you to show up and do a job according to my specifications. Bark up a different tree, your injury was not caused by me.
Not my "camp" there Mr. Overgeneralizer. I think for myself, and generally follow the science. But don't stop with your pseudointellectual, blindered, hyper-partisan confirmation bias. It's entertaining!
Would you not describe yourself as left-leaning, or liberal, or whatever tag du jour you guys prefer? If you want to out yourself as a conservative then I’ll bake you a welcome cake and prepare your scarlet letter t-shirt, they’re required nowadays.
 
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