Covid-19 vaccine

[Xzi]

Anti-vaxxer armageddon is here. Biden to require all businesses with more than 100 employees to mandate vaccinations or weekly testing: https://www.businessinsider.com/bid...over-100-employees-to-mandate-vaccines-2021-9

Most employers are likely to mandate vaccines, as weekly testing would be a PITA logistically for large businesses. All government employees and contractors will also be required to get vaccinated.

 

[notimp]

The study reads like it was written by a child, its sample size is not representative (N=37 ain’t shit), the numbers themselves are highly suspect (they’ve invited 350-odd individuals and only *10%* of that group had “optimal sperm parameters” prior to treatment? Okay), it’s published by the finest researchers Cirque du Soleil had to offer,

They tried to go for a bigger sample size, and only got a small one - happens. Suspiciously small for the size they originally tested (came to my mind as well), but thought it was worthwhile to say that they originally tested around 500, instead of you just focusing down on 37 - because it fits your argument. Not optimal sperm parameters, but normal ones. Which - if they f.e. would work in a malaria ward - could be somewhat rationally explained (I'm no expert) perhaps. But agree that the 37 in the end are far from statistically representative - but as studies go, sometimes you take what you can get. Reading as if written by a child can be explained by the authors being foreigners, they use the terms of the trade though, so I'm inclined to believe, that you are embelishing your fact finding mojo here, same as with names -- sometimes the best studies come from where people having an interest in finding that information. So if Ivermectin is largely used at scale in developing countries, you wont find those studies from reknown institutions...

So agree on 37 actually was a red flag. But not one fit to denounce the entire thing, and that pretty much you go to town trying to say how prolific you are on all other points, ...

The actual red lines, where you probably should discard the findings are those, that the study apparently wasnt peer reviewed (otherwise reviewers would have corrected grammatical errors), and that the "journal" sold publishing space for a high service charge, and now apparently has vanished from twitter, where it was banned, and Snopes not being able to contact the study authors.

You dont dismiss a study, just because it only had 37 participants willing to jerk off into a cup. You just acknowledge, that it is not statistically representative. But you might dismiss the study based on all the other findings, hinting at "issues" with scientific method. (Of which not being representative is one - could still have been valid though, but then there are the other issues with it.)

 

[Foxi4]

They tried to go for a bigger sample size, and only got a small one - happens. Suspiciously small for the size they originally tested (came to my mind as well), but thought it was worthwhile to say that they originally tested around 500, instead of you just focusing down on 37 - because it fits your argument. Not optimal sperm parameters, but normal ones. Which - if they f.e. would work in a malaria ward - could be somewhat rationally explained (I'm no expert) perhaps. But agree that the 37 in the end are far from statistically representative - but as studies go, sometimes you take what you can get. Reading as if written by a child can be explained by the authors being foreigners, they use the terms of the trade though, so I'm inclined to believe, that you are embelishing your fact finding mojo here, same as with names -- sometimes the best studies come from where people having an interest in finding that information. So if Ivermectin is largely used at scale in developing countries, you wont find those studies from reknown institutions...

So agree on 37 actually was a red flag. But not one fit to denounce the entire thing, and that pretty much you go to town trying to say how prolific you are on all other points, ...

The actual red lines, where you probably should discard the findings are those, that the study apparently wasnt peer reviewed (otherwise reviewers would have corrected grammatical errors), and that the "journal" sold publishing space for a high service charge, and now apparently has vanished from twitter, where it was banned, and Snopes not being able to contact the study authors.

You dont dismiss a study, just because it only had 37 participants willing to jerk off into a cup. You just acknowledge, that it is not statistically representative. But you might dismiss the study based on all the other findings, hinting at "issues" with scientific method. (Of which not being representative is one - could still have been valid though, but then there are the other issues with it.)

This study doesn’t concern malaria, it concerns river blindness, caused by Onchocerca Volvulus infection. It’s a parasite that affects 46k+ patients annually, primarily in Africa. It’s also treated with ivermectin by default. If all they could find was 350-odd participants, out of which only 37 had “normal” sperm counts and ultimately qualified, the study is bunk. Moreover, you’re not checking whether the patient has normal sperm count or not, you’re checking whether ivermectin has any effect on it by comparing samples pre and post treatment - you don’t need participants with “perfect” sperm counts for that. The methodology is stupid and the results are suspect. It’s obvious if you actually read it, which you didn’t, considering you don’t know what it was about. Please don’t tell me how to judge a study, between the two of us only one person got tricked, and it wasn’t me.

 

[notimp]

There we go, now we have a (somewhat) complete picture.

 

[BitMasterPlus]

Anti-vaxxer armageddon is here. Biden to require all businesses with more than 100 employees to mandate vaccinations or weekly testing: https://www.businessinsider.com/bid...over-100-employees-to-mandate-vaccines-2021-9

Most employers are likely to mandate vaccines, as weekly testing would be a PITA logistically for large businesses. All government employees and contractors will also be required to get vaccinated.

Ah yes, this will certainly not cause any infighting. People will finally comply and get 15 thousand experimental shots shoved up their ass no problem. Let's all obey our glorious red government!

I find it funny that people are worried about the unvaccinated, which if the vaccine worked, those who took the shot should have nothing to worry about. It doesn't matter how many are unvaccinated if you are vaccinated, you're protected. Unless most of the vaccine's are shit and don't work? ......Nah. Same goes for natural immunity as well since if you had the virus and got over it you'd have the antibodies to fight it if you try to get the virus again.

I mean sure, humanity as a whole survived Ebola, swine flu, leprosy, mumps, polio, and even way back when with the black plague without the advancement of modern medicines. But the wuhan coronavirus is 10000000000000000000000 times worse than any of them. I mean, it damn near wiped out the human race, right? Just take the experimental jabs, give our government officials rim jobs of compliance, and shut yo mouth! Thank god we got that previous nazi tyrant out of office so we could get this new totally not tyrant and totally not power hungry administration in to force- I mean, kindly direct us what to do.

 

[Foxi4]

Ah yes, this will certainly not cause any infighting. People will finally comply and get 15 thousand experimental shots shoved up their ass no problem. Let's all obey our glorious red government!

I find it funny that people are worried about the unvaccinated, which if the vaccine worked, those who took the shot should have nothing to worry about. It doesn't matter how many are unvaccinated if you are vaccinated, you're protected. Unless most of the vaccine's are shit and don't work? ......Nah. Same goes for natural immunity as well since if you had the virus and got over it you'd have the antibodies to fight it if you try to get the virus again.

I mean sure, humanity as a whole survived Ebola, swine flu, leprosy, mumps, polio, and even way back when with the black plague without the advancement of modern medicines. But the wuhan coronavirus is 10000000000000000000000 times worse than any of them. I mean, it damn near wiped out the human race, right? Just take the experimental jabs, give our government officials rim jobs of compliance, and shut yo mouth!

1. It’s not experimental, it’s a product freely available on the market that passed clinical trials at this stage and is fully approved, not just approved due to emergency.
2. The Black Plague killed 25 million people, give or take. Would be nice if they had vaccines back then.
3. Leprosy is not very contagious, it doesn’t spread by touch for instance. It’s also not particularly dangerous thanks to modern medicine.
4. Polio has been, for the most part, eradicated with the help of vaccines. Without vaccinations we would still have Iron Lungs in every hospital.
5. Ebola case fatality used to be 90%, now it’s 25%, thanks to modern medicine.
6. Swine flu, much like other flus, was overcome thanks to vaccination programs and strict immigration control - would’ve worked for COVID as well if restrictions were implemented sooner. Sadly, the Chinese government wasn’t very truthful in regards to the risks early in, and now we’re here.

Seems to me that the current approach worked fine in the past. Regarding the new recommendations, I doubt that they can be signed into law in the first place, but we’ll see.

 

[KingVamp]

Well, I guess he is submitting test weekly.

 

[NyaakoXD]

1. It’s not experimental, it’s a product freely available on the market that passed clinical trials at this stage and is fully approved, not just approved due to emergency.
2. The Black Plague killed 25 million people, give or take. Would be nice if they had vaccines back then.
3. Leprosy is not very contagious, it doesn’t spread by touch for instance. It’s also not particularly dangerous thanks to modern medicine.
4. Polio has been, for the most part, eradicated with the help of vaccines. Without vaccinations we would still have Iron Lungs in every hospital.
5. Ebola case fatality used to be 90%, now it’s 25%, thanks to modern medicine.
6. Swine flu, much like other flus, was overcome thanks to vaccination programs and strict immigration control - would’ve worked for COVID as well if restrictions were implemented sooner. Sadly, the Chinese government wasn’t very truthful in regards to the risks early in, and now we’re here.

Seems to me that the current approach worked fine in the past. Regarding the new recommendations, I doubt that they can be signed into law in the first place, but we’ll see.

Typing out facts and logic here. But unfortunately this will go over certain people's heads.

 

[BitMasterPlus]

1. It’s not experimental, it’s a product freely available on the market that passed clinical trials at this stage and is fully approved, not just approved due to emergency.
2. The Black Plague killed 25 million people, give or take. Would be nice if they had vaccines back then.
3. Leprosy is not very contagious, it doesn’t spread by touch for instance. It’s also not particularly dangerous thanks to modern medicine.
4. Polio has been, for the most part, eradicated with the help of vaccines. Without vaccinations we would still have Iron Lungs in every hospital.
5. Ebola case fatality used to be 90%, now it’s 25%, thanks to modern medicine.
6. Swine flu, much like other flus, was overcome thanks to vaccination programs and strict immigration control - would’ve worked for COVID as well if restrictions were implemented sooner. Sadly, the Chinese government wasn’t very truthful in regards to the risks early in, and now we’re here.

Seems to me that the current approach worked fine in the past. Regarding the new recommendations, I doubt that they can be signed into law in the first place, but we’ll see.

1. It actually is still quite experimental since it was rushed into development then rushed out for the public to take. I don't encourage or discourage anyone to take the vaccine, I just advocate for choice and facts, and the fact is the vaccine is still experimental whether people want to admit that or not.
2. I know that, that's why I said humanity as a whole. We've recovered the population of losses quite nicely since then.
3. Maybe not, but way back when it was a real problem and people cast out because of it, way way back in the olden days.
4. Yes, but for a time, before vaccines, it was a problem people just had to deal with.
5. Same point at before. Evolution in medicine is good, I was just using these examples as how humanity had to deal with diseases since it's conception, and while dealing with them and finding cures has been tough, we've dealt with it and found cures or ways to mitigate it. Covid isn't a special case nor the ultimate disease to end all diseases as people act like it is. Compare to many diseases, it's just average and we're at the point that humans can take it.
6. Same as 5 I guess, but you're right in immigration surges, like how the current administration is flying illegals all across the country which is causing new coronavirus outbreaks to occur since they're not only unvaccinated with covid but with the possibility of a myriad of other diseases, but that's another topic.

Like I said, take or not, it's your choice, though I also do find it odd that people scream "my body, my choice" for abortions but want to force people to take the medicine they think is good for them experimental or not, even when the reason is because they don't want to get infected it's still not their body their talking about anymore and their vaccinations should protect them regardless. Could people want it both ways? Nah, that's probably just a conspiracy theory.

 

[ut2k4master]

1. It actually is still quite experimental since it was rushed into development then rushed out for the public to take. I don't encourage or discourage anyone to take the vaccine, I just advocate for choice and facts, and the fact is the vaccine is still experimental whether people want to admit that or not.
2. I know that, that's why I said humanity as a whole. We've recovered the population of losses quite nicely since then.
3. Maybe not, but way back when it was a real problem and people cast out because of it, way way back in the olden days.
4. Yes, but for a time, before vaccines, it was a problem people just had to deal with.
5. Same point at before. Evolution in medicine is good, I was just using these examples as how humanity had to deal with diseases since it's conception, and while dealing with them and finding cures has been tough, we've dealt with it and found cures or ways to mitigate it. Covid isn't a special case nor the ultimate disease to end all diseases as people act like it is. Compare to many diseases, it's just average and we're at the point that humans can take it.
6. Same as 5 I guess, but you're right in immigration surges, like how the current administration is flying illegals all across the country which is causing new coronavirus outbreaks to occur since they're not only unvaccinated with covid but with the possibility of a myriad of other diseases, but that's another topic.

Like I said, take or not, it's your choice, though I also do find it odd that people scream "my body, my choice" for abortions but want to force people to take the medicine they think is good for them experimental or not, even when the reason is because they don't want to get infected it's still not their body their talking about anymore and their vaccinations should protect them regardless. Could people want it both ways? Nah, that's probably just a conspiracy theory.

its not experimental, stop willfully ignoring facts.
abortions dont risk the lives of the people around you

 

[BitMasterPlus]

its not experimental, stop willfully ignoring facts.
abortions dont risk the lives of the people around you

It is experimental, you stop ignoring the facts.
Abortion affects the live that could've been but snuffed out by selfishness. I am aware that there are a few exceptions, rape and/or incest, but most of the time it's due to the incompetence of the person to take protection and not wanting to deal with the consequences.

 

[ut2k4master]

It is experimental, you stop ignoring the facts.
Abortion affects the live that could've been but snuffed out by selfishness. I am aware that there are a few exceptions, rape and/or incest, but most of the time it's due to the incompetence of the person to take protection and not wanting to deal with the consequences.

you saying it doesnt make it fact. the vaccines have been tested and fully approved, nothing "experimental" about it.
so you value one undeveloped life more than hundreds of people around you?

 

[WG481]

How on earth did a vaccine thread come to abortions?

you saying it doesnt make it fact. the vaccines have been tested and fully approved, nothing "experimental" about it.
so you value one undeveloped life more than hundreds of people around you?

You are right. I have had the vaccine in my bloodstream for forever and I haven't turned into a zombie, demon, or anything else.

 

[BitMasterPlus]

you saying it doesnt make it fact. the vaccines have been tested and fully approved, nothing "experimental" about it.
so you value one undeveloped life more than hundreds of people around you?

It's experimental. The end. It was rushed in development then rushed out to quell people's fears which it didn't work otherwise we wouldn't be fighting about it.
I value both lives, those who are still in the womb and out. I don't see how abortion can "save" lives if that's what you're implying.

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How on earth did a vaccine thread come to abortions?


You are right. I have had the vaccine in my bloodstream for forever and I haven't turned into a zombie, demon, or anything else.

Well good for you. I never said anything about turning into any of those things, I just say it's up to the person if they want to be wary or not.

 

[WG481]

It's experimental. The end. It was rushed in development then rushed out to quell people's fears which it didn't work otherwise we wouldn't be fighting about it.
I value both lives, those who are still in the womb and out. I don't see how abortion can "save" lives if that's what you're implying.

Dude, uneducated. It wasn't rushed out, medical tech has just advanced.

It can save a life because some people have complications so that if they birth the baby they die. Again, do your research (and not on Fox News.)

 

[ut2k4master]

It's experimental. The end. It was rushed in development then rushed out to quell people's fears which it didn't work otherwise we wouldn't be fighting about it.
I value both lives, those who are still in the womb and out. I don't see how abortion can "save" lives if that's what you're implying.

not "the end". they werent rushed out, they were tested like every other vaccine, in bigger numbers even. big funding certainly helped speed up the process. those types of viruses arent unknown, scientists know where to start looking for vaccines. its not some kind of complete guess work like youd like to frame it.
an abortion can save the lives of the parents mentally, physically and financially

 

[BitMasterPlus]

Dude, uneducated. It wasn't rushed out, medical tech has just advanced.

It can save a life because some people have complications so that if they birth the baby they die. Again, do your research (and not on Fox News.)

Dude, if you rush something out through fast tests and don't want to see the long term effects, it's still experimental. We have advance technology, but it's not that quite advance as most people would like to believe. We are still advancing, but that doesn't mean we can rush out shit because we're more advanced than we were 100 years ago so we know everything about everything, things still need time and observation.
And that is another exception of abortion you mentioned, but people getting abortions for the sake of it is wrong. More often than not, the exceptions listed are a minority and the majority is women getting abortions just because they can. I do my research, but I find it funny in a forum of computer geeks with access to the interwebs 24/7 and it's incredible wealth of information still act this stubborn and dumb on some topics.

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not "the end". they werent rushed out, they were tested like every other vaccine, in bigger numbers even. big funding certainly helped speed up the process. those types of viruses arent unknown, scientists know where to start looking for vaccines. its not some kind of complete guess work like youd like to frame it.
an abortion can save the lives of the parents mentally, physically and financially

It is rushed out, the end, and frankly, I'm done talking about this with you since it's not going anywhere productive. If you don't want to believe it's still not experimental, fine, that's on you. I'll be getting back to reality.
And what you listed on abortion reasons is pretty damn selfish, and not the exception. Don't wanna baby? Then you better have protection up the ass. You have no one to blame but yourself if a baby comes in because you were careless. The least you can do is give birth and give it for adoption then continue to live your life as a piece of shit while the baby has a chance to live it's own life without you.

 

[ut2k4master]

I'll be getting back to reality.

you should. youre stuck in some kind of "reality" you made up yourself

 

[subcon959]

Whether you believe the vaccines are experimental or not depends on your personal definition of experimental. In any case, it's hard to argue that their long term effects are well understood. In theory maybe, but you have to wait "long term" to gather the actual data. There is, however, plenty of data that it's better to get vaccinated than not when it comes to positive outcomes of Covid infection. It's also possible to have positive outcomes without being vaccinated but that is a much bigger gamble. Also, people seem to love bringing up side effects of vaccines but how do you know there are no long term effects of asymptomatic Covid infection that would've been mitigated by vaccine?

 

[BitMasterPlus]

you should. youre stuck in some kind of "reality" you made up yourself

Look who's talking.