BREXIT [Poll] vote!

[Uwabami]

@Xiphiidae
look at this :

You said that Germany wants to control all the EU countries trough the EU but than again 1/3 or the people here in Germany seem to want to leave too ... in your logic that would mean those people don't want their own country to be big .... I would say the they are actually just unhappy that the EU does NOT do what the German people would like it to do.

I would never want to leave the EU but I would prefer them to do important things instead of controlling how curved our bananas are allowed to be and forbidding my beloved Linda (potato) and stuff like this ... the EU did a lot of shit for me and wastes a big amount of money for politicians that go to work 1-2 days a week do nothing at all and get 10k€ a month ... still there are benefits.

Must you pull out that tired old Banana thing which is not even true anymore?

Yes, the EU needs reforms, but guess who was the big break hindering them?

 

[sarkwalvein]

Must you pull out that tired old Banana thing which is not even true anymore?

Yes, the EU needs reforms, but guess who was the big break hindering them?

Well perhaps after 70% UK joins the EU back and the pound becomes as strong as the Venezuelan Bolivar, England will beg its way in again.
(But then they wouldn't hold a strong word anymore)

 

[Uwabami]

Well perhaps after 70% UK joins the EU back and the pound becomes as strong as the Venezuelan Bolivar, England will beg its way in again.

You know, I've heard that even from some UK politicians. Cameron and his predecessors blaimed their own fuck-ups on the EU for years and took credit for EU archievments.

It's no suprise people followed their advice after decades of EU bashing.

And it's not like this will help their situation in any way. If they want to stay in the common market, they'll have to pay and keep their borders open. It's the rules, and now they'll have to follow them without being part of making them. Ask Norway and Switzerland how that feels.

 

[WiiUBricker]

More importantly, if the UK leaves the EU, do you have to pay customs if you import stuff from UK to EU countries?

 

[Xiphiidae]

You said that Germany wants to control all the EU countries trough the EU but than again 1/3 or the people here in Germany seem to want to leave too ... in your logic that would mean those people don't want their own country to be big .... I would say the they are actually just unhappy that the EU does NOT do what the German people would like it to do.

1. I never said that, I just said that Germany has the primary influence.

2. And that doesn't even mean that it benefits the German people. It benefits people like Tusk and Merkel, not to mention the owners of big German businesses. The German people should want to get rid of Merkel and the EU, as they are the ones who are forcing irresponsible migration policy on them, which is what harms the people of Germany the most. Those 1/3 that want out are the smart ones.

the EU did a lot of shit for me and wastes a big amount of money for politicians that go to work 1-2 days a week do nothing at all and get 10k€ a month ... still there are benefits.

Welcome to 'efficient' German bureaucracy.

 

[Uwabami]

1. I never said that, I just said that Germany has the primary influence.

2. And that doesn't even mean that it benefits the German people. It benefits people like Tusk and Merkel, not to mention the owners of big German businesses. The German people should want to get rid of Merkel and the EU, as they are the ones who are forcing irresponsible migration policy on them, which is what harms the people of Germany the most. Those 1/3 that want out are the smart ones.



Welcome to 'efficient' German bureaucracy.

I didn't vote for Merkel, but the migrant crisis is not as bad as some media outlets are making it out to be.

By the way, the UK and the other countries threatening to leave the EU because of it are the ones who caused the crisis beginning in colonial times up to the Irak war. It's their mess, really.

More importantly, if the UK leaves the EU, do you have to pay customs if you import stuff from UK to EU countries?

Only if they leave the common market, which would be economic suicide. Banks and car manufacturers already said that would make them leave. Production would need a few years to move, but banks could move practically over night.

 

[Youkai]

Well even if the banana thing is something old there are still a big lot of things the EU spends way to much money on even though it doesn't make any sense.
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/ex...money-pointless-projects-says-Stephen-Pollard
http://www.euractiv.com/section/reg...sted-on-white-elephant-airports-say-auditors/

Well as I said I am pro EU but still seeing millions of Euros being wasted makes me angry as this is a lot more money than I will ever earn in my whole life just thrown out for nothing.

 

[Xiphiidae]

By the way, the UK and the other countries threatening to leave the EU because of it are the ones who caused the crisis beginning in colonial times up to the Irak war. It's their mess, really.

Last time I checked, Tony Blair isn't PM anymore. It seems pretty ridiculous to me to force the British people to personal sacrifices for something that has nothing to do with them. I don't believe your ordinary British family are the ones who went to fight in Iraq.

Ah, yes, always blame the colonialism bogeyman; always focus on the past, never the present or future, and always blame the West as being solely responsible for the problems in the Middle and Near East :^)

And you say 'other countries'. Like who? Sweden? Greece? As far as I know, they were quite against the war in Iraq.

 

[Uwabami]

Well even if the banana thing is something old there are still a big lot of things the EU spends way to much money on even though it doesn't make any sense.
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/ex...money-pointless-projects-says-Stephen-Pollard
http://www.euractiv.com/section/reg...sted-on-white-elephant-airports-say-auditors/

Well as I said I am pro EU but still seeing millions of Euros being wasted makes me angry as this is a lot more money than I will ever earn in my whole life just thrown out for nothing.

EVERY form of government is guilty of pork-barrel spending. Citing tabloids and claiming a 400 million people entity has a bigger budget then you on your own hardly gives you any credibility.

Yes, there are big problems, but most of the things the Brexit campaign blamed on the EU were home-made.

Last time I checked, Tony Blair isn't PM anymore. It seems pretty ridiculous to me to force the British people to personal sacrifices for something that has nothing to do with them. I don't believe your ordinary British family are the ones who went to fight in Iraq.

Ah, yes, always blame the colonialism bogeyman; always focus on the past, never the present or future, and always blame the West as being solely responsible for the problems in the Middle and Near East :^)

And you say 'other countries'. Like who? Sweden? Greece? As far as I know, they were quite against the war in Iraq.

I didn't blame anyone personally, but a country as an entity certainly bears responsibility. Just like I and my family did not commit any crimes during both world wars, I still think my country is responsible.

And I was not only talking about the war in Iraq. Please don't twist my words.

 

[Deleted User]

Nice move UK!

 

[Xiphiidae]

I didn't blame anyone personally, but a country as an entity certainly bears responsibility. Just like I and my family did not commit any crimes during both world wars, I still think my country is responsible.

Even if you believe that (I don't; the Germany that exists now is completely different from the Germany that existed 75 years ago, it would make no sense to force responsibility or blame on modern-day Germany for what happened then), that is still not an argument for forcing the responsibility upon the ordinary working people of Britain; they should not be forced to make personal sacrifices.

I think the individuals actually responsible should hold the moral responsibility; I believe Tony Blair and G.W. Bush probably should be charged for war crimes, but that is no argument for Britain taking in migrants.

And I was not only talking about the war in Iraq. Please don't twist my words.

I'm not saying only the Iraq War, but you mentioned it specifically, and there's little-to-no relationship between Euroscepticism and Middle Eastern involvement, at least from what I can see.

 

[Uwabami]

Even if you believe that (I don't; the Germany that exists now is completely different from the Germany that existed 75 years ago, it would make no sense to force responsibility or blame on modern-day Germany for what happened then), that is still not an argument for forcing the responsibility upon the ordinary working people of Britain; they should not be forced to make personal sacrifices.

I think the individuals hold the moral responsibility; I believe Tony Blair and G.W. Bush probably should be charged for war crimes, but that is no argument for Britain taking in migrants.


I'm not saying only the Iraq War, but you mentioned it specifically, and there's little-to-no relationship between Euroscepticism and Middle Eastern involvement, at least from what I can see.

But the UK as a country can't act like this is not at least partly their fault as well.

Speaking of ordenary workers: they'll suffer the most from this. Poor parts of the UK like Cornwall are dependant big time on EU subsidies. I hardly believe a neocon government will step in to make up for all that EU money.

This is the reason Scotland and Northern Ireland will probably leave now by the way, they perceive the EU as a counter weight to the (in their view) too conservative UK government.

 

[Xiphiidae]

Speaking if ordenary workers: they'll suffer the most from this. Poor parts of the UK like Cornwall are dependant big time on EU subsidies. I hardly believe a neocon government will step in to make up for all that EU money.

Poor people in the UK survived before the EU and they will survive after, just as they do in somewhere like Australia. If you truly believe that the UK cannot protect its citizens without a supra-national entity controlling them, then I don't know what to tell you. Also, it's worth mentioning that generally richer areas voted Remain (e.g. London), whereas poorer areas (at least outside Scotland) tended to vote Leave (this isn't a super-strong connection, but there is a correlation).

At any rate, don't be so focused on the short-term; the Tories won't be in power for ever.

This is the reason Scotland and Ireland will probably leave now by the way, they perceive the EU as a counter weight to the (in their view) too conservative UK government.

Then that is their decision. I would just vote for a more Left-leaning party.

 

[EmanueleBGN]

I am certainly looking forward to the upcoming economic and political instability. That's certainly worth the 'freedom'. Can someone actually explain to me what this 'freedom' will entail?

Gotta say, I'm pretty chuffed I called out Cameron's timeframe. BooYah on that.

so, the capitalistic economy is more important than Democracy and People? Remove directly the elections and let the bankers and the EU dictators to decide for us (like in Italy that the last three prime ministers are dictators unelected)

 

[Youkai]

Poor people in the UK survived before the EU and they will survive after

lol poor people survived hundred of years ago as well but I wouldn't want to go back only because it somehow worked XD

 

[Uwabami]

Poor people in the UK survived before the EU and they will survive after, just as they do in somewhere like Australia. If you truly believe that the UK cannot protect its citizens without a supra-national entity controlling them, then I don't know what to tell you. Also, it's worth mentioning that generally richer areas voted Remain (e.g. London), whereas poorer areas (at least outside Scotland) tended to vote Leave (this isn't a super-strong connection, but there is a correlation).

At any rate, don't be so focused on the short-term; the Tories won't be in power for ever.


Then that is their decision. I would just vote for a more Left-leaning party.

I didn't say they won't survive I'm not someone for horror scenarios, but realistically, they will be set back. Rising prices for everyday commodities are certainly a big part of that.

The maps I saw showed that rich parts (like London) were for BREMAIN and poorer parts like Cornwall and the North were for the BREXIT. This was an emotional decision, not a rational one.

so, the capitalistic economy is more important than Democracy and People? Remove directly the elections and let the bankers and the EU dictators to decide for us (like in Italy that the last three prime ministers are dictators unelected)

This sounds a lot like an Italian problem, not like a European problem. But I agree that the people should be able to elect the commission directly. There is a lot to be done in the EU, but people tend to blame all their problems on it, when in reality, they benefit greatly from it.

 

[Xiphiidae]

lol poor people survived hundred of years ago as well but I wouldn't want to go back only because it somehow worked

Read the rest of my post. The EU is not a prerequisite for giving poor people assistance.

I didn't say they won't survive I'm not someone for horror scenarios, but realistically, they will be set back. Rising prices for everyday commodities are certainly a big part of that.

Because slightly cheaper food for a short while is more important than democracy, freedom and being able to decide how to live your own life? See @EmanueleBGN's post.

There is a lot to be done in the EU, but people tend to blame all their problems on it, when in reality, they benefit greatly from it.

That must be why four of the five richest countries in Europe aren't in the EU :^)

The maps I saw showed that rich parts (like London) were for BREMAIN and poorer parts like Cornwall and the North were for the BREXIT. This was an emotional decision, not a rational one.

Ah, yes, because you're an omniscient god and you can read everyone's minds and perfectly know their motivations, and it just happened that the people with whom you agree were the correct, intelligent, rational people, whereas those with whom you disagree were the stupid, emotional people, of course.

Please, with no due respect whatsoever, get over yourself.

 

[Pleng]

The margin was so slim, and with Scotland an N Ireland wishing to remain, I really dont think that the Kingdom deserves to call itself United any more

 

[Uwabami]

Read the rest of my post. The EU is not a prerequisite for giving poor people assistance.


Because slightly cheaper food for a short while is more important than democracy, freedom and being able to decide how to live your own life? See @EmanueleBGN's post.


That must be why four of the five richest countries in Europe aren't in the EU :^)


Ah, yes, because you're an omniscient god and you can read everyone's minds and perfectly know their motivations, and it just happened that the people with whom you agree were the correct, intelligent, rational people, whereas those with whom you disagree were the stupid, emotional people, of course.

Please, with no due respect whatsoever, get over yourself.

Four of the five richest countries, that's interesting. Who are you refering to besides Norway and Switzerland (and even they are in the common market)?

Regarding freedom: I respect their vote and I said many times already I even appreciate them leaving, because they never really liked being part of the EU (well, young people seem to like the EU it seems).

And no, I'm not a dictator nor a god. If people base their decision admittedly on how it feels instead of cold hart facts, it an emotional decision. A valid decision that has to be respected nontheless.

 

[cearp]

More importantly, if the UK leaves the EU, do you have to pay customs if you import stuff from UK to EU countries?

the uk can be out of the eu but still have agreements with other countries, i doubt things like mail and travel will be that affected.
although maybe they will be, we will see.