best way to learn Japanese

[Lukeage]

For those that are curious a very rough breakdown of what each type of kana is used for:
Kanji - Meaning of the word
Hiragana - Grammar

The Hiragana parts of "words" are usually the parts you change when you inflect a verb or adjective... I wouldn't say Hiragana's purpose is soley grammar though.

university uses these for their 'Japanese for Business' courses, which are a cut down versions of the full blown Japanese course.

The Japanese names for these books translates "Japanese for the pupose of communication", which is exactly what they teach.
If you get hardcore into Japanese you should get some of the advanced books published under the power japanese series, published by tuttle now, these will make your brain explode.

As I said, those were very rough explanations, I'm sure someone with a better focus on linguistics could give a much better explanation as to what their functions are directly. That said, inflection and particles (other than the basic spelling of words, which often get changed anyhow) are the main areas where hiragana is used, hence my associating them with grammar.

As for the book, I've personally never seen them. My university's japanese business course is only 2 sessions in length, and as far as I know has its primary focus on vocal communications rather than writing.

 

[test84]

got Remeber the Kanji for learning Kanji, as recommended, cant believe how bad a book can be.

any better way to learn Kanji?

 

[Awdofgum]

I don't know if this was mentioned, but the best way to learn japanese is to Live in japan for about 2-3 years. Depends how fast you pick up.

Edit: BTW Linkiboy your inbox is full.

 

[Mangofett]

Yeah, print out kanji's on a sheet (the WHOLE SHEET for one character) and stare at it until it is burned into your eyes.

 

[Mangofett]

THAT WAS NOT AN EDIT and yes its full w/e

 

[Awdofgum]

THAT WAS NOT AN EDIT and yes its full w/e

Sorry. Well i was trying to tell you that i don't know what i could do in exchange.

 

[Retal]

I used freeware, lol.

 

[test84]

how's Kanji_Sonomama_Rakubiki_Jiten ?

 

[Jarvik7]

You think Remembering the Kanji is bad? It is an awesome book with a huge following and community on the internet. The only thing it requires is DEDICATION, since the Kanji are ordered in the most efficient manner for memorizing, not in the order of difficulty or frequency. So go at it for 30 minutes to an hour per day for a few months and you'll have all the jouyou Kanji under your belt. It's really not that hard. I've never heard of anyone actually learning all jouyou Kanji from a different book.

One of the major communities is kanji.koohii.com if you're willing to give it another chance.

 

[test84]

since there are some J people back here, I would like to ask them best way to learn Kanjis.
I know most of Hiragana and have no problem at Katakana, but i started Kanjis at some points and each of them had different reading and meaning!
Is there anyway to categorize all 6 or 7 of their reading and meaning? all of them are necessary?

plz state they ways that worked for you, not the ones that you heard that r good.

thnx.

 

[kikuchiyo]

Kanji sonomaamaa is no help to you if you aren't already reading. It's pretty much just a dictionary (it has some other features, but I only started using it when I took Level 4 Japanese and was reading real articles and such with kanji I didn't know). Plus it takes stroke order into account when it looks up kanji, so you should have some idea how to write kanji you don't know.

Far more helpful for beginner:s is a Japanese cellphone with a camera text reader. My latest phone has that - you can take pictures of the kanji and then look it up via the phone's dictionary. au's w52ca has that feature (and the model above it), which is the phone I have.

You're not going to learn real Japanese from manga or anime (the only exceptions that come to mind are azumanga daiou). They use too many weird words that don't actually come up in conversation. You need a text book. As mentioned already in this thread, Genki is awesome (written by my professsors at Kansai Gaidai). You need a native speaker. Beginner's will be fine with anyone with a high school eduacation, but after a year or two you will need some one who actually knows the ins and outs of the language.

Kanji can carry several different pronunciations and readings (usually at least a Chinese and Japanese reading - the Japanese reading is usually for simpler words and Chinese for compounds - tomo, in tomodachi, for example, is the yuu in yuujin, which is considered a more educated word - it's like Latin and German origin words in English). The only recourse is to study and have a book and teacher that will tell you the most common readings. Again, Genki has an excellent kanji section.

 

[kikuchiyo]

I forgot about it, but if there is ANYWAY you can get your hands on Irasshai, a Georgia public television program, do it. It starts off with the basics, including kana, and makes them easy to remember. Between my friends and that I learned most of Japanese 101 before I took the class.

As for written Japanese, the uses of the two kana syallabaries and kanji, it really depends on the writer. Hiragana tends to be used for grammar, but is often used in other situations - there are a few words with no kanji (though less then you might think - most words usually have a kanji counterpart - tabako is usually spelled out these days, but there is kanji. Ditto BeiKoku for America, though America is most usually spelled out in katakana). Some people use hirgana more, either because they don't know the kanji (so writing in large amounts of hiragana looks uneducated), to make it easier for foreigners to read, or because it seems more girly (hiragana, as a curvy writing is considered less masculine that katakana). Some girls, especially don't have kanji for their given names and so use hiragana.

Kanji tends to be used for ideas - nouns, verbs, and adjectives. Especially for the latter two they have some hiragana at the end to denote their function.

Katakana is used for foreign words, yes, but also in a few other circumstances. Often, in advertisments and CMs katakana will be used for normal words, as it is considered more attention getting. Japanese people will also often write katakana in long sentences with a lot of hiragana to break up different words (you can often see this in games and novels). The same word may be written in hiragana a few lines down. Onomanpetia is also often, but not always, written in katakana. Finally katakana can also act as an "idea" like kanji - the verb saboru, for example, comes from sabotage and the sabo are often written in katakana and the ru in hiragana (incidentally, the only meaning it carries in Japanese is to skip work or class). Katakana is usually also used to denote the onyomi, or Chinese reading of a kanji in dictionaries.

 

[test84]

found this program http://nds.zoelen.net/
gonna try it and see how good it is, its for learning Kana, hope it was for Kanji too.

 

[T-hug]

Hey test that url is broken!

 

[test84]

shoot, i downloaded about 694kb of 1.3mg and then the site went down!
sheat! : |
the one in download section of GBAtemp is kinda old, but i'm getting it.

i was actually thinking of making a thread for Kanji and review/suggest the commercials and homebrews made for this purpose.

and last but not least, i wanna thank kikuchiyo for his/her precious time and effort, i have to read ur comments more times and i'll answer to them.

edit: here has it http://www.dev-fr.org/index.php/topic,1252.0.html
but the problem is that since i have a slot-2 device, i think i'll need its SuperCard version.

its strange that its 1.2 is 1.5mg and its 1.27 is 3.9 mg!

it seems to be a good program, wish there was same thing for Kanji, i found one commercial game for Kanji but it needed that you know japanese at some level. does anyone knows good Kanji homebrew/commercial? maybe i'll start its topic today.

edit : the link provided has all the .NDS , .SC.NDS and .GBA of 1.27 version (final).

what is this .gba file they inculde? is it for GBA Movie Plyaer?

edit: as i gussed, i had to use the SuperCard version for my G6, but it wasnt using DLDI (is it because it used PALIB?).
and in 10seconds that i messed with it, i didnt get what i should do. will update.

 

[Jarvik7]

You need a text book. As mentioned already in this thread, Genki is awesome (written by my professsors at Kansai Gaidai).

Haw, I was also at Kansai Gaidai until last may. Level 5 R&W/Speaking.

 

[Raisingod]

You need a text book. As mentioned already in this thread, Genki is awesome (written by my professsors at Kansai Gaidai).

Mina no Nihon Go is also very nice . Though both set would only get you to JLPT level 3 . after that you need to start working hard with readings, grammer dictionaris and newspapaers ( a must for JLPT1 and in the last years it start to move into JLPT 2 )

 

[Jarvik7]

Good point with the readings, however you should really start trying to use what you study from the very beginning. Children's books etc are suitable for a beginner.

And for the love of god don't rely on JUST manga. You'll end up speaking like an unintelligible freak. Manga dialogue is NOT natural speech so use it only for reading comprehension. The same applies to listening to dialogue (either written, in a book, or a real speaking partner) of the opposite gender. You don't want to be a girly talking man or a manish woman.

 

[test84]

plz provide stuff that i can get their pdfs or are available at Japan's embassy.
they dont have children books there and i couldnt find those on PDFs.

 

[Jarvik7]

The one time I went to the Japanese embassy here they had plenty of children's reading materials in the waiting room, but I doubt they'd like people taking it home. There is always Amazon.jp etc. If you live near one of the few Bookoff stores in North America, that is a jackpot. Tons of used Japanese books at cheap prices.

I studied Japanese on the side before majoring in it, so by the time I started reading for practice/enjoyment I was beyond children's material (which I now find annoying due to lack of kanji). Currently I use Japanese videogames (my R4 has no english games on it), Japanese websites & social networking sites (mixi), and correspondence with Japanese people for reading & writing practice. It's not really enough, but I don't have the time required to start reading novels (in English OR Japanese).