Any black, gay or trans character post-2010 that is actually good?

City

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I was having a conversation with a friend and we were talking about movies and books until, out of nowhere, she says that there aren't any black/gay/trans characters anywhere that are well written and/or interesting.

I told her wtf she was smoking and mentioned the surgeon from Scrubs and Will and the other guy from Will & Grace (though I couldn't recall any trans character). She told me that they didn't count because they didn't come out post-2010.

Can you please help me? I want to see her smug face crumble.
 

duwen

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Maximumbeans

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Off the top of my head:

- Killmonger from Black Panther
- Pretty much half of the cast of Orange is the New Black — some of the most complex, pained, and magnificently acted Black, gay, and trans characters to grace TV, in my opinion. Poussey Washington, Suzanne Warren, Tasha Jefferson, Sophia Burset (a trans person playing a trans character), Cindy Hayes. All fantastic characters with fantastic actors.
- Morgan from The Walking Dead (started 2010 but I'd count that because his character reoccurs and develops beyond 2010)
- Shadowhunters, while generally full of shitty writing and hammy acting, has two very good gay characters in Alec and Magnus.
- Stranger Things has Lucas, Robin, and probably Will given the subtleties of his 'not fitting in' and suppressing something in the last season.

There are so, so many. Your friend is a moron. Sorry.
 

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Off the top of my head:

- Killmonger from Black Panther
- Pretty much half of the cast of Orange is the New Black — some of the most complex, pained, and magnificently acted Black, gay, and trans characters to grace TV, in my opinion. Poussey Washington, Suzanne Warren, Tasha Jefferson, Sophia Burset (a trans person playing a trans character), Cindy Hayes. All fantastic characters with fantastic actors.
- Morgan from The Walking Dead (started 2010 but I'd count that because his character reoccurs and develops beyond 2010)
- Shadowhunters, while generally full of shitty writing and hammy acting, has two very good gay characters in Alec and Magnus.
- Stranger Things has Lucas, Robin, and probably Will given the subtleties of his 'not fitting in' and suppressing something in the last season.

There are so, so many. Your friend is a moron. Sorry.

"Orange is the new black? But that's recent" - me, thinking back when I saw the announcement and thought I should give it a watch sometimes, and that was.............12 years ago. Fuck.

And yeah she is XD

Thanks everyone!
 

Maximumbeans

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"Orange is the new black? But that's recent" - me, thinking back when I saw the announcement and thought I should give it a watch sometimes, and that was.............12 years ago. Fuck.

And yeah she is XD

Thanks everyone!
Oh my god, was it actually 12 years ago? Jesus Christ. That makes me feel weird :rofl:

Sex Education also has some excellent gay characters! Forgot to include it in the list. They're actual normal people and aren't just cardboard cut-outs of their sexuality through pop culture stereotypes. Excellent show.
 

Lostbhoy

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Depends on what the definition if "good" means. Are they good characters? Good people? Are they on the side of good? What about villians? Can they be gay or black or trans and liked?

Many people will think one character is a good character while others will not so its simply down to personal preference really and if your friend can't see any examples of the argument then they really are not looking hard enough and just trying to make a problem where isn't really one.

And since whem was being any if the above only applicable to post 2010???
 

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Depends on what the definition if "good" means. Are they good characters? Good people? Are they on the side of good? What about villians? Can they be gay or black or trans and liked?

Many people will think one character is a good character while others will not so its simply down to personal preference really and if your friend can't see any examples of the argument then they really are not looking hard enough and just trying to make a problem where isn't really one.

And since whem was being any if the above only applicable to post 2010???
These characters have to jump through so many more hoops to be considered 'good' by some people, too.
A character that might have otherwise been likeable in the eyes of conservative viewers gets ruined the second they unveil that they're gay or feel like they were born in the wrong body. The viewer feels like they've somehow been conned into something, like they've been led into a trap.
 
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Lostbhoy

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These characters have to jump through so many more hoops to be considered 'good' by some people, too.
A character that might have otherwise been likeable in the eyes of conservative viewers gets ruined the second they unveil that they're gay or feel like they were born in the wrong body. The viewer feels like they've somehow been conned into something, like they've been led into a trap.
I totally get you but I'm still not convinced it's that big an issue as I don't personally know anyone or have had that conversation/comment from anyone and besides, they'd only be conning themselves by not being open to the fact that everyone is different and they might actually learn a few things and develop as a person. Unfortunately, no one else can control that.

It's not something I understand as straight person tho... If you think a character is cool or whatever, why would/could their sexuality ruin it? It's not like they have to go thong shopping with them now or something! If you know someone like that, you should tell them that their attitude is gay and watch them have a mental breakdown in front of you! They will not know how to handle it!!!
 

FAST6191

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Depends on what the definition if "good" means. Are they good characters? Good people? Are they on the side of good? What about villians? Can they be gay or black or trans and liked?

Many people will think one character is a good character while others will not so its simply down to personal preference really and if your friend can't see any examples of the argument then they really are not looking hard enough and just trying to make a problem where isn't really one.

And since whem was being any if the above only applicable to post 2010???
If acting in good faith I would assume good means character that is properly established, has flaws, has quirks and it goes together to make something worth watching.

2010 in some ways is an arbitrary cut off but in others it is a reasonable point to pick in the "muh representation" push wherein some argued* that you merely needed to have ["minority" traits] on screen and that was valuable in and of itself, with some particularly special brand of crazies going one further and proclaiming that said traits bearer having negative traits was in and of itself a bad thing which usually makes for them being a Mary Sue/Gary Stu, and super crazies further still and wanting actors that were said same to the ones to play it (because actor was not a known concept) and writers also needed to be to even stand a hope of writing them but those were generally minor enough to ignore if we are considering entertainment as a whole (though the Mary Sue types were enough to trouble some otherwise promising things. Also while fantasy and sci fi have long done reflections of current space year stuff in their fantasy world to great effect then there were a lot of super ham fisted takes on it, never mind those that also tried to do things like proclaim orcs = racist because coded some such).

*various awards shows, which in turn many producers of such things play to, also mandating that your cast, crew or some such have certain percentages of [traits] to be considered. Various investment groups also mandating things here (see ESG investment) but that is more of a company thing than pure entertainment.

Personally I would go with if you know something about the character it is because it is relevant to the story and character. Anything that is not relevant to that is wasting my time and that is a cardinal sin in story telling, even more so in film and TV when you are variously limited for time and pacing becomes even more important -- you have 40 minutes in a TV episode, taking 30 seconds to show two characters (possibly one new to the episode or minor of minor background character) with matching genitals smooching when you could be establishing your big action scene, exploring that bit more of the mystery (some of which would have been cut -- average TV show having 20-30 minutes cut for time if some things I have seen are anything to go by), unpacking more of the mystery of the main character/setting.

More generally

That for me is a master class in character outlining if nothing else and thus why you want to have it all feeding back into itself. You can tell me an interesting story about anything, [traits] (positives, negatives and interesting things falling from them) very much included within that (and amusingly for this thread most of my examples of such are probably going to be pre 2010, but that is also because that is mostly where I stopped watching films and TV in favour of internet and non fiction) and can be both minor elements, inversions** and focal points of the story. I also watch stories to show me strange new worlds, things I don't know and characters with interesting approaches to the world solving issues in ways I might appreciate as novel or effective despite not being me.
Said character also extends to world building -- a lot of things are based on history, extant religions, biology... and if your magic world has no shared history, religions or customs and maybe some alien biology to boot then why it parallels the world according to some L.A. dwelling hack writer that believed their teachers when they were told everything is all oppression, all the time (despite stats saying otherwise) then you get a bad work.

**not every black guy in the US grew up in the ghetto, ghettos are also cultures in and of themselves, ones where if you don't know the history, lingo, social mores, cues and more you might find yourself at a strong disadvantage in interactions. Having the token black guy on your team not know them can be source of amusement, two different worlds colliding and more besides. Sadly most of the time we might get a token race swap if doing an adaptation and that is not even played to.
 
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Lostbhoy

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Interesting video that @FAST6191, very Sherlock Holmes in it's form of deducing a character from their appearance ... Is Sgt Calhoun the epic meal time guy???

I agree with your point about interesting stories however different people find different things interesting and I get that as much as a detail or story arc can pull someones interest, the same can be said of the opposite. I must actually correct my earlier comment regarding not having this conversation with anyone.... I forced an old work mate to watch Eddie Izzard, an outstanding comedian and story teller imo who is trans, as they said they didn't like they way they dressed but of course after watching Eddie do her routine they were in stitches and became a fan so yeah, the messed up judgment opinion is definitely there and education is always key!

I can't actually think of a character in the main character/hero/universally popular sense or in the general sense of a character exploration and development story, which of course can be a tremendously interesting topic in itself when handled properly, that disagrees with the comment in the op, I do find myself veering towards the opinion of it now but I'm too old for post 2010 stuff also :shy:
 

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I don't know if he is the same guy. The character unpicked in the video is from a web/streaming series (it was made before youtube adverts and ebegging platforms could sustain scripted and costume shows like they can today) called video game high school which I had only seen as being on in the background while I was fixing someone's computer rather than sat down to watch (others reading you don't need to have seen it to get lots from that video).


Is he trans? Thought he just liked to dress up in female clothes. Either way though he is hilarious. Particularly like his French language stuff. That is also somewhat aside from the general premise of the thread as I took it of fiction characters or entertainment works.

Different people can like different things but simply inserting trait in a throwaway scene (as in cut it and nothing gets lost from the story, and maybe pacing improves if it is) or stunt casting someone is pretty universally boring, even more so if trait ensures the character in question has no flaws and maybe only gets challenged by strawman boogeyman. Good writing on the other hand can make even things I don't care about (never cared about romance, yet Scott Pilgrim being ostensibly all about that was one of my favourite films ever) and at least not make me turn off/focus on my game when something is on.
 
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I'm a really bad judge if it comes to well written characters or good actors. I just like a character or not even if it might be a bad one. I actually get triggered by watching most new shows because the wokness just reached a limit for me. the sandman is unwatchable.

- I liked winston and couch in new girl
- tony in 13 reasons why
- that gay couple in sense8
- the bushmaster in luke cage
- bernard and maeve in westworld
- atrain in the boys
- robin in stranger things
- klaus in umbrella academy
- claire in the good doctor
- lupin
 

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