Almost All Flash Kits Blocked Permanently

[RodrigoDavy]

I feel you. Just to clarify: I wasn't trying to judge pirates or make myself sound better than them with my last post. I was just saying it's something that I don't think is really worth it anymore, at least to me.

This whole blocking thing got me thinking too, that maybe it isn't worth it playing pirate DS games on a 3ds, getting tired of this cat and mouse game and I actually like downloading some eshop stuff once in a while. But my conclusion was about buying a DS lite in the worst case and be able to run gba games as a plus

 

[jax604]

At least there is a good side in it:
The bad flashcards will stop being produced soon,
and the new flashcards that will come up from now will have a better buit-in quality.

In theory, yeah. But that doesn't mean it'll happen. We can always hope, though.

As for me, I've decided to move away from flash carts and start buying actual games. I'll still keep the one I have on hand for occasional homebrew if I find anything that truly interests me (as well as to "test" DS games I feel uncertain of before buying them), but since I'm going to start seriously collecting Nintendo games from all generations, I might as well start by actually buying DS titles and being an honest man again.

Games, and eletronic products in general here, in Brazil,
are expensive as hell, that's one of many reasons why brazilians like pirating.

The PS3 was first released for $4000
a 3DS XL is $600.

But nothing compares to car prices.
In USA you can buy a new Honda Civic for $7000.
In Brazil the Honda Civic prices start at $37000

Not sure where you got those numbers from, but a brand new Honda Civic isnt $7000 in the USA, more like $20,000-28,000 USD depending on what trim.....even tho its still cheaper than brazil.

 

[TripleSMoon]

This whole blocking thing got me thinking too, that maybe it isn't worth it playing pirate DS games on a 3ds, getting tired of this cat and mouse game and I actually like downloading some eshop stuff once in a while. But my conclusion was about buying a DS lite in the worst case and be able to run gba games as a plus

I briefly considered getting a DSLite after I found out about this for the exact reason you said, But I'd rather keep all my DS/3DS gaming on one machine, and I love my 3DSXL's giant screen. Plus I'm going to grab a backlit GBA SP soon anyway for all 3 Game Boy generations. Debating whether I want to get a flash cart for that one. I'd rather collect the actual games, but even piracy aside, Game Boy generation carts are just so much more bulky and difficult to carry around than DS carts.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

I wonder how long the R4i Gold has left before (if ever) it is left useless. Supercard at least has it's CPU on board.

Also, as a side question, R4i Gold + EZ Flash 3 in 1 is a viable combination for GBA + 3DS compatibility right?

 

[retrodoctor]

Am I the only one who thinks not many new flashcarts will come out of this? It seems like a lot of work to support a now older generation handheld. I understand some people still play their games and love them, but I just don't see companies willing to create entire new hardware for this.

 

[OrGoN3]

Goodbye Action Replay!

 

[exangel]

I wonder how long the R4i Gold has left before (if ever) it is left useless. Supercard at least has it's CPU on board.

Also, as a side question, R4i Gold + EZ Flash 3 in 1 is a viable combination for GBA + 3DS compatibility right?

Before I get down to it, ohmigodI'vetriedtorespondtothis3timesandlostmypostfromcrashesandstuff.

If you have a DS Lite or are considering getting one, yes. GoddammitIwrotesomuchelsethreetimesalready but my ultimate point was you also gain another advantage over the DStwo if having two consoles isn't an issue: dramatic battery life. Even a 3DS with Nyko PowerPak+ will get about 2-3 hours less maximum battery life than a DS Lite with a brand new OEM battery from Nintendo's parts shop using an R4i Gold 3DS. But the difference between the DS Lite with an R4i Gold 3DS (~14:10 with r4idsn.com and ~12:35 with r4ids.cn & a 3DS with a DStwo (5:40 stock and 9:35 with PowerPak+) is huge. I am going to POST this and edit my comparison data in this time. My tests were done using Snailface's DS Battery Timer homebrew.

Spoiler: Comparison Data from tests run in July

DS Lite with brand new OEM replacement battery:

• 15:55 - R4DS - 512MB MicroSD w/ Wood 1.49 --Baseline test with the original but non-updateable R4
• 14:10 - R43D - 2GB MicroSD (www.r4idsn.com) on Chronicles of Narnia firmware / Wood 1.49
• 11:45 - AK2i - 512MB MicroSD Will not be compatible with 3DS anymore but it'll still work fine on the Lite.. guess I'll leave this data in.
• 12:35 - R4i Gold 3DS - (32GB Class 10 MicroSDHC) (www.r4ids.cn) w/Wood 1.49
• 08:30 - DStwo - (4GB Class 4 MicroSDHC)

DS Lite, mint condition but several years old, battery still original:

• 13:15 - R4DS - 512MB MicroSD w/ Wood 1.49 --Baseline test with the original but non-updateable R4
• 13:15 - R4DS - 512MB MicroSD w/Wood 1.50 --Baseline test with the original but non-updateable R4 done to verify
• 12:05 - R43D - 2GB MicroSD (www.r4idsn.com) Wood 1.49
• 07:35 - DStwo - 4GB Class 4 MicroSDHC

(I don't have results for the r4ids.cn cart on this one)


1-year old 3DS with (also 1-year old) Nyko PowerPak Plus (Wireless off, minimum brightness, power-saving On, sound off)

• 09:35 - DStwo - 4GB Class 4 MicroSDHC
• 11:15 - AK2i - 8GB Class 6 MicroSDHC Will not be compatible anymore.
• 11:55 - R43D - 2GB MicroSD (www.r4idsn.com) Wood 1.49
• 12:25 - R4i Gold 3DS - 32GB Class 10 MicroSDHC (www.r4ids.cn) Wood 1.49

(I think having a higher speed class rating on the MicroSDHC may be a significant benefit, since the device theoretically spends less time doing its reads/writes.. The variations between battery life of the R4 Clones I tested are rather strange.)


1-year old 3DS with stock battery: (Wireless off, minimum brightness, power-saving On, sound off)

• 07:00 - R43D - 2GB MicroSD (www.r4idsn.com) Wood 1.49
• 05:40 - DStwo - 4GB Class 4 MicroSDHC
• 07:30 - R4i Gold 3DS - 32GB Class 10 MicroSDHC (www.r4ids.cn) Wood 1.49

For what it's worth I got a very nice refurbished DS Lite a few months ago from eBay seller waku7 with a clear case (love it!) and though it came with a great battery I still wanted to test with a brand new battery straight from Nintendo. The DS Lite from waku7 was only $70 with free shipping and I don't think they'll go very much lower than that considering what GBA SP's still go for. (Unless you can score a nice used one at a pawn shop of course!) The 3-in-1 on the other hand still runs around $20-25 I think, and you'll have to get a harder to find version if you want it to fit in a GBA SP after loading games one at a time to its NAND)



I am thinking of getting a K1 GBA (http://www.k1gbasp.c...nsole-c-28.html) but I will wait and see what people say about battery life even if it costs me more in the end.

Hopefully final edit: I plan to test DStwo's battery life on my 3DS XL & will do the same when the two Officially Authorized, Wood Compatible R4i Gold 3DS carts release their updates. I no longer own the regular 3DS systems though.

 

[mrreow]

Sad but possibly happy news in the end. It sucks that flash cards will be on their way out but that only means that the system will be more enticing for those who wish to crack it. And if it gets cracked that means CFW!

Probably still a year or more away but I can dream right?

 

[Foxi4]

It's still not 100% certain that this will block all flashcarts other than the DSTwo and a certain R4 - people are forgetting that flashcarts contain a small and slow, albeit programmable microchip. It's entirely possible that teams which do support their carts with internal firmware updates will be able to circumvent this check by feeding the 3DS false data. It's a crude solution, but it's just as possible as it was for the DSTwo - its CPU is far superior to a microcontroller, but a microcontroller can still do the same job. That said, it would require a complete re-write of the firmware, not just a header swap which was the usual routine until now.

 

[McHaggis]

It makes you wonder if Nintendo have recently hired an expert that came up with the idea, or were tipped off. I suspect that they could also block the remaining class2 flash cards permanently by finding other unique hardware differences. Take the DSTWO, for instance, which has a built-in CPU. If DS homebrew can detect and take advantage of this additional CPU, what's stopping Nintendo from running a small amount of code that does the same when a card is inserted?

The DS units are ARM and run the code on the 3/DS/i itself, whereas the DSTwo's CPU is MIPS and only reads data from it's own MicroSD, so a DS unit feeding data to the 3DS's CPU seems unlikely.

I thought that DSTwo homebrew utilized both the DS's ARM CPUs and the MIPS CPU. If what you're saying is true, the cart boots with an ARM binary but then uses the MIPS solely for running homebrew code afterwards, with the DSTwo feeding the ARM processor? Admittedly, I haven't researched it at all because I don't have a DSTwo.

 

[exangel]

It's still not 100% certain that this will block all flashcarts other than the DSTwo and a certain R4 - people are forgetting that flashcarts contain a small and slow, albeit programmable microchip. It's entirely possible that teams which do support their carts with internal firmware updates will be able to circumvent this check by feeding the 3DS false data. It's a crude solution, but it's just as possible as it was for the DSTwo - its CPU is far superior to a microcontroller, but a microcontroller can still do the same job. That said, it would require a complete re-write of the firmware, not just a header swap which was the usual routine until now.

Well, Rydian posted a list of "Class 2" carts but aside from the DStwo and the two R4s that have released video proof of their progress in developing a working update, those Class 2 carts are mostly dead teams* that may not really jump at the chance to invest the time needed to resume competition with Supercard and Wood Compatible R4s for the 3DS in the specifically-3DS-compatible flashcart market.

I'm a little confused as to what makes the DSTwo and R4i Gold capable of circumventing this block that other flashcarts apparently cannot, like the Acekard 2i.

• The DSTwo and R4i Gold are not read unless they have a MicroSD in them.
  
  Even after putting a MicroSD in the DSTwo, however, it has to be one that has the correct software on it, or you get the DSi/3DS error.
  (The R4i Gold can try to boot without the correct MicroSD.)
• The AK2i, however, can show an icon and try to boot without a MicroSD. The AK2i is using an older design where the boot data is all stored on the AK2i itself.

Normally this just means that the AK2i has a harder time updating since it's not as flexible in the updates it can take (which users have seen, since it can take a month for an update now), while other carts like the R4i Gold and DSTwo can update quicker and easier.

However if the quote is specifically talking about data on the flash cart that in some cases (like the Ak2i) is not rewriteable, then the Ak2i is likely to be permanently stuck at an older firmware.

Now, here's where things get interesting!

The below is info given to me by a different flash cart team (not supercard, I've had no contact with them), back when I was mag staff.

Flashcards can be divided to several classes according to their structure.
Class1: AK2i,Iedge, R4ids Gold(Non-3DS), R4iDSN(Non-3DS), R4I-SDHC, R4I-SDHC(3DS version), DSONEi and etc
Class2: DSTOW, ismmart, iplayer, EZVi, iPlayer, R4ids 3DS , R4iDSN 3DS and etc
Class3: iCyclo
[...]

We can say Class1 may be blocked some day in the future.

Rather foreboding, isn't it? That conversation happened last May.

If both of these pieces of info hold true, then it seems most or all of the carts in the "Class1" list might be unable to run anymore.

 

[Pong20302000]

I'm a little confused as to what makes the DSTwo and R4i Gold capable of circumventing this block that other flashcarts apparently cannot, like the Acekard 2i.

• The DSTwo and R4i Gold are not read unless they have a MicroSD in them.
  
  
  Even after putting a MicroSD in the DSTwo, however, it has to be one that has the correct software on it, or you get the DSi/3DS error.
  (The R4i Gold can try to boot without the correct MicroSD.)
• The AK2i, however, can show an icon and try to boot without a MicroSD. The AK2i is using an older design where the boot data is all stored on the AK2i itself.

Normally this just means that the AK2i has a harder time updating since it's not as flexible in the updates it can take (which users have seen, since it can take a month for an update now), while other carts like the R4i Gold and DSTwo can update quicker and easier.


However if the quote is specifically talking about data on the flash cart that in some cases (like the Ak2i) is not rewriteable, then the Ak2i is likely to be permanently stuck at an older firmware.

Now, here's where things get interesting!

The below is info given to me by a different flash cart team (not supercard, I've had no contact with them), back when I was mag staff.

Flashcards can be divided to several classes according to their structure.
Class1: AK2i,Iedge, R4ids Gold(Non-3DS), R4iDSN(Non-3DS), R4I-SDHC, R4I-SDHC(3DS version), DSONEi and etc
Class2: DSTOW, ismmart, iplayer, EZVi, iPlayer, R4ids 3DS , R4iDSN 3DS and etc
Class3: iCyclo
[...]

We can say Class1 may be blocked some day in the future.

Rather foreboding, isn't it? That conversation happened last May.

If both of these pieces of info hold true, then it seems most or all of the carts in the "Class1" list might be unable to run anymore.

Well it is very likely to be true

It would be good if we could get a complete list of all class 1 & 2
The main shame is the class 3 could most likely work if there was a DSi and a DS header update

 

[Alanturing]

has the acekard team made a announcement on this ?
yes the r4i gold is different hardware but it at least the same age as acekard 8181
as for the dstwo timing maybe the only difference for responses if were detectable.

maybe a search for new bugs to exploit is need

 

[ferret7463]

up until Nintendo did this little "update", I've been fine with the SNES and GBA Emu abilities (Energy Blazer and WOZZ is fun as hell ) of the DS2. Seeing that Nintendo is now on the "War Path" against flash cards, I hope that the Hackers speed up their attempts to bypass this "It's Still Our product" security.

 

[machmandp]

r4i-sdhc.com have a statement on their site that their card can support the new update
they have put up a video and will release the update later

 

[Rydian]

Am I the only one who thinks not many new flashcarts will come out of this? It seems like a lot of work to support a now older generation handheld. I understand some people still play their games and love them, but I just don't see companies willing to create entire new hardware for this.

I agree with this, in fact we've even seen current carts starting to slow support or just not update anymore.
http://gbatemp.net/t290097-which-flash-cart-should-i-get
Check out how small the list has gotten nowadays.. EZ-Flash Vi, iEvo/Evo, and more are missing. Unless, as Exangel posted, these teams with class2 carts jump at the chance to be viable again...

And before anybody asks why I'm not taking the "blocked" carts off the list... this news is not confirmed yet. We have one statement from one team, and I pulled some relevant info from another team. The only statement saying that the entirety of class-1 carts will forever be blocked is from me, and it's a theory based on the info from multiple separate sources. It's entirely possible the supercard team is wrong or jumped the gun with one of their dissections of the update, and/or that my theory is connecting the wrong info together.

Until then, as long as people Just Don't Fucking Update™, we can safely wait and see. Unless you were a dumbass and updated your 3DS already (in which case it's Your Own Damn Fault™) you can just sit around and wait to see if class1 carts can update or not. If they can, bam, it's proven by the existence of an update, and you can use it. If not, then you could go out and get another cart.

has the acekard team made a announcement on this ?
yes the r4i gold is different hardware but it at least the same age as acekard 8181

Actually the R4i Gold models that were release around the AK2i might be class1 as well, it's the later 3DS-branded models that seem to be class2 (the site has different update files for both). I've asked around for people that had an older-model to do some testing for me to see how they behave in booting, but I couldn't find anybody with one.

I thought that DSTwo homebrew utilized both the DS's ARM CPUs and the MIPS CPU. If what you're saying is true, the cart boots with an ARM binary but then uses the MIPS solely for running homebrew code afterwards, with the DSTwo feeding the ARM processor? Admittedly, I haven't researched it at all because I don't have a DSTwo.

The DSTwo feeds the ARM data from the MicroSD through itself to the DS unit to run while it feeds itself the MIPS data to run. As far as I know there's no sort of method for the DSTwo to fetch a MIPS-compiled binary from the DS unit, as that's normally never going to happen. Even in cases where the DS does command data to be fed right to the cart (via the ARM7 binary commanding a save), the cart takes care of that, as can be seen from the pokemon carts with IR (as they have an extra control chip to switch a pin used between IR and save data), and as can be seen from flash carts, who get the "save this shit" command from the DS and instead do their own thing to record the data on the MicroSD.

 

[jalaneme]

Goodbye Action Replay!

I emailed datel regrading this firmware update but who knows if they will reply or release a update to resolve this problem, stupid fking nintendo, they really annoy me sometimes and this is why I hate current gen gaming, update firmware and patches, all current game consoles do it and you can't get away from it, especially game installs when you want to play a quick game of say for example ridge racer, you are first confronted with a 20 minute game install then a 1000gb patch (don't quote me on this part, I was being sarcastic) and you sit there and wondered why you bothered in the first place and just get out the ps1 disc and play that instead.

The moral of the story is, no matter how new and current your consoles are we are always going to get fed up of it and go back to older stuff time and time again...

 

[tranfeer]

I wonder how long the R4i Gold has left before (if ever) it is left useless. Supercard at least has it's CPU on board.

Also, as a side question, R4i Gold + EZ Flash 3 in 1 is a viable combination for GBA + 3DS compatibility right?

Do not worry about r4i gold 3ds(www.r4ids.cn). It may be one year , two year or more, .
In a word, it will survive to the end of flashcards which can support ds roms on 3DS.
Besides, r4i gold 3ds has also a built-in cpu in the main controller.

 

[ChaosHydrA]

Well from what I've been reading it's that the acekard2i is sort of obsolete now

I'm just wondering is there a way to get to 4.3 via a certain game? or does it not matter since you wont be able to use the shop and its other functions with atleast 4.4.0-10 at this point?. I still have the default 3DXL firmware at 3.0.6 something and managed to get the acekard2i to run DS games but I have 7 3DS games on my shelf I sorta fear to put in at this point. Is the Acekard2i 4.2 firmware enough to run Mario 3D Land or Kid Icarus for example?. I doubt I can go out and buy any of the new games like the new mario/KH3D though ?

 

[boombox]

That's a shame, I'm glad I have a Supercard DSTWO..as I've updated >____<
But it auto-updated for some reason?