About today’s Florida shooting

[TotalInsanity4]

Cameras would also be necessary.

Yeah... I wish I could tell you that that would work, but http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5045479/Walmart-shoppers-drew-handguns-shooting.html

 

[ThisIsDaAccount]

I'm not saying more guns is safe but I do think if they were present in some way then it will be less likely to happen.

In this case, there actually were guns present, since the school has a regular police officer on duty dsily. For some reason, they didn't stop the student that they had previously expelled cuz they thought he might bring a gun to school.

Having guns on the scene in the hands of the good guys will work sometimes, this is unfortunately not one of those times.

 

[Deleted User]

Wait wait wait. You're putting words in my mouth now? Now where in ANY of my posts did I say more guns are better? Oh, right, I didn't. I also only stated a fact about human nature. Good job on getting bent out of shape on that though.

Oh shoot, get it? Pun intended. Mistakened you for another

 

[Kioku]

That's kinda the problem though, there are already like 20 guns on the street for every loser in America. The "good guy with a gun" theory has failed us probably a thousand times over the last decade. Escalation as a response just moves society backwards to the Wild West, and shooting casualties rise instead of falling.

We've already regressed so far. Why not go back to the days where issues were sorted physically... I kid, I kid.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Oh shoot, get it? Pun intended. Mistakened you for another

Oh, my bad. Haha. Sorry!

 

[Deleted User]

Hmm, well I guess you got me there. But, there seems to be a high correlation between states/countries owning guns and the amount of homocides.
View attachment 114281View attachment 114282

Still @Memoir my previous point stands. I do not believe it’s just the “people’s” fault.

 

[WiiUBricker]

The only downside to a society like that is that the weaker people in the population ... handicapped, elderly, females, etc., would have no way of defending themselves against criminal thuggery, burglaries, rapists.

There are non-deadly weapons like tasers. You don’t have to resort to a killing machine every time you need to defend yourself. Where is this society headed if it’s always kill or be killed? Plus those people who own guns have responsibility to not enable access to the gun to any other person. It wouldn’t shock me if the suspect stole his gun from his father.

 

[Kioku]

Still @Memoir my point stands. I do not believe it’s just the “people’s” fault.

It's a conscious choice. You can't blame the tool for the user. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Deleted User]

It's a conscious choice. You can't blame the tool for the user. Doesn't make sense.

I understand your point philosophically, but where’s your evidence? Are guns not the problem?

 

[Navonod]

That's kinda the problem though, there are already like 20 guns on the street for every loser in America. The "good guy with a gun" theory has failed us probably a thousand times over the last decade. Escalation as a response just moves society backwards to the Wild West.

I'm just talking about schools here. There are efforts to control the black markets for guns but criminals are always finding other ways. This whole arguement is pointless because the "what ifs" people keep bringing up. There is no perfect way to keep guns away from people willing to use them but if we just try and give schools some good security and then work out the kinks from there then we could flesh it out.

 

[ThisIsDaAccount]

It's a conscious choice. You can't blame the tool for the user. Doesn't make sense.

You can't blame the tool for the user but the tool can make things easier for the user. If this shooter had access to a tank, it wouldn't hsve been the tank's fault that he's a murderer. However, remove the tank from the equation and less people die. Same with the AR-15 he used

 

[Kioku]

I understand your point philosophically, but where’s your evidence? Are guns not the problem?

Refer to prior comments. If guns didn't exist we'd have other weapons. Do you think we always fought with a firearm? We are a murderous breed, that evidence is everywhere. A gun isn't the problem.

 

[WiiUBricker]

Try to justify the fact that gun laws don't make the problem better. If someone wants to kill, they will. Talking about taking away a form of defense due to a crudely ignorant stance is fuel for the fire. The issue isn't "guns". Guns don't kill people. People kill people. "b-b-but they'll have to use a different weapon".. They'll still be using a fucking weapon. Even one life would be all it takes to fulfill his twisted desires. He's a mental case that went ignored for way too long.

Of course the easiest thing to blame is the non-issue. That's all people look at. That'll be the major point. "Why did he have a gun and how did he get it?" Not "How did he become so mentally ill and what can we do to help those in trouble?"

Then what do you prefer, being assaulted by someone with a gun or a knife? How are your chances of surviving if you’re assaulted by someone with a gun versus a knife?

 

[Flame]

Refer to prior comments. If guns didn't exist we'd have other weapons. Do you think we always fought with a firearm?

Guns makes it millions times easier to go on a mass killing tho.

 

[ThisIsDaAccount]

I'm just talking about schools here. There are efforts to control the black markets for guns but criminals are always finding other ways. This whole arguement is pointless because the "what ifs" people keep bringing up. There is no perfect way to keep guns away from people willing to use them but if we just try and give schools some good security and then work out the kinks from there then we could flesh it out.

The school has security, good security in fact. It's in a gated community and has an active duty cop whenever it's open. Good security isn't a catch all, as seen in this case.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

It's a conscious choice. You can't blame the tool for the user. Doesn't make sense.

You can't blame the tool, that much is obvious, but you can reduce the amount of potential damage done by limiting the tool available

 

[Kioku]

Guns makes it millions times easier to go on a mass killing tho.

So do bombs... And torches... And vehicles... We can go on all day. My point still stands.

 

[Navonod]

The school has security, good security in fact. It's in a gated community and has an active duty cop whenever it's open. Good security isn't a catch all, as seen in this case.

It's not good security if they let a teenager with a gun kill 17 other students.

 

[Kioku]

You can't blame the tool, that much is obvious, but you can reduce the amount of potential damage done by limiting the tool available

Refer to comment below yours.

The number could have been much worse had he driven a car into the kids as they left school. Think logically.

 

[Deleted User]

Refer to prior comments. If guns didn't exist we'd have other weapons. Do you think we always fought with a firearm? We are a murderous breed, that evidence is everywhere. A gun isn't the problem.

Hmm, this is from 2013, probably death has gone up - but it seems that more deaths occur from gun. It also seems much easier to Kill with a semi automatic.

About 5,000 for other weapons and 12,000 for guns. I imagine the toll is somewhat similar today

 

[Kioku]

Hmm, this is from 2013, probably death has gone up - but it seems that more deaths occur from gun. It also seems much easier to Kill with a semi automatic
View attachment 114283

You're attached to the "gun". You refuse to see the big picture. Even if it didn't exist, other weapons do.