Sony charged publishers a royalty on cross-play games if it made more money on other platforms

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As the court case between Apple and Epic Games rages on, more and more documents revealing the inner workings of these companies are being released. Today, Epic disclosed emails with Sony during their negotiations to enable cross-play in Fortnite back in 2018. For those who don't remember, Sony was the one holdout to freely enable cross-play between the major consoles, PC and mobile platforms, citing security concerns and assertions that these games were best on Playstation. Finally, in September of 2018, they enabled cross-play on Fortnite, calling the program an "open beta," before fully opening it up over a year later, in October of 2019.

Now, thanks to court documents compiled by The Verge, we know exactly how set against cross-play Sony was. In an email exchange between Joe Kreiner, Epic’s vice president of business development, and Gio Corsi, Sony’s senior director of developer relations, we can see Epic's offer to Sony for enabling cross-play. Epic would offer data that Sony had requested, plus other marketing data, offer exclusive skins to Playstation Plus subscribers, would brand their E3 presence with Sony, and offers to go out of their way to let Sony "look like heroes" when it comes to the cross-play announcement. They also mention that Sony's companywide license for Unreal Engine 4 would be expiring in about a year from then, and offer to extend it as that license has "some of the best terms we've ever offered for UE4." There's even an offer to spitball further ideas, and suggest that perhaps Epic could commit to a game at the launch of the next iteration of PSVR. Sony didn't agree, shooting back that "many companies are exploring this idea and not a single one can explain how cross-console play improves the PlayStation business."

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Sony did eventually agree though, after establishing a revenue sharing system that would see it compensated if there are more players using PSN to access a game than there are paying for in-game purchases through Playstation. Essentially, since Sony takes a 30% cut on all in-game purchases made through PSN, it isn't worth it to them allow PSN's infrastructure to support a game when the paying players are making their purchases through other platforms, so Sony would make the game publishers pay the difference. The graphic below lays out the exact detail of its revenue sharing:

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While it's unclear if Sony is still enforcing this policy, Epic CEO Tim Sweeney spoke on the matter and made no mention that the policy had ended. He also stated that Sony was the only platform holder with this stipulation and that Epic had to agree to these terms to get cross-play enabled on Fortnite.

:arrow: Source (courtesy of The Verge)
 

wormdood

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He just gave an example of something worse (Apple), and you, the gamer, still have Fortnite.
but at what cost epic already proved with the stunt that got them booted from apple/google that they would be willing to charge less for in-app purchases if they didn't have to shell out large percentages of the profits
 

tabzer

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but at what cost epic already proved with the stunt that got them booted from apple/google that they would be willing to charge less for in-app purchases if they didn't have to shell out large percentages of the profits

So... cheaper in game purchases for you?
 
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There is not a second when I think Epic would ever do a better Business deal in Sony's position.
It's hilarious that anyone in their Marketing Team thinks all this information is going to endear them into Gamer's hearts.

Someone bigger than you does exactly what you aspire to do, and you're whining because it's not you.
Cry me a river.
 

tech3475

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I wont be surprised if Epic targets games consoles if they win against Apple.

Although I wonder how the console makers would react, particularly considering the razor and blade model typically used if it affects their income.
 

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it's toxic because no other gaming platform forces restrictions like this it's sony using player base as leverage and we the gamer get shafted as the result

just a correction here epic uses amazons servers for fortnite

Fair enough, but they pay amazon for the use of the servers. While you think it's toxic that epic pay for the use of Sony servers.

You could argue that Sony shouldn't limit the game play to their own servers, but that isn't toxic.

If you want consoles then they need to generate enough revenue, if anything your suggestion is toxic.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I wont be surprised if Epic targets games consoles if they win against Apple.

Although I wonder how the console makers would react, particularly considering the razor and blade model typically used if it affects their income.

The argument against Apple is different to the argument against the console manufacturers.

But yeah if Sony can't make the money this way, they'll have to charge higher prices elsewhere. Which will undoubtedly mean that people abandon consoles for PC's.
 
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xdarkx

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First we learn about how Epic buying exclusive is costing them more money than their own Epic Game Store is making, now this? :rofl: I'm more curious as to where this Apple-Epic lawsuit will lead to.

Also, don't think anyone believed Sony's BS on cross-play would lead to security concern when they first said it. Screw Sony and their stupid policy.
 
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b3ats

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Curious that Sony taking a 30% PSN cut in Epic’s eyes is seemingly absolutely fine and Epic was prepared to offer them further incentives for cross-play, yet Apple’s 30% App Store cut is abhorrent.
 

ombus

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I honestly cant believe how when i read something about epic doing things that benefits others people call them shit or whatever.. is like people like to pay more or get less stuff.. gamers will be gamers..
 

tabzer

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I honestly cant believe how when i read something about epic doing things that benefits others people call them shit or whatever.. is like people like to pay more or get less stuff.. gamers will be gamers..

TBF, nobody is calling them shit for doing something that could potentially benefit gamers. But if they do something that could potentially benefit gamers, please let me know.
 
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FAST6191

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I am personally surprised to see a press outlet actually do something resembling journalism, though I suppose they bill themselves as tech more than gaming.

Anyway always nice to see the detail and character of deals too. I know they get made but normally it is leaks, pieced together info years after the fact, pieced together from financials or other things that allow us to see any of it. If it is going to be this fun I might have to pay more attention to this case.

How is it toxic? Epic covers Sony costs if payments are going through Epic servers, but game play is going through Sony servers.
I suppose the bigger question for me is why are Sony trying to compel play through their servers beyond basic authentication which is basically free/happens anyway as part of their normal offerings. Probably could even have got some exclusive skins, stats or whatever if they really wanted too.
Sure "we like control and the option to line our pockets*" is going to be it, if it was a small indie I guess they would worry about sustainability (though I look at server lifetimes/lengths before shutdown** for various games of theirs and EA's and such during the PS3 era and that would hardly speak to them going for the long term) but as this is Epic then I imagine they can assume something here.

*I suppose there is the generally don't make your own competition type thing to contemplate.

**I would remind people at this point you can still spin up a server for any number of 90s PC games as the server code was made available as part of it all, but as we can't even get people to not pay for online play I think that is probably a lost battle.
 
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Moon164

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Wow, this is horrible, these attitudes are making me move away from Sony more and more, I hope it will change your attitudes in the future especially in relation to crossplay and crossave, I love playing on PS4 but being the only version without crossplay or crossave it takes me a long way to play such a game on PS4 because I am deprived of playing with my friends from other platforms or continuing my progress from one platform to another, until today I expect crossave on Genshin Impact and Paladins on PS4, but apparently this will not arrive so early and only regret remains to have chosen to play these games on the Sony platform.
 

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From the e-mails, sony were very worried about their image on the player's eyes, but was not caring at all for the player's enjoyment
Now Sony for me is the same as Microsoft, Google or Amazon: they are huge corporations trying to get money on gaming industry and don't care about making the industry any better.

Out of my mind I remember those examples:

- Heavy DRM measures on PS4, despite joking about Microsoft attempt to implement their DRM. (The battery thing)

- Right before the release of Street Fighter V, capcom answer for people asking for multi-plat release was "go buy a PS4".

- No Man's Sky was rushed by Sony and the game got destroyed. Sony executives hated to issue refunds, even calling players "thieves". But this last year when Cyberpunk was rushed and destroyed, Sony played the "good guys" and bashed CDPR very hard both with administrative measures and PR statements.

- No backward compatibility on PS5 beyond a set list of PS4 titles. No backward compatibility at all on PS4 itself.

- Proprietary memory for PSVita and PS5, in both cases arguing that is a engineering measured (and it is not).

Any of those piece of news means nothing big by itself, but things gathered start to have some meaning.
 

MikaDubbz

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Can't say I'm shocked given how reluctant Sony was to embrace cross-play to begin with while Microsoft and Nintendo were happily embracing the feature without them.
 
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ombus

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TBF, nobody is calling them shit for doing something that could potentially benefit gamers. But if they do something that could potentially benefit gamers, please let me know.

Trying to give more money to developers by getting less cut on their store.
Fighting with apple for them and others to be allowed to have their own payment method without apple in the middle.. thus making things cheaper.
Giving free good games for free...

Dunno.. i think those are good things.
 
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VartioArtel

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This? This move by Sony AND the move by Epic? This is what a Monopoly looks like folks. This is morally bankrupt business practices. Epic could afford to offer so much and spread so much shit in a hidden deal we probably wouldn't know about unless this case occurred. Pushing Sony as "heroes" and all that, this is no different than gaming propaganda, which is all epic's good at.

As for Sony? Demanding free money because of different platforms purchases and only getting the deal because they are that big a name platform? That's also disgusting business practices. This is the Real "Apple Games" here. That they went after Apple who only requires a 30% cut of app-related purchases is literal small time compared to, you guessed it, Sony demanding 30% and Royalties based on other platforms, shows just how legitimate this case really is.

Lemme prose that again for those who don't get it:

Apple gets: 30% cut of all third party iPhone Store purchases including micros.

Sony gets: 30% cut of all third party PSN store purchases, including micros. Royalties based on purchases done on other platforms/payment platforms because that's 'not lucrative enough'.

Apple gets sued.
Sony doesn't.

Anyone who thinks Epic is the good guy is daft in the head. Apple sure as hell ain't a good guy, but in this case Epic literally had planned for this lawsuit down to a lawsuit draft and propaganda video long before the first shot was ever publicly fired. Epic came into this planned for a Propaganda war, and their victory is not good for any 'walled garden' - including real life stores as it will eventually reach out there.
 

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