• Friendly reminder: The politics section is a place where a lot of differing opinions are raised. You may not like what you read here but it is someone's opinion. As long as the debate is respectful you are free to debate freely. Also, the views and opinions expressed by forum members may not necessarily reflect those of GBAtemp. Messages that the staff consider offensive or inflammatory may be removed in line with existing forum terms and conditions.

Can someone explain to me the importance of Pride parades.

Status
Not open for further replies.

osm70

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
1,243
Trophies
1
XP
2,732
Country
Czech Republic
[1] In a nutshell, there wouldn't be progress on LGBT rights if LGBT individuals were invisible.

[2] Everyday is straight pride.

[3] This statement is why Pride needs to exist. You're basically saying, "I'm okay with people doing whatever they want as long as it's in the closet." It's a homophobic denial of LGBT identity.

[4] You don't feel like it needs to be because you are straight, and straight is the default assumption.

[5] Can you imagine saying the same thing about race? "Stop acting so black. Everything doesn't have to be about your race. Kinda more like an obsession, isn't it?"

1. LGBT is not invisible. We all know LGBT people exist.

2. It is? I haven't noticed.

3. So, what if someone is basically saying this: "I don't care if you are gay. I don't want to hear it. I also don't care if you are straight. I don't want to hear it either. Basically, don't tell me you fell in love (with anyone) because I do not care"? What kind of a person would that make me?

4. Default assumption? When I see someone I don't know, I don't "assume" any sexualities to them. What their sexuality might be never crosses my mind.

5. Yes. I can imagine it.
 

mikefor20

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
1,921
Trophies
2
Location
Mushroom Kingdom ( o Y o )
XP
3,811
Country
United States
We're here we're queer get used to it? What about the phrase I don't give a fuck, go fuck yourself and leave me the hell alone? Isn't that the original American Mantra right there? Isn't that what everybody really wants is to be left alone? The American dream? Live and Let Live? Isn't that what the whole argument was in the first place is that you have a right to do whatever you want with two consenting adults? And to leave you the hell alone about it? But that's not good enough and now you have to be in every show? Every movie? Do you honestly believe that that's equal representation or do you want more rights? Do you want more representation? What percentage of the population is gay? Is it enough to justify exposure in everything and everywhere? I'm part Portuguese but You don't see Portuguese people on TV much. And it's not enough to have Portuguese actors and actresses, they have to identify as Portuguese ans fly a flag and participate in Portuguese marches or I'm not happy. Where's my exposure? Where does it end? Everybody needs to shut the fuck up and leave everybody else alone about it that's where it needs to end. You really don't have a right to exposure or to be included. Selfish cry baby stuff
 

Heichart

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
125
Trophies
1
Age
35
Location
Burajiru
Website
www.gbatemp.net
XP
1,170
Country
Brazil
We're here we're queer get used to it? What about the phrase I don't give a fuck, go fuck yourself and leave me the hell alone? Isn't that the original American Mantra right there? Isn't that what everybody really wants is to be left alone? The American dream? Live and Let Live? Isn't that what the whole argument was in the first place is that you have a right to do whatever you want with two consenting adults? And to leave you the hell alone about it? But that's not good enough and now you have to be in every show? Every movie? Do you honestly believe that that's equal representation or do you want more rights? Do you want more representation? What percentage of the population is gay? Is it enough to justify exposure in everything and everywhere? I'm part Portuguese but You don't see Portuguese people on TV much. And it's not enough to have Portuguese actors and actresses, they have to identify as Portuguese ans fly a flag and participate in Portuguese marches or I'm not happy. Where's my exposure? Where does it end? Everybody needs to shut the fuck up and leave everybody else alone about it that's where it needs to end. You really don't have a right to exposure or to be included. Selfish cry baby stuff

You are calling someone selfish cry baby while being a selfish cry baby. Think about it.
 

Glyptofane

Castaway
Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
1,760
Trophies
2
XP
2,932
Country
United States
I think once upon a time pride festivals served a point, but the way they have evolved into flaunting sexual fetishes makes me wonder if this is how most LGBT people want to be viewed or if maybe just maybe they want to live like just about anyone else.
They might gain support if they could be seen as behaving like normal people. As it is, they push too hard, too fast and appear to be losing support.

https://www.richmond.com/sports/ap/...cle_d4533f6d-568c-564b-9650-95746ed48671.html
 

mikefor20

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
1,921
Trophies
2
Location
Mushroom Kingdom ( o Y o )
XP
3,811
Country
United States
Saying leave me alone isn't selfish. That's a true right. Saying watch what I do and applaud me me even though you don't care to see it in the first place is selfish. Get used to it. That's a phrase that gets yelled at people constantly when they are being forced to do something they don't want to do. You know they used to tell the gay guys to get used to having sex with women. Just saying
 
Last edited by mikefor20,

AmandaRose

Do what I do. Hold tight and pretend it’s a plan
Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Messages
10,199
Trophies
1
Location
Glasgow
Website
www.rockstarnorth.com
XP
16,179
Country
United Kingdom
But that's not good enough and now you have to be in every show? Every movie? Do you honestly believe that that's equal representation or do you want more rights?
As most people on this site know I'm a transgender woman from Scotland. Let's look at how many trans actors or characters are on British TV. There is a grand total of 1 trans actress on British TV the Scottish actress Annie Wallace who plays the trans character of Sally St Claire in the soap Hollyoaks. And another trans character in the soap Emmerdale that is played by a cis woman.

Yes the gay community is better represented but still it's something like 1 in every 30 charecters are gay. To say the lgbt community is taking over tv is simply laughable when people use it against British TV programmes.

Now I have no idea what happens on TV in America but I would be genuinely interested to hear how many trans actors and actresses are on American TV.
 
Last edited by AmandaRose,

mikefor20

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
1,921
Trophies
2
Location
Mushroom Kingdom ( o Y o )
XP
3,811
Country
United States
According to statistics not even one in 30 Americans is gay. So why do they deserve one in 30 representation on TV? Why is not having one in 30 on TV even an issue if you're 4% of the population or 10% of the population?


Now we are getting derailed though. Back to the parade. Self-serving spectacle that has lost any true meaning. Sorry to tell you. It's a commercial thing now. Just like everything else in this country. And it's annoying as hell. If you live anywhere near the city you'd agree. It's at least inconvenient. Even if you like the parade.
 
Last edited by mikefor20,

Lacius

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
18,099
Trophies
3
XP
18,338
Country
United States
You can justify anything with useless prattle.
I wouldn't call my response "useless prattle." I tried to respond succinctly to each of your points; there were just a lot of points in your large block of text. Perhaps your post was the prattle?

My point still stands.
It really doesn't. See my post above.

I don't care what other people do as long as they leave other people alone about it.
  • AKA "Do it in the closet."
  • Nobody is forcing you to attend Pride.

I don't care if your visibility makes you feel better about yourself.
This is called a lack of empathy towards others. It's common among members of a majority who don't understand the plight of the minority.

You don't have a right to feel better about yourself.
People have a constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness in the United States, as well as a constitutional right to free expression.

Leave everybody alone.
Nobody is forcing you to attend Pride.

Or expect to be put under the magnifying glass.
I don't think anybody at Pride has anything left to hide. That's kind of the point.

It's like when celebrities bitch about not having any privacy.
People in the United States also have a constitutional right to a reasonable expectation of privacy, even celebrities. Also, one can complain about not having as much privacy as he or she wants as a celebrity while acknowledging that it's a necessary evil that comes with the territory. I'm not sure what your point is here.

Or a hot chick complains that you're staring at her boobs.
If you had empathy, you would understand that the "hot chick" likely feels uncomfortable by your leering, and you shouldn't do it.

You want attention and visibility but only on your terms.
What are you even talking about? What terms?

It's good to want things. Pride Celebration sucks. It's really inconvenient for anybody who doesn't want to participate.
  1. Pride doesn't suck.
  2. Homophobia is likely much more inconvenient.
  3. If a little inconvenience is a price you're unwilling to pay in the pursuit of LGBT equality, you've got a problem.

I'm really glad it's once a year.
Unless you're suggesting that all parades should be banned, the fact that you're drawing the line with Pride is homophobic.

I don't think I'd feel any different about a straight Pride Parade either. It's all a bunch of annoying assholes are too loud and clogging all the BART trains. They should all just go home.
You and I are in agreement. Straight pride parades are unnecessary and only serve as a homophobic counterprotest to LGBT Pride.

For the record I know a lot about Stonewall I was born and raised around here. I knew about it since I was a child. It was a tragedy. But it somewhat has become as footnote and the parade is just a reason to make noise and get in people's faces. Don't they have sporting events for that?
The LGBT rights movement started with Stonewall, and it's very important, but Pride is about LGBT rights in general. There was also a big focus on Stonewall this year.
 

osm70

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
1,243
Trophies
1
XP
2,732
Country
Czech Republic
They might gain support if they could be seen as behaving like normal people. As it is, they push too hard, too fast and appear to be losing support.

https://www.richmond.com/sports/ap/...cle_d4533f6d-568c-564b-9650-95746ed48671.html

The link gives me this:

upload_2019-7-8_19-52-42.png
 

deinonychus71

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
912
Trophies
1
Location
Chicago
XP
2,861
Country
United States
As a gay person, I don't see the point of them either. If anything it makes me feel very uncomfortable when walking in town during a parade.
I'd much rather see a pride celebrating "love" in general, without any distinction.

Also LGBT rights aren't really challenged in "western" countries anymore. There will always be hateful people but they're now a minority. Do not misinterpret asking whether something is relevant to society (ex: whether "non binary" makes sense to be added to the law) from pure "hate", these are very different things.
 
Last edited by deinonychus71,
  • Like
Reactions: mikefor20 and Sono

Lacius

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
18,099
Trophies
3
XP
18,338
Country
United States
1. LGBT is not invisible. We all know LGBT people exist.
When people who are LGBT are told to go back into the closet and/or not express themselves, they're invisible. Without out gay people in straight people's lives, there's no empathy, and there's no progress on LGBT rights.

2. It is? I haven't noticed.
Probably because it's the default.

3. So, what if someone is basically saying this: "I don't care if you are gay. I don't want to hear it. I also don't care if you are straight. I don't want to hear it either. Basically, don't tell me you fell in love (with anyone) because I do not care"? What kind of a person would that make me?
You should read my previous post with my example about how one should or shouldn't respond to a friend getting married. Saying, "I don't care who you love" or "I don't care who you married" or "I don't care about your wife" is insensitive at best.

4. Default assumption? When I see someone I don't know, I don't "assume" any sexualities to them. What their sexuality might be never crosses my mind.
People generally assume a person is straight unless told otherwise. That's why people come out as gay but not as straight. They don't have to.

5. Yes. I can imagine it.
And what is your response?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sicklyboy

mikefor20

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
1,921
Trophies
2
Location
Mushroom Kingdom ( o Y o )
XP
3,811
Country
United States
LOL I don't have time to respond to all that. I was on my way out the door in the first place. My point does still stand. It really dowa. And leaving people alone about it doesn't mean in the closet it just means not in the face. Have some tact. Act like a human being and not some kind of caricature. You have to be able to understand that if you're not a moron.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

When people who are LGBT are told to go back into the closet and/or not express themselves, they're invisible. Without out gay people in straight people's lives, there's no empathy, and there's no progress on LGBT rights.


Probably because it's the default.


You should read my previous post with my example about how one should or shouldn't respond to a friend getting married. Saying, "I don't care who you love" or "I don't care who you married" or "I don't care about your wife" is insensitive at best.


People generally assume a person is straight unless told otherwise. That's why people come out as gay but not as straight. They don't have to.


And what is your response?


I really don't have the time right now but wow this post is hilarious. I don't know why people are so sensitive about this. You are really not oppressed these days. Not around here. I don't know about the rest of the country but the bay Area is very gay friendly. Some people don't like them but they are viewed as assholes. I do not mind gay people. But I still don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it if you're straight gay or in love with that chuck-e-cheese suit. I don't really care. I do have empathy. I just don't think everybody deserves empathy. Look around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sono

Lacius

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
18,099
Trophies
3
XP
18,338
Country
United States
We're here we're queer get used to it? What about the phrase I don't give a fuck, go fuck yourself and leave me the hell alone?
Your phrase carries a lot more animosity than the LGBT one.

Isn't that the original American Mantra right there?
"E pluribus unum" is quite the opposite. Don't be ridiculous.

Isn't that what everybody really wants is to be left alone? The American dream? Live and Let Live? Isn't that what the whole argument was in the first place is that you have a right to do whatever you want with two consenting adults? And to leave you the hell alone about it?
That's right. Pride exists because LGBT people have not (and are not) being treated with respect and dignity. Things would be much simpler if people would "live and let live."

But that's not good enough and now you have to be in every show? Every movie?
Pride isn't about being in movies in TV shows. You seem to have missed the purpose of Pride. It's about being treated equally and not having to hide one's identity.

Do you honestly believe that that's equal representation or do you want more rights? Do you want more representation? What percentage of the population is gay?
I don't know what you're talking about. I'm talking about anti-discrimination, anti-violence, anti-stigma, equality under the law, etc.

As for the percentage of people who are gay, it's about 5%. That's approximately 16.4 million people in the USA. That's bigger than the populations of 46 states.

Is it enough to justify exposure in everything and everywhere?
Absolutely. Pride is about not keeping people locked in the closet because you're homophobic, sexist, etc.

I'm part Portuguese but You don't see Portuguese people on TV much. And it's not enough to have Portuguese actors and actresses, they have to identify as Portuguese ans fly a flag and participate in Portuguese marches or I'm not happy.
If Portuguese people are an oppressed minority, they should do parades.

Where's my exposure? Where does it end? Everybody needs to shut the fuck up and leave everybody else alone about it that's where it needs to end. You really don't have a right to exposure or to be included. Selfish cry baby stuff
You're literally whining, "Where's MY exposure?" and you're saying that LGBT people taking a stand for basic rights and basic dignity is the "cry baby stuff"?

It's also quite telling that you're now saying LGBT people have no right to inclusion. You've gone from "live and let live" to "they shouldn't be included."
 

osm70

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
1,243
Trophies
1
XP
2,732
Country
Czech Republic
I guess what I have a hard time understanding is homophobia itself. Here in the Czech Republic, that practically doesn't happen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_Czech_Republic

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

When people who are LGBT are told to go back into the closet and/or not express themselves, they're invisible. Without out gay people in straight people's lives, there's no empathy, and there's no progress on LGBT rights.


Probably because it's the default.


You should read my previous post with my example about how one should or shouldn't respond to a friend getting married. Saying, "I don't care who you love" or "I don't care who you married" or "I don't care about your wife" is insensitive at best. [1]


People generally assume a person is straight unless told otherwise. That's why people come out as gay but not as straight. They don't have to.


And what is your response? [2]

1. Don't worry, I read it.

2. It's the same as the LGBT thing.
 

Lacius

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
18,099
Trophies
3
XP
18,338
Country
United States
They might gain support if they could be seen as behaving like normal people. As it is, they push too hard, too fast and appear to be losing support.

https://www.richmond.com/sports/ap/...cle_d4533f6d-568c-564b-9650-95746ed48671.html
Support for the LGBT community has increased dramatically since the LGBT rights movement and Pride, and support for the LGBT community is higher than it has ever been. For example, as of 2018, 68% of Americans support same-sex marriage. In 2008, that number was 39%.

Saying leave me alone isn't selfish.
That statement literally has the word "me" in it, and the statement is literally about making things only about you. I can't think of a more selfish statement. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to want to be left alone, but it's selfish.

Saying watch what I do and applaud me me even though you don't care to see it in the first place is selfish.
Nobody wants this.

Get used to it.
People are gay and are going to express it. They have every right. Get used to it.

That's a phrase that gets yelled at people constantly when they are being forced to do something they don't want to do.
If you can't deal with the fact that expressive gay people exist, that's your problem. You can either get used to it or obsessively stress out about it.

You know they used to tell the gay guys to get used to having sex with women. Just saying
This is one of the many reasons why Pride exists.

According to statistics not even one in 30 Americans is gay.
It's closer to 1/20.

So why do they deserve one in 30 representation on TV? Why is not having one in 30 on TV even an issue if you're 4% of the population or 10% of the population?
They should have 1/20 representation if everything is equal and discrimination isn't occurring.
Having media representation is part of Pride. Like coming out, the visibility of gay people in media contributes to the gay rights movement. It also helps LGBT youth feel less isolated.

Self-serving spectacle that has lost any true meaning.
You can check my previous posts on the subject for the meaning of Pride. It's a counterprotest to LGBT discrimination, violence, and existence-denial. These are pretty important.

It's a commercial thing now. Just like everything else in this country. And it's annoying as hell. If you live anywhere near the city you'd agree. It's at least inconvenient. Even if you like the parade.
I agree that the commercialism of Pride is a real concern, but that doesn't invalidate the need for Pride.

As a gay person, I don't see the point of them either. If anything it makes me feel very uncomfortable when walking in town during a parade.
I'd much rather see a pride celebrating "love" in general, without any distinction.

Also LGBT rights aren't really challenged in "western" countries anymore. There will always be hateful people but they're now a minority. Do not misinterpret asking whether something is relevant to society (ex: whether "non binary" makes sense to be added to the law) from pure "hate", these are very different things.
  1. LGBT rights still have a long way to go.
  2. Complacency inevitably leads to a rollback of rights.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

My point does still stand. It really dowa.
No, it really dowan't.

And leaving people alone about it doesn't mean in the closet it just means not in the face.
Nobody asked you to go to Pride. You seem to be ignoring this each time I say it to you.

Act like a human being and not some kind of caricature.
Before I take offense, what am I allegedly a caricature of?

You have to be able to understand that if you're not a moron.
If your intent is to get this thread locked, keep calling people names. Given my responses to your posts, I can understand why you might want this thread to get locked though.

I don't know why people are so sensitive about this.
You're the one obsessing over other people's sexualities and whether or not they can express their sexual identities.

You are really not oppressed these days. Not around here. I don't know about the rest of the country but the bay Area is very gay friendly.
Anti-LGBT discrimination happens all the time. Anti-LGBT violence and murder happens all the time. It is legal to be fired for being gay in many states. People actively want to rollback other gay rights, such as same-sex marriage. And, of course, people like you want to stuff people back into the closet and don't think they should be able to express their sexual identities in public.

Some people don't like them but they are viewed as assholes.
That's prejudice, which is one of the reasons why Pride exists.

I do not mind gay people. But I still don't want to hear it.
That's a denial of gay identity, and it's one of the reasons why Pride exists.

I don't want to hear it if you're straight gay or in love with that chuck-e-cheese suit.
So, you never feel inclined to talk about your romantic partners with others? From the point of view of everyone around you, you're a sexless being?

You also do understand that we are talking about the LGBT community at large. Gender identity, for example, is something you flaunt every day.

I don't really care. I do have empathy. I just don't think everybody deserves empathy. Look around.
If you're selectively deciding that LGBT people don't deserve empathy, then that's homophobic prejudice.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Here is a deal for all those who want pride to stop.

Help end homophobia and transphobia and we will have no need for Pride. It's that simple really. Plus it's a win/win for everyone
I meant to state this as some point but forgot to. Anyone complaining about Pride should advocate for LGBT rights and vote for pro-LGBT policies and politicians. Doing anything else perpetuates the need for Pride.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

It's the same as the LGBT thing.
I'm also arguing that they're comparable.
Are you going to articulate whether or not they're good things, or was your post meant to lack substance?
 

deinonychus71

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
912
Trophies
1
Location
Chicago
XP
2,861
Country
United States
Here is a deal for all those who want pride to stop.

Help end homophobia and transphobia and we will have no need for Pride. It's that simple really. Plus it's a win/win for everyone

Dear Anakin,
For all the "If you're not with me then you're against me" people out there

It's not necessarily about whether we are "in favor of LGBT" or not, but how it's being done. You can agree with the general intent while disagreeing with the method. That's what -a lot- of people on the thread have been saying. That does NOT make them homophobic or transphobic.
And by the way, you can replace "homophobic" by pretty much any social modern issue and it still works, criticize one manifestation of feminism and you're automatically anti-feminist, etc.

Look at this thread, there's at least 2 gay people telling you they're against it (me included).
And here's the reason: I don't believe this kind of event do anything to help reduce homophobia or transphobia. If anything, it reaffirms differences. Someone who was against it is not going to be swayed by it. The problem with xxxxphobia does not get resolved by shoving more of it down people throats, especially when -some people- in these parades are doing everything they can to encourage stereotypes.

I do not want to be more visible, I just want to be normal. And I've had no problem being normal in my entire life as I don't get over the top and don't over publicize my sexuality, which I think is fair.
Funnily enough, the only time I'm reminded of my sexuality is when colleagues ask me "were you at the parade this weekend?".

  1. LGBT rights still have a long way to go.
  2. 6z inevitably leads to a rollback of rights.

In western countries (well, the US as it's where most of the social battles are fought first) if we're at the point where people are just complaining cause they can't play a gay character in smash bros (yes yes resetera), I'd say we're in a pretty good place. Someone openly against gay people today is just being trashed publicly. Again, I'm well aware that hate crime is a thing, it's a thing and will always be a thing as it "naturally" come with differences, but there is no systemic homophobia anymore, which is what matters.


To conclude, a pride celebrating the "living together", "differences" or simply "love" or whatever would sound a lot better to me. It would remind us that social battles are about bringing people around what we have in common instead of pointing out differences.
 
Last edited by deinonychus71,
  • Like
Reactions: Kioku and Sono

Spider_Man

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
3,927
Trophies
0
Age
38
XP
5,174
Country
United States
to be fair i dont see the point in them, you cant change a persons view on something and i think things like this only provokes them.

its sad that we live in a world like this where others cant simply live how they like as long as it doesnt harm anyone else.

i get equality and all that, but it seems we live in a world where equality isnt as equal as it seems, for example if we did a day dedicated to straight people, the lgbt would be kicking off finding it offensive.

if we did the opposite of mobo awards, the black community would find it offensive.

i think everyone should be entitled to equality but we shouldnt have to dedicate a day/event to its cause.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
    Psionic Roshambo @ Psionic Roshambo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZbUuSmFgMo