What's your general opinion of Christianity?

invaderyoyo · Oct 15, 2018

Christianity and other religions are incredible. They can get otherwise reasonable adults to believe outlandish claims like an omnipotent sky daddy that sees and knows everything without anything even slightly resembling evidence.

It really is amazing.

kumikochan · Oct 15, 2018

invaderyoyo said:
Christianity and other religions are incredible. They can get otherwise reasonable adults to believe outlandish claims like an omnipotent sky daddy that sees and knows everything without anything even slightly resembling evidence.

It really is amazing.

Especially when the new rover lands on Mars to look at those rocks that have traces that do seem to be bacteria in it. When the new rover lands that has more equipment on it to see if there are bacteria in the soil around those rocks and the rocks itself plus also taking a sample from that ice formation well that would proof all holy books are bullshit since if you can find life in your own solar system and it has spouted more then once in a singular solar system that would mean the universe is teeming with life.

PanTheFaun · Oct 15, 2018

invaderyoyo said:
Christianity and other religions are incredible. They can get otherwise reasonable adults to believe outlandish claims like an omnipotent sky daddy that sees and knows everything without anything even slightly resembling evidence.

It really is amazing.

The ancients have talked about these things for thousands of years and meant it in a literal and not a mythological way. It may not be a "omnipotent sky daddy" but we may have been produced by a different race of beings. Anything is possible.

eworm · Oct 15, 2018

kumikochan said:
Especially when the new rover lands on Mars to look at those rocks that have traces that do seem to be bacteria in it. When the new rover lands that has more equipment on it to see if there are bacteria in the soil around those rocks and the rocks itself plus also taking a sample from that ice formation well that would proof all holy books are bullshit since if you can find life in your own solar system and it has spouted more then once in a singular solar system that would mean the universe is teeming with life.

Dude. If Christianity claimed humans were the only life, my cat would be able to disprove it by existing. Christianity doesn't claim we're "alone in the universe" (on contrary, it claims we're never alone), so I'm not sure you have the right arguments. Not for this conversation that is.

kumikochan · Oct 15, 2018

eworm said:
Dude. If Christianity claimed humans were the only life, my cat would be able to disprove it by existing. Christianity doesn't claim we're "alone in the universe" (on contrary, it claims we're never alone), so I'm not sure you have the right arguments. Not for this conversation that is.

It does claim that. It even claims the earth is the center of the universe so please back off with your religious bullshit

eworm · Oct 15, 2018

kumikochan said:
It does claim that. It even claims the earth is the center of the universe so please back off with your religious bullshit

Sorry. As a Christian, I was wrong to think I knew better what it is I believe than a random atheist on the Internet whose best answer to a factual correction is calling the other person's statement "bullshit".
...
How dare you use her as your avatar, whoops, did I just type that out loud!

kumikochan · Oct 15, 2018

eworm said:
Sorry. As a Christian, I was wrong to think I knew better what it is I believe than a random atheist on the Internet whose best answer to a factual correction is calling the other person's statement "bullshit".
...
How dare you use her as your avatar, whoops, did I just type that out loud!

That's the thing with you religious nutjobs. Everybody else is always wrong and ur only correct. Even when science proves it differently you come out with bullshit stories claiming it is a misinterpretation suddenly or that it's false. Just like Christians claimed the earth was the center of the universe wich it is not and that the sun turns around the earth wich it also doesn't. You also claim evolution is false and that there is no such thing as evolution even while their being tons of evidence shoved right at your faces. Even that stupid trinity story doesn't make sense. Jezus is god and so is god at the same time but so is the holy spirit at the same time. They're all their own thing and own person but they're also the same god

koyuki38 · Oct 15, 2018

Not better than any other, except they stop killing people while some maybe should try to stop too.

tri_fin · Oct 15, 2018

I am sorry if this has been mentioned but I did read alot of posts and didn't see it at all...

Christianity seems to give man dominion over animals (and the world). This is totally out of line.

eworm · Oct 15, 2018

kumikochan said:
That's the thing with you religious nutjobs. Everybody else is always wrong and ur only correct.

I said you're incorrect about what Christianity says. I haven't touched the Earth or evolution or anything - only said you have a wrong definition of my religion. Which you do, this is not a statement of belief, this is a fact. Saying "you're wrong about dogs walking on two legs" is not me forcing my belief on you or claiming superiority. It's me correcting your mistake.

An argument can be wrong in three ways. Either the terms are used vaguely/incorrectly or the beginning argument starts with a false premise or the conclusion it reaches doesn't actually logically follows from the premises. You've made all three mistakes.
You've defined Christianity as something which couldn't be further from Christianity - a belief system that includes and even relies on there being no extra-terrestial life. You're also saying Christianity claims evolution is false and that Earth is the middle of the universe. None of that is true, and that counts as both a wrong definition and a false premise. Finally, you make a leap in logic between "Christianity is wrong about scientific facts (how the universe works)" and "therefore Christianity is wrong about everything else it preaches". One does not follow from the other.

Now, if you're not interested in a discussion, you're free to say so and leave. But it's in rather poor taste to stick around only to throw half-baked insults at something important for others and then, when they ask you to explain yourself, rely on "it's just bullsh*t because it is, you're an idiot if you don't see it, why do you claim to know everything better".

Deleted User · Oct 15, 2018

I've always thought that Christianity was a religion created to control the masses. Nowadays it doesn't work to the same scale as in the past, but now I find it to be more like an escapegoat for people that are too afraid to face life and become the gods themselves by pushing through their limits, both mentaly and phisicaly.
I'm not going to say that gods do or do not exist, but if they do, why not give us a little hand sometimes by stopping tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc? Oh wait, it's their divine plan!

kumikochan · Oct 15, 2018

eworm said:
I said you're incorrect about what Christianity says. I haven't touched the Earth or evolution or anything - only said you have a wrong definition of my religion. Which you do, this is not a statement of belief, this is a fact. Saying "you're wrong about dogs walking on two legs" is not me forcing my belief on you or claiming superiority. It's me correcting your mistake.

An argument can be wrong in three ways. Either the terms are used vaguely/incorrectly or the beginning argument starts with a false premise or the conclusion it reaches doesn't actually logically follows from the premises. You've made all three mistakes.
You've defined Christianity as something which couldn't be further from Christianity - a belief system that includes and even relies on there being no extra-terrestial life. You're also saying Christianity claims evolution is false and that Earth is the middle of the universe. None of that is true, and that counts as both a wrong definition and a false premise. Finally, you make a leap in logic between "Christianity is wrong about scientific facts (how the universe works)" and "therefore Christianity is wrong about everything else it preaches". One does not follow from the other.

Now, if you're not interested in a discussion, you're free to say so and leave. But it's in rather poor taste to stick around only to throw half-baked insults at something important for others and then, when they ask you to explain yourself, rely on "it's just bullsh*t because it is, you're an idiot if you don't see it, why do you claim to know everything better".

All of that is true. Even the previous pope said it himself that evolution is false. Yes Christianity did claim earth was the center of the universe and that the sun goes around earth and not the other way around. Yes the trinity doesn't make sense at all because god, jezus and the holy spirit are all a different entitity but they're also the same entity being god.

invaderyoyo · Oct 15, 2018

PanTheFaun said:
The ancients have talked about these things for thousands of years and meant it in a literal and not a mythological way. It may not be a "omnipotent sky daddy" but we may have been produced by a different race of beings. Anything is possible.

Sure, anything is possible, but not every possibility is worth a second thought.

PanTheFaun · Oct 15, 2018

invaderyoyo said:
Sure, anything is possible, but not every possibility is worth a second thought.

That's your opinion. It may not be worth a second thought to you but it may be to others.

FAST6191 · Oct 15, 2018

eworm said:
Body telling you something is right means jack. When I'm angry my body will tell me smashing someone's face in might be good. Rapists do what their bodies tell them is so right. I'm not saying all pleasure is wrong, all that's physical is sinful. Of course not, our bodies have the same inventor as our souls and they were designed as beyond amazing. But "listening" to them? I'd rather have my body rather than have my body have me, thank you.

Also, there is nothing about denying life or liberty or happiness in Christianity. Abortion is not life, hedonism is not liberty and pleasure is not happiness. Meanwhile sex is not "putting a thing in a thing for some rush", it's a life-creating act in which love joins two people into one body, sharing themselves with each other more than is otherwise possible, and sanctity joins childish fun without either losing anything of itself. If you think Christians believe sex to be sinful, think again, we have a much higher view of it than atheists. Of course you don't see any sense in installing an alarm system in a run-down shack - but we see a majestic temple full of riches instead.

To avoid the denial of life (babies come from heterosexual couples) for one thing. To allow the pursuit of happiness as realised via creating a healthy marriage and family. God is One in Three Persons and humans, unless designated otherwise by God, are at their happiest and most realised as a part of a family unit. Even biologically we're wired very much for that purpose. There's a reason children brought up by same-sex couples are much more likely to have psychological and social issues, be more susceptible to depression and such. It's unnatural. Under a guise of "fixing", we've broken the working thing instead of addressing the actual problem.

Using a condom prevents conception. There's no life there. But conception creates a unique genetic code. It's not that of the father, it's not that of the mother. It won't change or grow with the development, it's the same 1 millisecond after conception as it will be 100 years after. That is the only biological threshold at which we can safely define the beginning of human life. Ending a human life is killing. Murder is killing with intent and abortion is intentional. It's a simple matter.

"Physical is sinful"
Is that why coveting goods and partners of others (both limited very much to the mind) form two of the commandments?

Back on topic conflating homosexuality with violence and rape is not a great look in an argument. Going further your body and your mind are very much related and I think you may have read the wrong interpretation into that.

Sex is not solely for procreation. It is noted in any number of animals for its bonding potential. Equally I am not seeing anything about not marrying infertile or old people, or indeed for them to get off scot free as they can't procreate. Similarly I don't know how you got to me thinking Christianity (specifically the flavour you appear to plump for -- there are many different interpretations, sometime I pondered in an earlier reply) considered sex to be sinful -- while there are some interpretations that do the more common one very much cares for it, just that it is done within specific confines. Similarly what view of sex do atheists have? If Christianity is anything but monolithic then atheism (merely the lack of a belief in gods) is noted for a complete lack of codified or generally accepted beliefs beyond the base definition already mentioned.

As far as non heterosexual couples producing kids of notable incidence rates of the negatives you mention then citation needed there, furthermore is it worse than single parentage or remarried... or any number of other things deemed acceptable? Courts and lawmakers are generally very keen on preventing harms.

On your understanding of conception and genetics it differs rather from current science. On not changing then developmental copying errors might be a start, epigenetics another thing to look at. Murder is unlawful killing, intention is part of it but the unlawful part is the main one. Life beginning at conception is a debatable concept as well. You also have the fun one of failure to implant (would that mean condoms are OK but morning after pill is not) and would you investigate every miscarriage as a murder?

Anyway it appears we have fundamentally different approaches to the world. We can try to thrash out a basis for a discussion if you want though historically it takes a while.

eworm · Oct 15, 2018

kumikochan said:
All of that is true. Even the previous pope said it himself that evolution is false. Yes Christianity did claim earth was the center of the universe and that the sun goes around earth and not the other way around. Yes the trinity doesn't make sense at all because god, jezus and the holy spirit are all a different entitity but they're also the same entity being god.

Ptolemy's "Almagest", a classic astronomy book that's been used throughout the Middle Ages included Earth being a comparatively insignificant point in the universe. People had already known about Earth not being the outer space's focal point in the times of Dante, St. Augustine, Thomas Acquinas and more. What do you know, these big Christian thinkers had no problem fitting this scientific fact, the one that's later become supposedly so "problematic" to religion and such a shutdown answer to Christianity. It almost like Christianity cares not about astronomy, huh.

Evolution was not claimed to be false. The Pope said it is a scientific theory with some validity to it. And that's exactly what it is, nothing more, nothing less. It's a theory about how the changes in the organisms could have changed across time. But then it became the religion of "EVERYTHING works in this particular way". Our brains, our societies, our laws, it's all based on the "adaptability" mechanic. Sure, a lot of it makes sense, especially the biological stuff. But it's not a be-all, end-all answer. At most Christianity may say "it's a theory, not a confirmed fact" and "it doesn't and shouldn't claim to answer any questions fro outside its stated field - live organisms' changes across time" and "it doesn't have all the answers" and especially "like anything scientific, it will provide no 'why', only 'how's". If that's "believing evolution isn't real", well, I guess you've scored a point.

The Trinity doesn't make sense? Would a cube make sense to a 2D being? Try to explain that one. I mean, it's made of squares, you know what those are, but they are connected with each other and create a bigger shape... No, no, the squares' lines don't cross, they meet at the ends... No, seriously, that's what 3D means, it's not "impossible".
If God made sense to our little human brains, it would be a very disappointing God. I would doubt such a God could've been the Creator of all things in the first place. After all, a character in the story is no more capable of writing the sequel than they are of tearing the pages their story's printed on. But Jesus was somewhat of an author cameo, except in a more real way than any allegory could sufficiently express. Still, doesn't mean the Author wasn't "separate" in some way, while still being the same God.

kumikochan · Oct 15, 2018

eworm said:
Ptolemy's "Almagest", a classic astronomy book that's been used throughout the Middle Ages included Earth being a comparatively insignificant point in the universe. People had already known about Earth not being the outer space's focal point in the times of Dante, St. Augustine, Thomas Acquinas and more. What do you know, these big Christian thinkers had no problem fitting this scientific fact, the one that's later become supposedly so "problematic" to religion and such a shutdown answer to Christianity. It almost like Christianity cares not about astronomy, huh.

Evolution was not claimed to be false. The Pope said it is a scientific theory with some validity to it. And that's exactly what it is, nothing more, nothing less. It's a theory about how the changes in the organisms could have changed across time. But then it became the religion of "EVERYTHING works in this particular way". Our brains, our societies, our laws, it's all based on the "adaptability" mechanic. Sure, a lot of it makes sense, especially the biological stuff. But it's not a be-all, end-all answer. At most Christianity may say "it's a theory, not a confirmed fact" and "it doesn't and shouldn't claim to answer any questions fro outside its stated field - live organisms' changes across time" and "it doesn't have all the answers" and especially "like anything scientific, it will provide no 'why', only 'how's". If that's "believing evolution isn't real", well, I guess you've scored a point.

The Trinity doesn't make sense? Would a cube make sense to a 2D being? Try to explain that one. I mean, it's made of squares, you know what those are, but they are connected with each other and create a bigger shape... No, no, the squares' lines don't cross, they meet at the ends... No, seriously, that's what 3D means, it's not "impossible".
If God made sense to our little human brains, it would be a very disappointing God. I would doubt such a God could've been the Creator of all things in the first place. After all, a character in the story is no more capable of writing the sequel than they are of tearing the pages their story's printed on. But Jesus was somewhat of an author cameo, except in a more real way than any allegory could sufficiently express. Still, doesn't mean the Author wasn't "separate" in some way, while still being the same God.

You do know that in the middle ages everybody was forced being Christian. In fact if you weren't and denounced anything you would get killed so what your saying doesn't go with me. And no the trinity doesn't make sense at all.

ReigningSemtex · Oct 15, 2018

I'm glad some people enjoy believing in it but it's not for me

Song of storms · Oct 16, 2018

tri_fin said:
I am sorry if this has been mentioned but I did read alot of posts and didn't see it at all...

Christianity seems to give man dominion over animals (and the world). This is totally out of line.

Because the rest of the animals in the animal kingdom cooperate in coexistence and don't kill, rape or ostracize other animals. Of course!

Out of all the retarded stuff that has been written here, this takes the cake.

eworm · Oct 16, 2018

FAST6191 said:
As far as non heterosexual couples producing kids of notable incidence rates of the negatives you mention then citation needed there, furthermore is it worse than single parentage or remarried... or any number of other things deemed acceptable? Courts and lawmakers are generally very keen on preventing harms.

Not anymore. Now they're keen on preventing "offense" or "discrimination".
But yeah, single parentage being acceptable is your premise. Christianity doesn't deem it okay, especially not if it's due to one or both parents "splitting up". You do realise divorce doesn't exist in Christianity, right? Once married, it's "till death do you part" if not further. So yeah, if you take a look at Christianity and say "why is A wrong, if B is okay?" when B is not in fact "okay", your argument is not an argument.

FAST6191 said:
Murder is unlawful killing, intention is part of it but the unlawful part is the main one.

This astonishes me. So in Nazi Germany, it was not "murder" to gas the Jews, it was "only" killing. Killing one's slaves wasn't murder either. If laws, man-made laws, determine morality, we are speeding up the road to hell.
And yes, the pro-abortion argument is the pro-slavery argument. As in "we decide who's a person and who isn't". Blacks weren't people, now it's unborn children. Who knows what's next.

FAST6191 said:
Life beginning at conception is a debatable concept as well.

Not debatable, debated. Tell me when it is you believe life begins and why. I mean, you're pro-abortion, so you ARE sure you know where life begins. We're talking about possible murder, so anyone who isn't sure when it becomes a murder of a human person is either anti-abortion just "in case" or okay with killing innocent babies. You ain't got much wiggle room here.

FAST6191 said:
You also have the fun one of failure to implant (would that mean condoms are OK but morning after pill is not) and would you investigate every miscarriage as a murder?

The morning-after pill is indeed not okay. Miscarriages aren't murder, they're deaths.

But look, all this stuff is secondary to the discussion. Christianity is not a moral code, it's not a system of laws. It is a belief about reality. At the end of the day, all the viewpoints come out of a single point, follow from the belief in a Three-Personal God, the Creator of the universe, the All-Knowing, All-Mighty Love whom humans turned away from, but He chased relentlessly, saved by becoming a human Himself and dying on the cross, thus paying back the price all humans in all of time sacrificing themselves willingly wouldn't match. The moment the conversation shifts to "is Christianity good?", the point is lost. Whether it's good or not (whatever that would mean) is secondary. You don't ask whether the theory of relativity is "good" but whether it's factual. You don't ask if electrons are good, only whether they exist. You don't ask whether the universe expanding is good, only whether it is true that it does.
The implementations, good or bad, come after establishing facts.

What's your general opinion of Christianity?

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