Lootboxes now considered gambling in the Netherlands, four games must make changes

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The worldwide lootboxes controversy continues, and this time, the claim is coming from the Netherlands. Four games were found to be breaking the country's "Betting and Gaming Act", meaning there's an addictive gambling element, and due to the ability for players to create a market based upon selling lootbox content, it's considered a "game of chance", and therefore requires a license. The four games weren't specified, however a Dutch news channel called out games like PUBG, Rocket League, Dota 2, and FIFA 18. All of which do have a large trading economies that base themselves on lootboxes.

The Dutch gaming authority has decided that lootboxes are similar to casino games, meaning they either need to acquire a gambling license in the country, or the developers need to change how lootboxes work. Such changes would involve disabling any visual effects while opening a lootbox, so that players do not have a rush of excitement from potentially being psyched into winning big, and there needs to be a cooldown on opening lootboxes, so players don't open mass amounts of them in one go. The four games must make here changes before June 20, or else the Dutch gaming authority will be forced to take legal action.

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The Catboy

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Yes but in the case you gave, the game is severely suffering and on fan life support. There's almost no new content being added, major patches if they're lucky every few years, no official tournaments and a struggling player base that have to deal with hackers because of the lack of anti cheat monitoring. This is all because the game isn't making valve enough money. So the freemium method is *not* working for tf2. Players are doing everything they can to keep it from dying.
TF2 wasn't the best example, it was just the first one to come to mind while at work.
Honestly though I don't think I am contributing much to this conversation because I view microtransactions and lootboxes the same way I view proprietary software.
 

FAST6191

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what are they? i always thought its kind of physical box of some gadgets or other stuff
A few years back "microtransactions" became a popular way to fund games that might not have got by on traditional sell game+expansions, donations or straight up paid play.
What they did varied a bit between games but commonly it was seen to offer selections in multiplayer games (if you have a 30 character roster you pick 3 randomly, unless they pay in which case their selection of choice), extra skins and such like. Other games offered different weapons (this got split between pay to win where those that paid got better stuff, others paid to have a similarly potent weapon or indeed a fairly different way of playing), or enhanced modes of play (for example more draw distance in one of the turn based city building things I played once, others might offer experience boosters).
So far so shady, or perhaps just a new way to monetise. There were instances of games, often single player puzzle games offering continues a la the arcades of old, connected to apple and android stuff (possibly also MS and Sony console stuff but that got less attention) which in turn were connected to credit/debit cards and kids creating a nice bill for their parents.

At similar times it was noted that "progression" in your multiplayer game was a thing some enjoyed. Often this was governed by you "levelling up" or spending some resource gained by play and unlocking a pack with some random weapons/weapon addons/skins in it.
Not something I terribly enjoy, certainly never thought Quake or Unreal needed such a thing, but OK.

Some then figured out the combination of the two concepts would make a lot of money. They were right.

Some games also allow trading these items with friends. If you can trade it then you can sell it. This then led to the rise of sites wherein one could wager said skins on the outcomes of events which caused some fun as it then becomes a de facto currency of sorts. This is not the gambling some refer to when discussing such this and instead they refer to the more basic concept, though such things certainly got the legal types to take note as indeed appears to be the case for this.
If this sounds a bit like booster packs of old collectable card games then you are right, those also appeared in computer form by the way and displayed some of the worst excesses here, and are what some consider the gambling aspect.

Equally while it started out as smaller companies seeking a way to fund things then today it is used by the biggest game devs doing the biggest games. Star Wars battlefront 2 (a game made by EA and with star wars on the front) being one that got a lot of press for it last year, and they are far from the only ones.
 
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leon315

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A cool down timer for paying for lootboxes makes sense. Restricting effects are a bit much.

Also, yeah. A lot of people use Overwatch Lootboxes layout even though they are probably going to be the least effected by this whole thing.
More like Lootboxes are gambing, if you do specific things with them base on their guidelines.


I'm pretty sure they got around that.
nope, no loot boxes in all games, u are only allowed to purchase in game credits (overwatch coins) and boxes obviously are gifted depending on how many coins u purchase.
 

Joe88

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It wasn't free at first, has a tiny player base in comparison, and has no big tournaments being run by valve or content being added :v that's a really bad comparison
ignoring that a 10+ year old game got its biggest update ever 5 months ago with a ton of new content?
 

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ignoring that a 10+ year old game got its biggest update ever 5 months ago with a ton of new content?
That doesn't change anything that I said. One big update 5 months ago is nothing. Overwatch gets a new character more often then that, let alone bug fixes and balance changes. Here's the facts, tf2 brings in very little money for valve. Because of this it gets big updates very infrequently, had a tiny pro scene and it's playerbase is suffering. Clearly the freemium strategy is not pulling in enough money for valve to focus on keeping the game alive, so I don't see how in hell overwatch would be able to survive on it, which was my original point.
 

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Eff politicians who dictate how I get to spend my money? You know how dumb a statement that is right? You can use that exact same statement to say that meth should be legal, or military grade assault weapons. Just cause it's your money doesn't mean you should be able to spend it however you want. That being said I'm not sure I agree with the Netherlands actions. Pencil me down as undecided.
The fact you used the term "assault weapons" shows you know nothing about guns. If you want some bureaucrat to run your life, move to Venezuela or North Korea.
 

bi388

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The fact you used the term "assault weapons" shows you know nothing about guns. If you want some bureaucrat to run your life, move to Venezuela or North Korea.
Oh ok so saying I want military grade weapons to not be in the hands of civilians is dumb? Thats wanting bureaucrats to ruin my life? I dont have to know about guns to know that fully automatic, military grade weapons are not something normal people should own, and even most far right loonies agree with that. That isnt authoritarian, thats common sense laws. Something you are lacking.
 

Xzi

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The fact you used the term "assault weapons" shows you know nothing about guns. If you want some bureaucrat to run your life, move to Venezuela or North Korea.
What term would you use for them? They suck at hitting distance targets and they suck for hunting, though I'm only a target shooter myself. The only things anything labeled "AR" are good for is random shooting funzies in the middle of nowhere not expecting to hit much, or spray and pray in a crowded area. And yeah, I know a lot of ARs are semi-autos too, but they're easily converted to full auto and I'm sure you know that as well as I.
 
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Haloman800

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Oh ok so saying I want military grade weapons to not be in the hands of civilians is dumb? Thats wanting bureaucrats to ruin my life? I dont have to know about guns to know that fully automatic, military grade weapons are not something normal people should own, and even most far right loonies agree with that. That isnt authoritarian, thats common sense laws. Something you are lacking.
It's already illegal to own them, soyboy.

>police are racist
>only police should have guns

pick one.

What term would you use for them?
Depends on what item you're referring to. I bet you think "AR" stands for "assault rifle".

Back on topic, when you give up your guns, it's a slippery slope to the ridiculous laws as in the OP.
 
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bi388

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It's already illegal to own them, soyboy.

>police are racist
>only police should have guns

pick one.


Depends on what item you're referring to. I bet you think "AR" stands for "assault rifle".

Back on topic, when you give up your guns, it's a slippery slope to the ridiculous laws as in the OP.
LOL ok so ad homenim, good argument, and then strawman claiming i said only police should own guns (I actually said citizens shouldn't own military grade fully auto weapons) and that I said police are racist (I've never said in my life that more than some small percentage of police are racist)
 
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FAST6191

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What the hell is happening here, Haloman800?

You used to at least attempt to care about debate etiquette and seeking a constructive debate. There you seem to be going for name calling and going through the list of fallacies at a fairly rapid pace.
 

Gamemaster1379

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TF2 wasn't the best example, it was just the first one to come to mind while at work.
Honestly though I don't think I am contributing much to this conversation because I view microtransactions and lootboxes the same way I view proprietary software.
TF2 is actually a great example, it's just that Valve's own neglect to it was what crippled it. That game was enough of a cash cow it could have run their company indefinitely. But they decided to just not care and let it die.
 
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TotalInsanity4

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It's already illegal to own them, soyboy.
Not only is this incredibly offtopic, but this comment did virtually nothing to refute his argument and may have actually helped it

However, it is also not currently illegal to own an AR 15, which is what I assume both he and @Xzi were referring to

Also, I know this was WAY back in the conversation, but regarding this taking away "personal liberties", I ONLY see this as being a positive thing for consumers. There's nothing stopping game companies from selling you everything that's in the loot boxes now, it's just that now they'll either have to a) register for a gambling license and follow all applicable laws regarding digital gambling in every region they hope to release, or b) just sell stuff individually or in bundles, so that you as a consumer can choose exactly what you want to buy the first time without spending your entire paycheck trying to chance it

I mean honestly, it's like some of you LIKE spending money

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

What the hell is happening here, Haloman800?

You used to at least attempt to care about debate etiquette and seeking a constructive debate. There you seem to be going for name calling and going through the list of fallacies at a fairly rapid pace.
I think you're significantly gilding his debate tactics, ESPECIALLY if you think he ever sought constructive debate; I've never seen him participate in a debate that he didn't run with his own position until the end, even if it was into the ground

Granted, I've been guilty of the same thing, I'll readily admit, but this isn't about me :P
 

netovsk

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And setting up a cooldown timer... I wonder how long should that be... one lootbox per day perhaps?

This would set the prices up, and people would be "selling" their cooldowns.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

TF2 is actually a great example, it's just that Valve's own neglect to it was what crippled it. That game was enough of a cash cow it could have run their company indefinitely. But they decided to just not care and let it die.

Getting a cut on sales is the eternal cash cow.

Valve, Microsoft and Sony just care enough about developing games so that you move to their platform.

And then buy games like The Witcher, Far Cry or whatever is it you like on their platform, then they take a nice % cut on the purchase without any risks whatsoever. Not so much on 1p titles which still have to pay for themselves.
 

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