One of the biggest on-going gaming controversies of the tail-end of the decade is, without a doubt, the existence of lootboxes. They've been banned in multiple European countries, and both the United States and United Kingdom have current legal investigations as to the legality and morality of lootboxes being implemented in video games. Since November of last year, the UK Gambling Commission has been looking into lootboxes, with a recent hearing regarding the topic taking place on July 22nd. During that hearing, the Gambling Commission stated that while they have "significant concerns" about children playing games that feature lootboxes as a major gameplay component, they can't consider lootboxes as gambling, in their current form.

There are other examples of things that look and feel like gambling that legislation tells you are not - [such as] some prize competitions but because they have free play or free entry they are not gambling... but they are a lot like a lottery,

The reasoning behind this is that in order to be classified as gambling, the resulting prizes gotten from within lootboxes must either be money itself, or have an inherent monetary value. In some games, accounts that have lootbox-gained items or skins can be bought and sold, and in other cases, players can pay real money to be traded valued items, however, due to these "black market" sites not being sanctioned or officially endorsed by the gaming companies themselves, publishers cannot be held liable.

While the UK appears to be conflicted on how to proceed when it comes to lootbox legality, the Netherlands and Berlin have both determined that they classify as gambling, according to their own laws. On the other hand, companies that actively profit from lootboxes, like EA, have said that lootboxes are mere surprise mechanics, and are harmless to consumers.

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[AbyssalMonkey]

If I remember there is an intrinsic value to say TCGs, for example, but their prices are flat and it's basically acknowledge as akin to always buying 'down' (Spending for something worth less) so it isn't gambling.

People can crucify me for all I care, but I personally find this to be bullshit. You are marketing randomness.

They should all be required to disclose the exact prize pool and the odds of every prize. A consumer should never be guessing about what goods they are buying. T/CCGs can go get fucked. It's an inherently consumer non-friendly business tactic. A consumer should never be making purchases of chance, that's what businesses do. We have mandatory refunds, and mandatory warranties issued by law to prevent and protect against faulty design, such that the consumer upon purchasing their good, knows what they are buying has a guaranteed safe period wherein it will work as intended, and will not randomly fault.

Edit: Let me restate my position to make it clear: Selling randomness without disclosing the odds is a deal made in bad faith. The producer of the good/service is selling you such while withholding the complete information about the product. The consumer is therefore unable to make informed decisions about the purchase, even if they wanted to find out all the details with due diligence. This should be flat out illegal, and is the definition of bad faith. Every other sector of business has had this thoroughly rooted out. Foods must disclose all ingredients. Electrical equipment must disclose the power consumption. Vehicles must disclose their gas mileage. When buying anything else, all relevant information about the use of the product that is not obviously clear is made clear via labels printed on the box.

 

[Meteor7]

I don't know why the distinction is drawn at whether or not the prizes in lootboxes have monetary value, since the mechanic produces effects mostly identical to gambling in the population regardless. It's like calling something that shoots bullets and kills people "not a gun" because it's lime green, and guns aren't usually lime green, so it's not a gun. It doesn't really seem like it matters.

 

[DarthDub]

I'd rather spend money on lootboxes than spend money on a girlfriend.

 

[gamesquest1]

I don't know why the distinction is drawn at whether or not the prizes in lootboxes have monetary value, since the mechanic produces effects mostly identical to gambling in the population regardless. It's like calling something that shoots bullets and kills people "not a gun" because it's lime green, and guns aren't usually lime green, so it's not a gun. It doesn't really seem like it matters.

i would argue its more like trying to get knives recategorised as guns because they are both used to kill people, sure they have a similar outcome in certain cases, but one is not the other, thats not to say you couldn't look towards placing stricter regulations on just how deadly the knife can be designed to be, if there was a knife crime epidemic or something, sure ban the sale of triple bladed serrated knives that are purposefully designed to do extreme damage to people, not as if it was a gun, but as if it is a purposefully deadly knife with no other purpose but to do as much damage as possible, once you go down the path of calling everything that can be used to kill people is a gun you start to lose the definition of words

i think this is the core issue people are having here, people arguing its not gambling are not saying it isn't a bad practice in some cases, or shouldn't be regulated in some way, they are are mostly just saying it doesn't quite fit the definition of gambling per se, it has its own issues and some parallels but we shouldn't be so quick to say everything with an element of chance/luck is akin to a casino with blackjack and hookers

 

[anhminh]

I know it would come to this. Gacha game simply made too much money to go down that way.

 

[CharlesHoy]

I can see why they class it like this though, the supermarket kids vending machines for £1 is essentially the same thing. Surprise mechanic, pay your money, get toy, whether you like it or not is a different matter.

 

[Deleted User]

must have been quite the paycheck

 

[Deleted member 281690]

must have been quite the paycheck

Im born and bred in the uk and yes it's fucked up, just like the rest of the world at the moment, every fuckers offended about some shit, but it's clear to me loot boxes are gambling but the revenue to the uk from it is too much for the government to throw away and they will drag it out to make more coin and then eventually will side with the masses and make it out to be such a great thing they have banned/reclassified loot boxes while swimming in millions

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I can see why they class it like this though, the supermarket kids vending machines for £1 is essentially the same thing. Surprise mechanic, pay your money, get toy, whether you like it or not is a different matter.

It is the basically the same as you say but theres a big difference in spending a couple of quid in the pub annoying your parents at the weekend and spending hundreds in your room, click click click boom and now it's food bank time, it's done like everything in business, to milk you dry of your cash, the people at the top, the rich fuckers, don't care about you and will milk your titties dry

 

[IncredulousP]

So does this mean I can run a giant casino for all ages in UK, as long as people first cash in by buying tokens, then saying "you totally can't cash out your tokens, definitely especially not at that counter over there behind the dumpster"? Because that's essentially what is being allowed here. It is gambling, simple as that. Just because the means of cashing out aren't technically legal, does not mean it is not gambling.

 

[Bladexdsl]

boris loves lootboxes that's why this didn't pass as gambling

 

[RedBlueGreen]

Nah some games have lootboxes that just pop up at random times such as on level up's. They're free but they are still lootboxes and they lure people into spending shitload's of money on lootboxes.

No, they really don't. That's like saying pulling a rare card from a pack of TCG cards is luring you into buying more cards. And this is coming from someone who spent $250 on cards and sleeves last month.

It's nobody's fault but the consumer if they choose to buy loot boxes. There isn't some big boogeyman taking advantage of people. If somebody buys something or spends money because they have poor self control that's on them.

I'm gonna TL;DR what I typed. You're not wagering anything or spending money for the chance to win something and risking it. You're paying for an item in the box. Whether it's what you want is irrelevant, you're still not losing anything. This is why the UK Gambling Commission doesn't consider it gambling.

So does this mean I can run a giant casino for all ages in UK, as long as people first cash in by buying tokens, then saying "you totally can't cash out your tokens, definitely especially not at that counter over there behind the dumpster"? Because that's essentially what is being allowed here. It is gambling, simple as that. Just because the means of cashing out aren't technically legal, does not mean it is not gambling.

Except it isn't legally defined as gambling in the UK.

It would be gambling if you allowed said tokens to be cashed in, because then they have a monetary value. That's how a casino works actually. You buy chips, play with chips, and cash out your chips. If your tokens represent real money or can be exchanged for real money, and players risk them by playing whatever game, it's undeniably gambling.

 

[MetoMeto]

Gambling your not, you cant protect someone from themselves by limiting their freedom as a citizen. if someone wants to spend on lootboxes they will find a way. A sane person would never do that i a abnormal way.
But it shouldn't be available for kids and it should be clear as day, since kids lack the consciousness of an adult and don't fully understand psichological manipulation of such practises. And if kids still uses them than parent's should be more informed what their kid is doing. As for adults...well...they are adults... but if that adult is a person thats being manipulated than its ea's fault for exploiting them without telling precautions or calling the center to confirm the person is sane...because sane people dont do such things.....well...most dont anyway.

EA should definetly DO something to protect people from such nasty stuff..no one is telling they cant sell loot boxes even if theg suck, but just as facebook, everything should be apparent and transparent and not calling them "surprise mechanics".
Its like when Schizophrenic person say "im not sick" and stop taking medications and doctors are like "oh..well..if you say it than that must be true. off of medications you are, go do what you want" i mean no one is blaming EA for making money, but being nasty and secretive about it and hurting others (iven if its not their direct fault) is just nasty and something should be done ABOUT THAT! Just like with facebook and other things. I mean people will still use facebook but now they are more avare of stuff and what their account is doing. Its Its all about being transparent...if there is no transparency than something seriously stinks imho!

I mean come! on "surprise mechanics" ...really?!

Its not about this being a gambling or not, its about adressing the issue!

 

[DjoeN]

Nintendo is pulling Fire Emblem Hero's (orbs) and Animal Crossing Mobile (dunno wht) from the app/play store in Belgium.

Not restricting it, but just pulling it :/ , so i saved up to 1000 orbs and spend all of them yesterday, cause next month the game will be unplayable in our country (it checks your nintendo id for country)

 

[JavaScribe]

Just because legislation says other things aren't gambling doesn't mean this should be not considered gambling...

In any case, if they give you an in-game advantage, they need to go away. If the items can't be purchased any other way, it's time to reconsider.

 

[naughty_cat]

If some countries have laws against a video games being classified as a form of "gambling"... Wouldn't that mean that GTAV should now be considered to be an illegal game in such countries? Recently the "Diamond Casino" update came out for GTAV, and basically it allows players to do all sorts of virtual gambling activities, such as playing poker and blackjack as well as betting on horses and slot machines using GTA money (which can be bought with real money)... GTAV never even had any kind of loot box element in it, and DLC's were always, and still are 100% free.. But now it has plain outright virtual gambling... I wonder if this would ever have an impact on the legality of the game...

 

[the_randomizer]

Look at that, government officials being inept, lazy dumbasses as usual