Hacking Sky3ds supports 3DS v9.4.0-21 with no game limit

Arithmatics · Dec 12, 2014

gamesquest1 said:
no updating and refining their verification to add additional checks wouldnt mean all existing games are useless, think of it like this currently 3ds says "hello are you NDS or 3DS card?", card replies its type, next it says "ok so whats the secret password "card supplies secret password check" 3ds says "ok very well come on in"....now that nintendo knows that this has been cracked they just look for inconsistencies, this can be various thing....so lets just say they notice the fake card takes 2 seconds to reply with the password, and real card reply within 1 second, all they need to do in that case is change the verification to only accept the password if its given within 1 second of asking

again just a general idea of how they can improve their existing verification in a way that still works for all existing cards but effectively blocks the fakes as they aren't quick enough

I don't think you understand what I meant. Taking your analogy, as far as I know,

If Nintendo changes the "password"/looks for inconsistencies, They would have to do more than just a software update.

See every retail cart is pre-programmed with the current "password" per se, So hardware-wise, Nintendo can't just go and update the password without rendering current carts inoperable. They'd have to pre-program a new "password" onto new "carts". This was the issue they had thought they addressed with the 3DS after the NDS piracy mishap.

If you think that they could just use software via game updates to give a new password to the retail cart, heck even Sky3DS enables online features so this isn't possible.

tl;dr, retail cart is a lock that cannot be changed without changing the lock itself. Once you have the key (How I assume Sky3DS' exploit works [spoofing a retail cart]) The only way to make the key not work is by changing the lock in it's entirety.

Disclaimer: This is what I know. If it's wrong, fix me.

Arras · Dec 12, 2014

Arithmatics said:
I don't think you understand what I meant. Taking your analogy, as far as I know,

If Nintendo changes the "password"/looks for inconsistencies, They would have to do more than just a software update.

See every retail cart is pre-programmed with the current "password" per se, So hardware-wise, Nintendo can't just go and update the password without rendering current carts inoperable. They'd have to pre-program a new "password" onto new "carts". This was the issue they had thought they addressed with the 3DS after the NDS piracy mishap.

If you think that they could just use software via game updates to give a new password to the retail cart, heck even Sky3DS enables online features so this isn't possible.

tl;dr, retail cart is a lock that cannot be changed without changing the lock itself. Once you have the key (How I assume Sky3DS' exploit works [spoofing a retail cart]) The only way to make the key not work is by changing the lock in it's entirety.

Disclaimer: This is what I know. If it's wrong, fix me.

This is roughly what people thought about the PS3. Keys were found, old games used old keys, so it couldn't be changed without breaking older games. Then Sony patched it within a few weeks, changed the keys and used a big whitelist to make sure old games still worked or something (I forgot how it really works).

tony_2018 · Dec 12, 2014

gamesquest1 said:
no updating and refining their verification to add additional checks wouldnt mean all existing games are useless, think of it like this currently 3ds says "hello are you NDS or 3DS card?", card replies its type, next it says "ok so whats the secret password "card supplies secret password check" 3ds says "ok very well come on in"....now that nintendo knows that this has been cracked they just look for inconsistencies, this can be various thing....so lets just say they notice the fake card takes 2 seconds to reply with the password, and real card reply within 1 second, all they need to do in that case is change the verification to only accept the password if its given within 1 second of asking

again just a general idea of how they can improve their existing verification in a way that still works for all existing cards but effectively blocks the fakes as they aren't quick enough

Yup makes sense.

Arithmatics · Dec 12, 2014

Arras said:
This is roughly what people thought about the PS3. Keys were found, old games used old keys, so it couldn't be changed without breaking older games. Then Sony patched it within a few weeks, changed the keys and used a big whitelist to make sure old games still worked or something (I forgot how it really works).

taken from website

The console could be manufactured with new, secure keys, and a whitelist of existing software could ensure existing games would be recognised by new security architecture, but both measures would be costly and such expense would be unwelcome just six months after the PS3 began to turn a profit.

The console could be manufactured. As in a new type of cart could be manufactured

gamesquest1 · Dec 12, 2014

Arithmatics said:
I don't think you understand what I meant. Taking your analogy, as far as I know,

If Nintendo changes the "password"/looks for inconsistencies, They would have to do more than just a software update.

See every retail cart is pre-programmed with the current "password" per se, So hardware-wise, Nintendo can't just go and update the password without rendering current carts inoperable. They'd have to pre-program a new "password" onto new "carts". This was the issue they had thought they addressed with the 3DS after the NDS piracy mishap.

If you think that they could just use software via game updates to give a new password to the retail cart, heck even Sky3DS enables online features so this isn't possible.

tl;dr, retail cart is a lock that cannot be changed without changing the lock itself. Once you have the key (How I assume Sky3DS' exploit works [spoofing a retail cart]) The only way to make the key not work is by changing the lock in it's entirety.

Disclaimer: This is what I know. If it's wrong, fix me.

no the point being is not changing anything, its just being much more strict with how they accept the data....like in my example they may never of been bothered how long it takes for the game card to answer the "what is the password".....but now if they notice that these is a difference in the time a real game and a fake card take to respond they can block based on the time to respond.....see nothing new added to the game/cart but still the same end result, fakes blocked genuine cards pass

that being said without a newer revision of the whole process which would kinda break older game compatibility (or at least leave the whole back catalog open to pirating) all they can do is try tighten the checks and hope the sky3ds team cant compete in read times etc, i think there at least would be a "game of cat and mouse" rather than a "block and done" situation

Arithmatics · Dec 12, 2014

gamesquest1 said:
no the point being is not changing anything, its just being much more strict with how they accept the data....like in my example they may never of been bothered how long it takes for the game card to answer the "what is the password".....but now if they notice that these is a difference in the time a real game and a fake card take to respond they can block based on the time to respond.....see nothing new added to the game/cart but still the same end result, fakes block genuine cards pass

Ahhh okay got it. So theoretically then. but what if there's next to no lag in response time?. Nintendo's problem to figure out.

This completely makes sense. If Nintendo figured it out and added it to 9.5, Sky3DS is dead.

Arras · Dec 12, 2014

Arithmatics said:
taken from a news http://www.edge-online.com/news/ps3-hacked-wide-open/

The console could be manufactured. As in a new type of cart could be manufactured

Yes, that is a thing they COULD have done. However, after that post was made, they simply released a software update that changed the keys, even on older consoles.

As to the 3DS thing, as long as there's a detectable difference, it can be blocked. Like the one DSi firmware that blocked nearly all existing flash carts because it actually checked the save hardware or something.

Arithmatics · Dec 12, 2014

Arras said:
Yes, that is a thing they COULD have done. However, after that post was made, they simply released a software update that changed the keys, even on older consoles.

As to the 3DS thing, as long as there's a detectable difference, it can be blocked. Like the one DSi firmware that blocked nearly all existing flash carts because it actually checked the save hardware or something.

Fair enough. I also found this

koji2009 said:
If you're wondering how old games that used the old key can still play on the PS3, well sony has this wonderful little whitelist that basically says "These are the only software that can run with the old key!". The games are listed with SHA hash to confirm they are indeed the real deal.

which renders my argument null

gamesquest1 · Dec 12, 2014

Arithmatics said:
Ahhh okay got it. So theoretically then. but what if there's next to no lag in response time?. Nintendo's problem to figure out.

This completely makes sense. If Nintendo figured it out and added it to 9.5, Sky3DS is dead.

yeah i added a little bit extra to my post, but now the card authentication is "cracked" it will be pretty hard to lock it down permanently unless there is stuff they can genuinely lock down to 100% perfect cart behavior only, but knowing sky3ds each time they get blocked (if it does happen) they will probably release a new revision....which would get annoying

Deleted User · Dec 12, 2014

Shame Sky3DS is terrible.
I mean, it's cool that it doesn't have to worry about firmware as much as Gateway, but that's literally all it has going for it. Everything else Gateway does far better.

Arithmatics · Dec 12, 2014

warmijwilfaain said:
Shame Sky3DS is terrible.
I mean, it's cool that it doesn't have to worry about firmware as much as Gateway, but that's literally all it has going for it. Everything else Gateway does far better.

yeah. then again i guess it's a good thing the exploit isn't documented so it's all chance now. sooner or later but then again maybe never

garbanzox · Dec 12, 2014

warmijwilfaain said:
Shame Sky3DS is terrible.
I mean, it's cool that it doesn't have to worry about firmware as much as Gateway, but that's literally all it has going for it. Everything else Gateway does far better.

You're so right, it's a terrible, terrible cart. I wish everyone understood. Maybe if we post that enough, we will change some minds. Gateway evangelism ftw!

ElYubiYubi · Dec 12, 2014

Xenon Hacks said:
No CIA support, No Homebrew Support, No online, Non updateable = No thankyou

You can play Online with no problems. No need of tricks like emunand, etc. The others are true. But let be honest the majority only care for Free games and Sky3DS is just Plug & Play and it look like, since it emulate a real cart, it cant be blocked or it will be so difficult for Nintendo.

Instead of update their old card what Gateway should have done was to release a new card. And who cares if they just copy Sky3DS' but add the other Gateway features. But once again Gateway got stuck on 9.0-9.2.

But yeah IF Nintendo block Sky3DS it will be forever cuz as far we know theres no way to update it.

Silentsurvivor · Dec 12, 2014

You guys can trash talk the sky3DS as much as you want, but the only thing keeping me from getting one is the price. It's way too expensive right now, that's about it.

Dezmond · Dec 12, 2014

garbanzox said:
You're so right, it's a terrible, terrible cart. I wish everyone understood. Maybe if we post that enough, we will change some minds. Gateway evangelism ftw!

Lol. I have to say it is quite entertaining to read. Neither card is the 'best' or anything because it all comes down to personal preferences. Gateway for people who want to have more features and Sky3DS if you just want to play 3DS games. Best is we have a choice to choose what we think suits our needs.

smasbros · Dec 16, 2014

I thought gateway GUYS would launch 2.7OMG for 9.2 systemNAND , but it's just for old card emuNAND,this making me so dispoint! There is no date for upgrade , I will be more dispoint.
Perhaps, I really want to consider getting the sky3ds to instead of it as my brother's Christmas gift.

ElYubiYubi · Dec 16, 2014

Anyone knows if Sky3DS works with PokeBank?

Arithmatics · Dec 16, 2014

smasbros said:
I thought gateway GUYS would launch 2.7OMG for 9.2 systemNAND , but it's just for old card emuNAND,this making me so dispoint! There is no date for upgrade , I will be more dispoint.
Perhaps, I really want to consider getting the sky3ds to instead of it as my brother's Christmas gift.

Just know that Sky3DS really is easy to block so the risk is surprisingly high

Hacking Sky3ds supports 3DS v9.4.0-21 with no game limit

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