Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

retKHAAAN

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Not "supporting" piracy as you say has significantly reduced the utility of his loader for absolutely everyone, regardless of their situation. How ever I've heard already from his defence team that clearly, the man didn't make the product for people to use, he simply developed it for himself and released it for fame and bragging rights. not sure why this is a good thing, as it just makes him an asshole instead of a moron.

ButtHert much? tueidj may be an asshole, but that has nothing to do with Devolution. Moron? Well, you can prove exactly how much of a moron he is when you release your GC backup loader...

It doesn't do what you want it to do? Use something else. How is this any different from any other piece of anything ever created? It's like arguing boxers, briefs, or free-ball...

This app is for the gamer who likes their junk held in place.
DML is for the au natural gamer who's not concerned about catching their junk in the zipper...
 
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Midna

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Not "supporting" piracy as you say has significantly reduced the utility of his loader for absolutely everyone, regardless of their situation. How ever I've heard already from his defence team that clearly, the man didn't make the product for people to use, he simply developed it for himself and released it for fame and bragging rights. not sure why this is a good thing, as it just makes him an asshole instead of a moron.

ButtHert much? tueidj may be an asshole, but that has nothing to do with Devolution. Moron? Well, you can prove exactly how much of a moron he is when you release your GC backup loader...
I literally stopped reading and closed my internet browser when i read this line. if I could hate you and all those like you to death, I would.
 

JohnnyBlaze1986

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Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?
Yes I understand the point of anti-piracy measures , but for a project such as this one it seems kind of odd for a few reasons.

Reasons to remove AP

1. The gamecube is old as hell .
2. Can you still buy new gamecube games from the store ? I don't know , but I don't think you can.
3. Will being able to play these old games on new hardware make you wanna go out and buy them ? I wouldn't think so.
4. Are they still releasing new titles for the gamecube ? I don't know
5. Removing the protection may actually get people to buy hardware they otherwise wouldn't.
6.Removing the disc check would mean that people with dead drives would be able to play GC games.
7.Removing the AP means that we will be able to play compressed GC games. This would be really useful considering that some games are really small and use only a small part of the disc. For instance, some games only have about 200 MB of data, so why force us to keep their isos in uncompressed forms, meaning that they will instead have a size of 1.3 GB (so they will contain useless data for the most part)?
8.People who lost or gave away their GC discs would be able to play their games
9.The same goes for people with scratched discs
10.We would be able to load modded games
11.We would be able to load other regions' versions of our games without having to import. This would be great for European people who want to play NTSC games, as that would give them many advantages (ie: being able to run games at 60 FPS rather than 50, at a higher resolution, and with interlaced video).
12.People would be able to play games that are no longer obtainable due to not being sold (and since those games aren't obtainable anymore, those people wouldn't have been able to pay money for them anyway, so it's not like their makers would have gained any money either way)
13.GC games are no longer produced and sold anyway. Buying a GC game these days means that you're buying a second-hand game, so it's not like their makers would make any money anyway.
14.Why use Devolution with its AP when DM serves the same purpose and doesn't have AP?
15.No need to wear out the Wii's drive producing clean rips for Devolution
16.People with newer Wiis that don't have GC compatibility and spit out GC discs would be able to play GC games using Devolution (after it gets updated to support Wiimotes and Classic Controllers)
17.It would be easy to move games between HDDs or partitions. With the AP, you have to re-validate every single game if you moved or copied your games folder to another HD or partition (or if you formated your partition).
18.People who already have dumps of GC games will not need to redundantly re-rip them in order to produce clean rips that Devolution would accept.


I was going to make a few of these points, but seeing the conversation on here, it would've included cussing and name calling and me looking like an asshole. Great job, Ericss! You said it WAY better than I would've been able to and more.....
 
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retKHAAAN

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Not "supporting" piracy as you say has significantly reduced the utility of his loader for absolutely everyone, regardless of their situation. How ever I've heard already from his defence team that clearly, the man didn't make the product for people to use, he simply developed it for himself and released it for fame and bragging rights. not sure why this is a good thing, as it just makes him an asshole instead of a moron.

ButtHert much? tueidj may be an asshole, but that has nothing to do with Devolution. Moron? Well, you can prove exactly how much of a moron he is when you release your GC backup loader...
I literally stopped reading and closed my internet browser when i read this line. if I could hate you and all those like you to death, I would.

So much anger over something so trivial... What is this world coming to?
 
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Midna

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Not "supporting" piracy as you say has significantly reduced the utility of his loader for absolutely everyone, regardless of their situation. How ever I've heard already from his defence team that clearly, the man didn't make the product for people to use, he simply developed it for himself and released it for fame and bragging rights. not sure why this is a good thing, as it just makes him an asshole instead of a moron.

ButtHert much? tueidj may be an asshole, but that has nothing to do with Devolution. Moron? Well, you can prove exactly how much of a moron he is when you release your GC backup loader...
I literally stopped reading and closed my internet browser when i read this line. if I could hate you and all those like you to death, I would.

So much anger over something so trivial... What is this world coming to?
Oh no, this has nothing to do with devolution. It has to do with you using Youtube-comment/Bioware style argumentative fallacies.
 

pyromaniac123

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I feel things are getting tense in here, so here is a picture of a kitten

kitten.jpg
 
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Oh no, this has nothing to do with devolution. It has to do with you using Youtube-comment/Bioware style argumentative fallacies.
It's not a fallicy given that the object mentioned (the backup loader) is actually the object in question, and the skill mentioned (the ability to write one) is actually the skill posed.
 
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Midna

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Oh no, this has nothing to do with devolution. It has to do with you using Youtube-comment/Bioware style argumentative fallacies.
It's not a fallicy given that the object mentioned (the backup loader) is actually the object in question, and the skill mentioned (the ability to write one) is actually the skill posed.
The skill mentioned was not the ability to write one. The skill mentioned was logical reasoning in deciding whether or not to cripple your own projects
Besides, I didn't call him a moron, I called him an asshole, and not in fact a moron as he would first appear.

"You can't criticise if you can't do better" is a fallacy 99% of the time. This time included.
 

JohnnyBlaze1986

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BTW, not to add fuel to the fire, but something to think about. You pro-AP guys say to go out and get the GameCube games from Gamestop right? What's the point? Nintendo makes NO money from used game sales, and that's all GameStop has, USED titles. Name ONE store that carries NEW GameCube games that Nintendo ACTUALLY makes money off of? You can't, can you? Either way, buying GameCube games from a retailer now or piracy, the result is the same: NINTENDO MAKES NO MONEY FROM THE GAMECUBE ANYMORE! They even REMOVED GameCube support from the newer Wii's. If you wanted to worry so much about giving Nintendo your money and supporting them, you should've bought the games the first time around like I did when Nintendo was STILL MAKING THEM! I've been platinum status EVERY YEAR for Club Nintendo since it launched. You can't do that unless you buy a CRAP LOAD of Wii, DS, and 3DS titles. I support Nintendo. If I like the game, I buy it new. But facts are facts, they make NO MONEY off the Gamecube whatsoever!!!!

So, as far as I'm concerned, the arguments of piracy for a dead console is USELESS. Hate me if you want. Burn me if you must. But, it's the truth and the truth HURTS!
 
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shamiko_

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It would only be fair for the time Devolution has been worked on to achieve the way GC are played on the wii for it to be released to the public with AP. Now someone will just have to spend some time cracking the AP for the challenge or whatever. tueidj hasn't asked anyone to donate to him to a(have it released to donators only) b( have donator only extras.)
 

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Pirating isn't illegal because the company doesn't make money (LOL), it's illegal (having the company not earning money (losing is the wrong word) is a side-effect juristically unrelated to this one), because you don't have the right do get an unlicensed copy. And this does not change when the support for the platform/game is dropped. This is valid as long as the company has the rights for them (15 or 25 years (can't remember exactly), unless re-newed). That is why you can legally download some old lucas art titles (no more restriction), but not Nintendo titles.
 
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retKHAAAN

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Oh no, this has nothing to do with devolution. It has to do with you using Youtube-comment/Bioware style argumentative fallacies.
It's not a fallicy given that the object mentioned (the backup loader) is actually the object in question, and the skill mentioned (the ability to write one) is actually the skill posed.
The skill mentioned was not the ability to write one. The skill mentioned was logical reasoning in deciding whether or not to cripple your own projects
Besides, I didn't call him a moron, I called him an asshole, and not in fact a moron as he would first appear.

"You can't criticise if you can't do better" is a fallacy 99% of the time. This time included.

It seems to me that tueidj created a loader for people who want to play backups of the games they own from a HDD or SD card. How exactly is this backup loader crippled? Are you upset that you were not the target audience? Did you pay cash money for this "defective" product? Are you or anyone else obligated to use this product? Are you upset that Tampax focuses most of their ads during daytime television rather than during American Ninja Warrior? Should all applications on all platforms be accessible/useful to all users?

How about some actual argumentative fallacies?
- All people who use backup loaders are pirates, therefore, all backup loaders should make piracy as easy as possible.
- tueidj added AP because he is an asshole
- Every other backup loader is AP free, why change now?
- There is no other viable option for loading GC backups




@JohnnyBlaze1986 (Please tell me that isn't the year you were born in your username...)
It isn't about paying Nintendo
It's about legally owning the content.
The resale of copyrighted physical media is legal
The distribution of copies of said media is not.
 
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Midna

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It seems to me that tueidj created a loader for people who want to play backups of the games they own from a HDD or SD card. How exactly is this backup loader crippled? Are you upset that you were not the target audience? Did you pay cash money for this "defective" product? Are you or anyone else obligated to use this product? Are you upset that Tampax focuses most of their ads during daytime television rather than during American Ninja Warrior? Should all applications on all platforms be accessible/useful to all users?

How about some actual argumentative fallacies?
- All people who use backup loaders are pirates, therefore, all backup loaders should make piracy as easy as possible.
- tueidj added AP because he is an asshole
- Every other backup loader is AP free, why change now?
- There is no other viable option for loading GC backups
...Those aren't fallacies. I'm not sure you know what the word means.
None of these even even contain fallacies.

The first is a backwards conclusion and doesn't take into account that there are numerous problems with this AP system which prevents many people from using the loader at all, and everyone from using it for certain legitimate and useful purposes.
The second is a subjective statement.
There's nothing wrong with the third, though it is posing a question, the answer to which is probably "because he wanted to".
Fourth is just wrong, but that's not what a logical fallacy is.

Geez, the real conundrum here is why did I even bother thinking about that
 

Devin

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My main point wasn't to buy the games. I'm saying you have to roll with the punches. He put AP on his USB Loader, and that's not going to change any time soon most likely. Heck if you can change his mind, great. But if not, there are other ways to bypass not being able to use it besides bickering on a Forum. Disc drives for the Wii go for $30 on Amazon. Which isn't bad for being able to play a nice selection of Gamecube games. As for not owning, or wanting to buy games.Gamefly has a membership of $15.95 a month. Surprisingly BlockBuster is still around somewhere.

We play with the cards we are dealt with gentlemen. So the choices are;

Rent/Buy Games to use.
Fix disc drive.
Try to break the AP.
Continue to complain to the developer here, and hope it change his mind about implementing AP in the next release.
Don't buy the new Wii. If you did, I assume you have no want for gamecube games.
 
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g4jek8j54

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BTW, not to add fuel to the fire, but something to think about. You pro-AP guys say to go out and get the GameCube games from Gamestop right? What's the point? Nintendo makes NO money from used game sales, and that's all GameStop has, USED titles. Name ONE store that carries NEW GameCube games that Nintendo ACTUALLY makes money off of? You can't, can you? Either way, buying GameCube games from a retailer now or piracy, the result is the same: NINTENDO MAKES NO MONEY FROM THE GAMECUBE ANYMORE! They even REMOVED GameCube support from the newer Wii's. If you wanted to worry so much about giving Nintendo your money and supporting them, you should've bought the games the first time around like I did when Nintendo was STILL MAKING THEM! I've been platinum status EVERY YEAR for Club Nintendo since it launched. You can't do that unless you buy a CRAP LOAD of Wii, DS, and 3DS titles. I support Nintendo. If I like the game, I buy it new. But facts are facts, they make NO MONEY off the Gamecube whatsoever!!!!

So, as far as I'm concerned, the arguments of piracy for a dead console is USELESS. Hate me if you want. Burn me if you must. But, it's the truth and the truth HURTS!

Honestly, I can't say that I have seen many "pro-AP guys" in this thread. Most people siding with tueidj's decision have simply said that he is free to design his program however he wants. We don't know his true reasons for adding it, and honestly, it's irrelevant. As I said on the second page of this thread, he developed this for free in his spare time, and is not obligated to do anything for us. There are some complaints that, in my opinion, could be legitimate (like claims of a broken disc drive, and newer Wii consoles that, if I am reading correctly, do not read or accept GameCube discs). However, tueidj has said that he plans to add support for Wii consoles that cannot read GameCube discs. If/when he does that, I'm guessing that people with broken disc drives will be able to use the same method.

By the way, some of you seem to be really upset over this. If you want to pirate GameCube games, or you have a broken disc drive, then you can still use DIOS-MIOS. Currently, there isn't anything major that Devolution can do that DIOS-MIOS can't. It just seems to me that getting mad over this is pointless. If it bothers you that much, use the other option, which does not have such protection in place.
 
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retKHAAAN

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It seems to me that tueidj created a loader for people who want to play backups of the games they own from a HDD or SD card. How exactly is this backup loader crippled? Are you upset that you were not the target audience? Did you pay cash money for this "defective" product? Are you or anyone else obligated to use this product? Are you upset that Tampax focuses most of their ads during daytime television rather than during American Ninja Warrior? Should all applications on all platforms be accessible/useful to all users?

How about some actual argumentative fallacies?
- All people who use backup loaders are pirates, therefore, all backup loaders should make piracy as easy as possible.
- tueidj added AP because he is an asshole
- Every other backup loader is AP free, why change now?
- There is no other viable option for loading GC backups
...Those aren't fallacies. I'm not sure you know what the word means.
None of these even even contain fallacies.

The first is a backwards conclusion and doesn't take into account that there are numerous problems with this AP system which prevents many people from using the loader at all, and everyone from using it for certain legitimate and useful purposes.
The second is a subjective statement.
There's nothing wrong with the third, though it is posing a question, the answer to which is probably "because he wanted to".
Fourth is just wrong, but that's not what a logical fallacy is.

Geez, the real conundrum here is why did I even bother thinking about that

A fallacy is an error in reasoning often due to a misconception or a presumption. Are you sure you know what a fallacy is?
 

JohnnyBlaze1986

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Oh no, this has nothing to do with devolution. It has to do with you using Youtube-comment/Bioware style argumentative fallacies.
It's not a fallicy given that the object mentioned (the backup loader) is actually the object in question, and the skill mentioned (the ability to write one) is actually the skill posed.
The skill mentioned was not the ability to write one. The skill mentioned was logical reasoning in deciding whether or not to cripple your own projects
Besides, I didn't call him a moron, I called him an asshole, and not in fact a moron as he would first appear.

"You can't criticise if you can't do better" is a fallacy 99% of the time. This time included.

It seems to me that tueidj created a loader for people who want to play backups of the games they own from a HDD or SD card. How exactly is this backup loader crippled? Are you upset that you were not the target audience? Did you pay cash money for this "defective" product? Are you or anyone else obligated to use this product? Are you upset that Tampax focuses most of their ads during daytime television rather than during American Ninja Warrior? Should all applications on all platforms be accessible/useful to all users?

How about some actual argumentative fallacies?
- All people who use backup loaders are pirates, therefore, all backup loaders should make piracy as easy as possible.
- tueidj added AP because he is an asshole
- Every other backup loader is AP free, why change now?
- There is no other viable option for loading GC backups




@JohnnyBlaze1986 (Please tell me that isn't the year you were born in your username...)
It isn't about paying Nintendo
It's about legally owning the content.
The resale of copyrighted physical media is legal
The distribution of copies of said media is not.

Yes, it is and what the hell does that have to do with this discussion? I own all of my games and only really play roms for an English patch. However, I'm from the generation when if you bought something, you could do whatever you wanted with it. About your argument for the Gamecube, people make flash carts for the Genesis, SNES, and N64. Nintendo and Sega still make money from Virtual Console releases of these games. You don't see THEM suing KRIKzz or Stone Age Gamer for selling the carts, BECAUSE THE FRIGGIN SYSTEMS ARE DEAD! If the use of the item was so important to him, he should have NEVER RELEASED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE! You want morals, join a missionary. Either go all the way, or forget it. If you release it to the community, it's THEIRS to do what they want with it. You want to protect your interests? COPYRIGHT YOUR PROGRAM! I'd LOVE to see him try. Copyrighting a homebrew GameCube loader? He'd get laughed out of the Copyright Office. I'm tired of people trying to grasp for straws to try to make their points. Mine have actual MERIT and COMMON SENSE. But, this generation doesn't have any common sense, so go figure....
 
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Midna

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It seems to me that tueidj created a loader for people who want to play backups of the games they own from a HDD or SD card. How exactly is this backup loader crippled? Are you upset that you were not the target audience? Did you pay cash money for this "defective" product? Are you or anyone else obligated to use this product? Are you upset that Tampax focuses most of their ads during daytime television rather than during American Ninja Warrior? Should all applications on all platforms be accessible/useful to all users?

How about some actual argumentative fallacies?
- All people who use backup loaders are pirates, therefore, all backup loaders should make piracy as easy as possible.
- tueidj added AP because he is an asshole
- Every other backup loader is AP free, why change now?
- There is no other viable option for loading GC backups
...Those aren't fallacies. I'm not sure you know what the word means.
None of these even even contain fallacies.

The first is a backwards conclusion and doesn't take into account that there are numerous problems with this AP system which prevents many people from using the loader at all, and everyone from using it for certain legitimate and useful purposes.
The second is a subjective statement.
There's nothing wrong with the third, though it is posing a question, the answer to which is probably "because he wanted to".
Fourth is just wrong, but that's not what a logical fallacy is.

Geez, the real conundrum here is why did I even bother thinking about that

A fallacy is an error in reasoning often due to a misconception or a presumption. Are you sure you know what a fallacy is?
Yes, and statements are not errors. Statements contain errors.
if I assume you made a typo or something, I'm left with one statement that maybe could be considered fallacious, because it contains an invalid conclusion.
And that is basically the only one that no one on the site has actually said.
 

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Name ONE store that carries NEW GameCube games that Nintendo ACTUALLY makes money off of? You can't, can you?
No you can't. Nintendo does not get a penny if someone else sells a game. USED or NEW. GC or WII.
The seller gets it, not Nintendo.
Nintendo sells to wholesale merchants and thats it.
After that they don't see money for that game disc ever again.
They are out of the picture before that box even hit the shelf.
 
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wiismodrome

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FWIW, so far two of the retail games that I've ripped with CleanRip (XGIII, Rogue Leader) will not authorize due to Devolution's AP. Both discs are in good condition and the hashes check out. Just out of curiosity, I deleted and reinstalled Devolution and could not re-authorize a third game which had worked previously. I'd say that this represents a significant problem....
 

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