Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[Hielkenator]

Car manufacturers create vehicles that can be used for transportation, but there's nothing stopping somebody from using a vehicle to mow down pedestrians, but you don't see a ceasing of car production; that would cut off the people who use cars for legitimate purposes.

If there was some way to prevent cars being used for that, while still allowing cars to be used, I am fairly confident that such a mechanism would be implemented. In this case, there IS a method for preventing use of Devolution for what the author doesn't want (i.e. piracy), and that method is AP, and so it is implemented.

His AP is a joke. Anybody can "lend" a game from a friend. He only thought of Internet piracy.
For people interested in Gamecube, this will not be hard.
And to be honest, how many great gamecube games are there anyway? Defeats the purpose somewhat in my opinion.

For people with older wii's it's probably easy to verify their burned backups, anyway.

You know that people can do the same thing with the other GC backup loaders, rent a game, back it up and then send it back, right....?

Only people with older wii's can load burned backups, now people with newer wii's can do this also.
And there's Dios Mios. So yes, Ap is not that hard to circumvent.

 

[the_randomizer]

C'mon, he did not released this as a personal crusade against piracy, otherwise as you figured yourself he wouldn't have release anything at all, would be simpler that way.

He simply added AP to make his application not valuable to pirate because he does not want to support (as in making easier) piracy, why is it so hard to understand this is different from directly fighting against piracy, for which he obviously does not give a fuck ?

Well he made it easier by providing cleanrip 1.5 and devolution did'nt he?
But I agree it's a great achievement.

I thought many people couldn't use Clean Rip due to the infamous "motor stop error" crap.

If people solve audio streaming not being on Dios Mios, it will be another great breakthrough. Pretty sure it's impossible.

 

[Hielkenator]

1. he wanted to develop this kind of app because this is fun, challenging, whatever
2. he does not want to support the same crap as other backup loaders
3. he had to find a compromise between mass piracy and usability => AP that requires you to insert original disc only once

It's really not hard to understand once you accept the fact that everything is about compromises and that different people can have different logical way of thinking and goals.
At the end, it's his choice and telling him his logic is flawed is basically insulting his intelligence because he obviously knows that his solution won't make piracy disappear.

Agreed, that al I was trying to say, without insulting him that is. But he should also know people aren't stupid or dumber than him.
No reason to put him on a pedestool, he provided both measures. Backup loading via usb, and AP for that same thing.

---

 

[Devin]

I've read through a bit of these replies, and I see the issues here. The developer implemented AP on his Gamecube USB Loader, so that it requires you to rip the game yourself using an original copy. (At least once?) This is do to him either covering himself, or his dislike for piracy. The current arguments against the AP are for people buying new Wiis that they knew did not play Gamecube games, and yet bought them anyway. People with broken disc drives, which working drives tend to go for $30~ on Amazon if I'm looking at them correctly, and of course people who don't want to buy the games for either scarcity or pricing reasons. These claims may be true in some areas, like on eBAY games are crazy expensive for the Gamecube. I agree, but I walked into my local Gamestop a few weeks ago and bought all the Gamecube classics I wanted to play on my original Gamecube. (Pokemon XD: Gale Of Darkness; $15, Animal Crossing; $4.95, Sonic Adventure DX Edition; Free from the "Buy 2 games, get one free" deal, and The Matrix Disc 1, and 2; Free because the guy accidentally forgot to take it out of the games I brought up to the counter. Main point is it's not that hard to acquire Gamecube games. Gamestop has then for cheap (I ask the employees there to show me the box with the marked own Gamecube games, and they bring out the box with them.) Some of my friend's that have a Gamecube have some games that I can borrow. (Or that you can rip from your own friend's disc.) Heck, even some rental places online may have them. (Gamefly's like what? $11.)

Overall, I'm not saying I agree with this AP but you guys are totally helpless in terms of getting this USB Loader up, and running. ^-^

 

[trumpet-205]

It has been a very long time since I am back with gbatemp. Looking at AP measure, I can't help but to wonder,

* You cannot compress ISO. A lot of GC games have padded (garbage) data, without compressing, it takes up full size of 1.3 GB.
* No fan translation, undubing, hacking can be done on GC ISO.

 

[snakepliskin2334]

The hate in which this thread is turning is quite hilarious, some of you really sound like spoiled kids seeing "adults" moral decisions as unfair punitions lol

Some day you will eventually realize not everyone is thinking the same way as you and that homebrew devs don't owe you anything, bitching about unfair or bad decisions will lead to nothing but more frustration. You better use this time to learn how that thing works and how you could do something better ... or try to defeat that AP mechanism by studying it. Sure it takes time but even tuedj did not started as a programming genious...

my point made someone else feels the same way god damn !!!! and i thought i was the only one

 

[kupo3000]

It has been a very long time since I am back with gbatemp. Looking at AP measure, I can't help but to wonder,

* You cannot compress ISO. A lot of GC games have padded (garbage) data, without compressing, it takes up full size of 1.3 GB.
* No fan translation, undubing, hacking can be done on GC ISO.

Recently downloaded Skies of Arcadia Legends Undub and it's useless on Devolution. Even though I got the original NTSC disc the verification process still fails.

 

[the_randomizer]

It has been a very long time since I am back with gbatemp. Looking at AP measure, I can't help but to wonder,



* You cannot compress ISO. A lot of GC games have padded (garbage) data, without compressing, it takes up full size of 1.3 GB.

* No fan translation, undubing, hacking can be done on GC ISO.

Recently downloaded Skies of Arcadia Legends Undub and it's useless on Devolution. Even though I got the original NTSC disc the verification process still fails.

Skies of Arcadia works fine on Dios Mios, use that instead.

And for those moaning about GCN image size, 1.3GB isn't that big of a deal, especially on large HDD. If people want full compatibility, leave the measly 1.3GB file uncompressed. And it is true that peoples' hard drives have been getting corrupted from using Devolution?

 

[chop]

It would be great if this didn't have AP as I'd be able to (eventually) use a classic controllers with my backup's. It does have AP so I can't. Life is all about learning to deal with disappointment.

 

[lovewiibrew]

Has anyone with an older wii tried using a burned backup to verify? (Without a modchip)

 

[Midna]

The single most useful feature planned for the entire project (gamecube games on new Wiis) and he shit all over it with the words "I'll figure it out later".

Please link me to where tueidj said he'd "figure it out later" in reference to verifying games on Wiis without GC compatibility. My assumption would be he has a plan already as to how that will work, or at least a vague idea. (It seems logical to assume he would have thought about how it would be implemented on those consoles when writing the AP code, to make sure it'll be compatible).

First Devolution thread, in reference to running GC on new Wiis that obviously wouldn't work with his antipiracy. I can't be arsed to find it because that thread is lkike 40 pages long, but that was hardly the point of my post.

 

[Midna]

1. he wanted to develop this kind of app because this is fun, challenging, whatever
2. he does not want to support the same crap as other backup loaders
3. he had to find a compromise between mass piracy and usability => AP that requires you to insert original disc only once

It's really not hard to understand once you accept the fact that everything is about compromises and that different people can have different logical way of thinking and goals than what you assume they have.
At the end, it's his choice and telling him his logic is flawed is basically insulting his intelligence because he obviously knows that his solution won't make piracy disappear.

Not "supporting" piracy as you say has significantly reduced the utility of his loader for absolutely everyone, regardless of their situation. How ever I've heard already from his defence team that clearly, the man didn't make the product for people to use, he simply developed it for himself and released it for fame and bragging rights. not sure why this is a good thing, as it just makes him an asshole instead of a moron.

 

[kupo3000]

Has anyone with an older wii tried using a burned backup to verify? (Without a modchip)

Yea, tried with an Eternal Darkness backup.
Even ripped with CleanRip 1.0.5, but the verification didn't work.

 

[FireGrey]

Has the dev pointed out any indications on how he would feel if someone edited his software to remove the Anti-Piracy?

 

[Minox]

I fail to see the issue with having these checks implemented in this application. No one is forcing you to use it so if it doesn't fit your purpose then just move on and find an alternate solution that does fit your purpose. tueidj has no obligation whatsoever to please everyone, so give him a break will ya.

 

[tbgtbg]

I've read through a bit of these replies, and I see the issues here. The developer implemented AP on his Gamecube USB Loader, so that it requires you to rip the game yourself using an original copy. (At least once?) This is do to him either covering himself, or his dislike for piracy. The current arguments against the AP are for people buying new Wiis that they knew did not play Gamecube games, and yet bought them anyway. People with broken disc drives, which working drives tend to go for $30~ on Amazon if I'm looking at them correctly, and of course people who don't want to buy the games for either scarcity or pricing reasons. These claims may be true in some areas, like on eBAY games are crazy expensive for the Gamecube. I agree, but I walked into my local Gamestop a few weeks ago and bought all the Gamecube classics I wanted to play on my original Gamecube. (Pokemon XD: Gale Of Darkness; $15, Animal Crossing; $4.95, Sonic Adventure DX Edition; Free from the "Buy 2 games, get one free" deal, and The Matrix Disc 1, and 2; Free because the guy accidentally forgot to take it out of the games I brought up to the counter. Main point is it's not that hard to acquire Gamecube games. Gamestop has then for cheap (I ask the employees there to show me the box with the marked own Gamecube games, and they bring out the box with them.) Some of my friend's that have a Gamecube have some games that I can borrow. (Or that you can rip from your own friend's disc.) Heck, even some rental places online may have them. (Gamefly's like what? $11.)

Overall, I'm not saying I agree with this AP but you guys are totally helpless in terms of getting this USB Loader up, and running. ^-^

GS has stopped buying GC stuff though, so what they have now is it, once it's gone, that's it.

 

[Ace Overclocked]

Has anyone with an older wii tried using a burned backup to verify? (Without a modchip)

Yea, tried with an Eternal Darkness backup.
Even ripped with CleanRip 1.0.5, but the verification didn't work.

What about using darkcorp ?

 

[kupo3000]

Has anyone with an older wii tried using a burned backup to verify? (Without a modchip)

Yea, tried with an Eternal Darkness backup.
Even ripped with CleanRip 1.0.5, but the verification didn't work.

What about using darkcorp ?

Since Devolution is a stand alone homebrew app that doesn't rely that much on IOS (if at all), darkcorp wouldn't matter.

 

[Devin]

I've read through a bit of these replies, and I see the issues here. The developer implemented AP on his Gamecube USB Loader, so that it requires you to rip the game yourself using an original copy. (At least once?) This is do to him either covering himself, or his dislike for piracy. The current arguments against the AP are for people buying new Wiis that they knew did not play Gamecube games, and yet bought them anyway. People with broken disc drives, which working drives tend to go for $30~ on Amazon if I'm looking at them correctly, and of course people who don't want to buy the games for either scarcity or pricing reasons. These claims may be true in some areas, like on eBAY games are crazy expensive for the Gamecube. I agree, but I walked into my local Gamestop a few weeks ago and bought all the Gamecube classics I wanted to play on my original Gamecube. (Pokemon XD: Gale Of Darkness; $15, Animal Crossing; $4.95, Sonic Adventure DX Edition; Free from the "Buy 2 games, get one free" deal, and The Matrix Disc 1, and 2; Free because the guy accidentally forgot to take it out of the games I brought up to the counter. Main point is it's not that hard to acquire Gamecube games. Gamestop has then for cheap (I ask the employees there to show me the box with the marked own Gamecube games, and they bring out the box with them.) Some of my friend's that have a Gamecube have some games that I can borrow. (Or that you can rip from your own friend's disc.) Heck, even some rental places online may have them. (Gamefly's like what? $11.)

Overall, I'm not saying I agree with this AP but you guys are totally helpless in terms of getting this USB Loader up, and running. ^-^

GS has stopped buying GC stuff though, so what they have now is it, once it's gone, that's it.

True. Then everyone should go buy the games, before they are all gone. I checked, and Gamefly has a decent collection of gamecube games to rent.

 

[Rydian]

Please stop defending AP measures. They are meant for screwing customers, not for defending poor old companies which barely earn enough to feed their families.

Except that in this case there's no company involved (just an individual) and there's no money involved. This is FREE.

Again, it's not about proving anything to anyone. He just doesn't want his work being related to committing crimes. You may be comfortable with breaking the law, but he doesn't want to be a part of it.

No offence, but do you think usb loader gx, wiiflow, open ps2 loader, and all (i mean all) emulators on pc including dolphin are breaking the law (or being part of breaking the law) as they aren't doing the check devolution does?

Uh, dude, this is about the author and his morals.

"Well other people have different morals." - So what? That doesn't mean the author needs to follow suit.

If you don't want this AP then do something about it instead of crying in this thread. Don't you realize that you might as well talk to a wall?

1. Doing something about this in this site is prohibited. (Have a look at the closed topic)
2. How do you know, something isn't being done elsewhere?

I think this thread is a great place to see how people think about AP protections.

1 - That was overzealous, if talking about cracking the AP here is wrong, then so are all the topics talking about how to install custom firmware on the PSP, which comes with ISO drivers pre-installed and doesn't do any such verification (and is software that disables the AP in the OFW). Same could be said for threads on installing firmware/bootloader updates for flash carts, as they bypass the intent of Nintendo's AP and such.

2 - There's always the "Make your own loader without the AP" option.