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Sony Comes Clean- Personal Data Stolen
- Thread starter Livin in a box
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no cause killing ppl on cod is much more important...BloodyFlame said:777kidis777 said:Wow, so does anyone know a time PSN will be back on, or can estimate one?
The current situation is much more important than whether PSN will be back on or not.
Wintrale said:Meh, it's no big deal for me. I used a PayPal Top Up Card and those were all deactivated at the beginning of the month.
I really feel sorry for Sony, though... Hackers have been terrible with the PS3 ever since it first came out. Sony gives OtherOS, hackers try to crack it wide open and force Sony to take it away to protect the system. Hackers get pissed and hit the PS3 even harder, which culminates in that key being found. As if that wasn't enough, the hackers turned to PSN itself and ruined it for everyone. Now none of us can use our PS3s online, our personal information has been stolen -- ohwait, no. Sorry. Identity theft isn't stealing, I forgot. You still have the original, after all, so anyone copying it and using it themselves hasn't actually stolen anything. So it's perfectly fine.
Where was I? Oh yeah. Thank you, whoever out there decided to be a smart arse and ruin everything for the consumer. We owe you a lot. Like an penectomy.
Where to start- your entire post is loaded with misused terms and inaccuracies and I would encourage you to read up on the technical side of things as well as history and computer security in general. It will be long and boring but if you wish to be taken seriously in a thread (you are dangerously close to making a fool of yourself) such as this it looks like it will be something you need to do.
"Hackers have been terrible with the PS3 ever since it first came out"
They have now?- most of the stuff only really came to the fore in the last 12 months (considerably less than half of the PS3 lifetime). Granted there were a few things over the years but it mainly came to a head with some of the glitch attacks and later (more prominently) with the USB jailbreak. Now my memory might be hazy on occasion but that was only last year, this current round of stuff really kicked off with the 27C3 conference.
"Sony gives OtherOS, hackers try to crack it wide open and force Sony to take it away to protect the system"
That might be the present assumption but I will do a call for proof and cite the counter examples of the slim lacking such things in a timeframe that does not match up. Equally Sony managed to lock it down once before (see the early otheros graphics hack).
"As if that wasn't enough, the hackers turned to PSN itself and ruined it for everyone. Now none of us can use our PS3s online"
You seem to be confusing hackers with an amorphous mass of people- this is very bad form as hackers as previously mentioned are just people with a few choice skills (often quite varying skills too). Those that identify themselves as hackers (leaving aside the whole debate as to the definition of the term) quite often has a very well thought out plan for morals too and there will be certain activities and methodologies that they have no wish to partake in- I know I used it before in another thread but do have a look at the debate surround the timing of disclosure of security holes as it is a great example of this mindset.
Equally do not Sony share some of the blame- this is the real world with comes with real world rules and consequences- Sony have in the last few months been repeatedly demonstrated not to be keeping up with or paying enough heed to.
"Sorry. Identity theft isn't stealing, I forgot. You still have the original, after all, so anyone copying it and using it themselves hasn't actually stolen anything. So it's perfectly fine."
If this is some almost satirical dig at a rather weak pro piracy argument I applaud you, if it is not and you are again confusing terms then first I doubt anybody will claim such a thing or even has claimed such a thing in earnest as it were or could even justifiably do as such. The address, names, details and numbers for electronic payment cards are valuable data and although there is an element of it is only valuable if you know how to use it (see some of the broadsides against those on carding forums that have "thousands" of numbers and no idea how to do anything with them) few will try to understate the potential for bad present in such a situation as we now see.
777kidis777 said:Wow, so does anyone know a time PSN will be back on, or can estimate one?
Sony's probably thinking this:
"It will be up when it's up."
To elaborate, this is referring to the fact that the Slim was released without OtherOS at all, and this was before Geohot even announced his famous "hack" (which, BTW, was to re-add OtherOS support), and was before they removed it from the Fat models.FAST6191 said:
http://www.osnews.com/story/22073/Why_N
...im_Sony_AnswersThey said it was due to costs, not security.
Wintrale said:
And that's where I stopped reading. Why even talk about something you clearly know nothing about?
God, I always wondered why anti-piracy smear campaigns weren't going away ("This game is cancelled because of pirates! This system sucks because of pirates! Don't let your pirate friends use your 3DS or it'll get bricked! We're removing OtherOS because of pirates!") when they were all so easy to see through. Like, there's no way someone genuinely believed Sony removed OtherOS because of security concerns, no freaking way... but I guess I was wrong. Some people really are naive enough to fall for that.
Seriously, read a book. Introduce basic economic principles into your life. Be conscious of the truth behind what people are telling you. Uninformed, complacent, naive and stupid consumers are all just tools for corporations to sway public opinion and maximize profits. Nowadays all it takes is a couple buzzwords and you're in hook, line and sinker. Sad, really.
Didn't bother reading 9 pages.
Sony should have seen this coming. The people who hacked the ps3 have already stated that the customer's credit card information may be easily accessed and the hackers proved their point. Sony didn't bother listening and decided to go after them; believe me, I understand they're trying to protect their product but you can obviously tell that Sony does not care much about the customers unless we look like dollar signs to them.
Learn your lesson, Sony. Don't make your customers angry.
Sony should have seen this coming. The people who hacked the ps3 have already stated that the customer's credit card information may be easily accessed and the hackers proved their point. Sony didn't bother listening and decided to go after them; believe me, I understand they're trying to protect their product but you can obviously tell that Sony does not care much about the customers unless we look like dollar signs to them.
Learn your lesson, Sony. Don't make your customers angry.
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Source.Rydian said:Mr Hotz's original hack is widely believed to have led to Sony disabling features on the console. In January 2010, Mr Hotz claimed to have cracked the console.FAST6191 said:"Sony gives OtherOS, hackers try to crack it wide open and force Sony to take it away to protect the system"
That might be the present assumption but I will do a call for proof and cite the counter examples of the slim lacking such things in a timeframe that does not match up.To elaborate, this is referring to the fact that the Slim was released without OtherOS at all, and this was before Geohot even announced his famous "hack" (which, BTW, was to re-add OtherOS support), and was before they removed it from the Fat models.
http://www.osnews.com/story/22073/Why_N
They said it was due to costs, not security.
I believe they were referring to this:
QUOTE
Following his initial announcement, Sony released an update disabling a function, called OtherOS, that allowed gamers to install a version of Linux on their machines, thought to have been exploited by Mr Hotz.
Many saw it as a pre-emptive strike to guard against games piracy.
Mr Hotz never released the exploit and publicly said that he had stopped work on the console.
perhaps, the hacker(s) breached psn security to show everyone how bad the security of the ps3 really was. personally, I think they need to clean house at sony by getting rid of the entire ps3 engineering staff and ceo's responsible for some many PR blunders such as Jack Tretton.
FUCK! I don't know what to tell my dad, he used his credit card on my account once to buy Scott Pilgrim, I deleted the details off my account so is it safe or do I have to tell him to cancel the card?
omgitsmisha said:
People are gullible and cooperation exploits that to their advantages. That's 101 for them, not so much to the general populace. Wonder when the general populace will ever catch on to this...
Mmm give them a few decades, centuries, or dare I say millennium?
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I'm not quite sure I remember it correctly but I remember he originally made one that would tap into the hypervisor or something in the OtherOS and posted the video for proof on youtube and told everyone they needed OtherOS installed to use it.Rydian said:
Lol, this is hilarious and sums things up quite nicely:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/DrF...thComputers.gif
(For slow internet connections: it's a 9MB gif!)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/DrF...thComputers.gif
(For slow internet connections: it's a 9MB gif!)
Tales will be sung
for generation to come
of the woe and war
which Sony has done.
I would cancel my card if I ever used it on the psn. Cancelling a credit cards is no big deal, everything is streamlined. Tell your bank you want it cancelled, they ask why then say alright, then you get a new card in the mail about a week later.
EDIT: If there is even a chance that one of my credit cards is compromised I just get a new one, then I can sleep a lot easier at night.
for generation to come
of the woe and war
which Sony has done.
Just tell him the situation matter of fact and let him decide what to do. Better yet you could point at one of the numerous news reports that have been released.gifi4 said:
I would cancel my card if I ever used it on the psn. Cancelling a credit cards is no big deal, everything is streamlined. Tell your bank you want it cancelled, they ask why then say alright, then you get a new card in the mail about a week later.
EDIT: If there is even a chance that one of my credit cards is compromised I just get a new one, then I can sleep a lot easier at night.
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Ok I know everyone is saying about credit card information being stolen but have you guys checked about what The Moderator at PSX-Scene has said?
"Ok, I've seen a bunch of speculation of why people think PSN is down, and I thought I should just post what the community knows in comparison to what Sony is telling everyone. The truth is, there was a new CFW (custom firmware) released known as Rebug (http://rebug.me ). It essentially turns a retail console into a dev console (not
fully, but gives you a lot of the same options that usually dev's only have access to). Anyway, this new CFW was quickly figured out by 3rd parties (not Rebug) to give CFW users access to the PSN network again via the dev networks. With a little manipulation of the URL's through a proxy server you could get your hacked console back online. Not that big of a deal, right? Well, it also turns out that some people over at NGU found out that you could provide fake CC# info and the authenticity of the information was never checked as you were on Sony's private developer PSN network (essentially a network that Sony trusted). What happened next was extreme piracy of PSN content. Sony realizing the issue here shut down the network. Now, before you go freaking out about the latest information posted about Kotaku, no ones personal information was accessible via this hack. Not to say they couldn't get it, but no one is admitting to it being available. Anyway, that's the real reason for the PSN downtime. Sony is now rebuilding all of it's PSN servers to be more secure and (hopefully) make sure the CFW users cannot get online anymore.
Edit #1: To those of you saying that this is speculation, you are correct. But, it is speculation based on a lot of facts and the outcome seems to make the most sense.
Rebug was released on 3/31/11.
First guides of how to use the dev network to get back on COD games on 4/3/11.
Word of NGU users finding a way to pirate PSN content via the dev networks on 4/7/11 (basing this on posts I had to delete on the website. Update: Users have pointed out to me that these posts existed on NGU as of 4/2/11).
PSN goes down on 4/20/11
Now, you can believe Sony's PR team which has kept you completely in the dark, or you can see the list of events above and come to your own conclusion. Now, this isn't the first time Sony has fought back against the PS3 modders from getting on PSN. A couple of months ago we had a utility called f*ckPSN that changed the necessary header information that was being sent to Sony to allow modified consoles back online. We were able to use it for about a month. Then came the new TOS, the mass e-mail to PS3 customers, and software update 3.56 and 3.60. So, once again, yes this is all speculation, but it is speculation based on previous actions and known facts.
Edit #2: Mathieulh just mentioned that he has been in contact with someone that has official access to the SCE devnet servers and it was posted to them today that only 3.60+ debug firmwares will be allowed on the dev network anymore. All earlier versions will be cut. If you want to retain your access you need to contact Sony and upgrade to 3.60 debug firmware.
Edit #3: Ok, it looks like some various news sites have picked up this story and taken it out of context. Once again, this is all speculation and information gathered from various devs in the PS3 scene. It might very well not be the real reason PSN is down, but as the timeline fits, it's a reasonable explanation. Now, as to Rebug directly allowing this to happen, that's not the case at all. Different CFW's have had access to the dev network the whole time. This is not new news for people in the PS3 scene. It's what people have figured out what to do with the said network that has caused all the recent issues. Saying that Rebug is what did this is like saying a gun manufacturer is responsible for every death that happens with a gun.
'
Edit #4: Looks like Sony is finally admitting that people have been able to get into their network and users personal info has possibly be compromised. See: Official Sony Blog for the latest update"
From: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/gx...necom_the_real/
EDIT: Not saying I don't believe this but it's a possibility
"Ok, I've seen a bunch of speculation of why people think PSN is down, and I thought I should just post what the community knows in comparison to what Sony is telling everyone. The truth is, there was a new CFW (custom firmware) released known as Rebug (http://rebug.me ). It essentially turns a retail console into a dev console (not
fully, but gives you a lot of the same options that usually dev's only have access to). Anyway, this new CFW was quickly figured out by 3rd parties (not Rebug) to give CFW users access to the PSN network again via the dev networks. With a little manipulation of the URL's through a proxy server you could get your hacked console back online. Not that big of a deal, right? Well, it also turns out that some people over at NGU found out that you could provide fake CC# info and the authenticity of the information was never checked as you were on Sony's private developer PSN network (essentially a network that Sony trusted). What happened next was extreme piracy of PSN content. Sony realizing the issue here shut down the network. Now, before you go freaking out about the latest information posted about Kotaku, no ones personal information was accessible via this hack. Not to say they couldn't get it, but no one is admitting to it being available. Anyway, that's the real reason for the PSN downtime. Sony is now rebuilding all of it's PSN servers to be more secure and (hopefully) make sure the CFW users cannot get online anymore.
Edit #1: To those of you saying that this is speculation, you are correct. But, it is speculation based on a lot of facts and the outcome seems to make the most sense.
Rebug was released on 3/31/11.
First guides of how to use the dev network to get back on COD games on 4/3/11.
Word of NGU users finding a way to pirate PSN content via the dev networks on 4/7/11 (basing this on posts I had to delete on the website. Update: Users have pointed out to me that these posts existed on NGU as of 4/2/11).
PSN goes down on 4/20/11
Now, you can believe Sony's PR team which has kept you completely in the dark, or you can see the list of events above and come to your own conclusion. Now, this isn't the first time Sony has fought back against the PS3 modders from getting on PSN. A couple of months ago we had a utility called f*ckPSN that changed the necessary header information that was being sent to Sony to allow modified consoles back online. We were able to use it for about a month. Then came the new TOS, the mass e-mail to PS3 customers, and software update 3.56 and 3.60. So, once again, yes this is all speculation, but it is speculation based on previous actions and known facts.
Edit #2: Mathieulh just mentioned that he has been in contact with someone that has official access to the SCE devnet servers and it was posted to them today that only 3.60+ debug firmwares will be allowed on the dev network anymore. All earlier versions will be cut. If you want to retain your access you need to contact Sony and upgrade to 3.60 debug firmware.
Edit #3: Ok, it looks like some various news sites have picked up this story and taken it out of context. Once again, this is all speculation and information gathered from various devs in the PS3 scene. It might very well not be the real reason PSN is down, but as the timeline fits, it's a reasonable explanation. Now, as to Rebug directly allowing this to happen, that's not the case at all. Different CFW's have had access to the dev network the whole time. This is not new news for people in the PS3 scene. It's what people have figured out what to do with the said network that has caused all the recent issues. Saying that Rebug is what did this is like saying a gun manufacturer is responsible for every death that happens with a gun.
'
Edit #4: Looks like Sony is finally admitting that people have been able to get into their network and users personal info has possibly be compromised. See: Official Sony Blog for the latest update"
From: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/gx...necom_the_real/
EDIT: Not saying I don't believe this but it's a possibility
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Also this happened beween the 16th-19th April. shame its take sony nearly 2 weeks to come clean. Also how the hell did sony not figure out automatically that someone was downloading a HUGE amount of data from thier servers!?
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