Leaders blame Russia-Europe pipeline leaks on sabotage (Nord Stream)

[mrdude]

Moral Nr. 1 is existence. The Ukraine war was preventable and is going to cost millions of additional starvation deaths, e.g. because the EU still does not allow Russian fertilizer exports to the 3rd world.

Russia let lots of grain ships leave one of the ports in Ukraine a few months back for 3rd world countries and the EU kept 97% of the grain for themselves, the EU is very corrupt and is nothing more than a protectionist racket.

 

[Xzi]

Moral Nr. 1 is existence.

And nobody was threatening Russia's existence. "We feel threatened by the very existence of NATO" is not a valid excuse for dropping the first bombs on and firing the first shots at Ukraine. If NATO had bombed targets inside of Russia before Russia went into Ukraine, then and only then would you maybe have a leg to stand on with this argument.

About Charlie Hebdo: You can either accept that Muslims hold their prophet more dear than their own parents or you can fight them till eternity. Most people understand this, which is why you, Xzi, do not dare publish a picture of him.

"My god is more valid than your god" as an excuse for war is a tale as old as time, and it's just as dumb now as it was in the middle ages. This same logic was used by Christian conservatives to attempt to justify the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, so perhaps you do align with them after all.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

And nobody was threatening Russia's existence.

The war threatens my existence. My existence is most precious to me. If you want to die for Ukraine, go fight there. Leave me out of it. Thanks.

"My god is more valid than your god" as an excuse for war is a tale as old as time, and it's just as dumb now as it was in the middle ages. This same logic was used by Christian conservatives to attempt to justify the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, so perhaps you do align with them after all.

Are you able to read? I AM ALWAYS WAS AGAINST THE INVASION OF IRAQ. I held my nose and voted for Schroeder because of it.

 

[mrdude]

And nobody was threatening Russia's existence.

Apart from an ever expanding NATO, which expanded all the way to Russia's doorstep - which Russia had been warning about for decades. Are you really that stupid that you can't comprehend this?

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Apart from an ever expanding NATO, which expanded all the way to Russia's doorstep - which Russia had been warning about for decades. Are you really that stupid that you can't comprehend this?

He thinks NATO is an defensive alliance and every country has the right to join any alliance they want. Except the Solomon islands near Australia which might welcome Chinese soldiers.
I think Russia needs to supply Mexico with long-range weapons to take back its territories. Crimea is forever Ukrainian. Then ... .

 

[Xzi]

The war threatens my existence.

No, it really doesn't. For that matter, your government views Russia's miscalculations as being beneficial to them, as China relies more on an economic form of imperialism rather than a military form of it.

Are you able to read? I AM ALWAYS WAS AGAINST THE INVASION OF IRAQ. I held my nose and voted for Schroeder because of it.

Right, but here you are flirting with the idea that waging "holy war" is acceptable so long as the opposition's words or ideas fly in the face of your beliefs. There is no justifying what happened with the extremism against Charlie Hebdo, just as there is no justifying unprovoked invasion and imperialism.

 

[Xzi]

Apart from an ever expanding NATO, which expanded all the way to Russia's doorstep - which Russia had been warning about for decades. Are you really that stupid that you can't comprehend this?

Actions cause reactions. Putin had been threatening Ukraine with invasion for months prior to when they had even begun to think about joining NATO. And the result of the invasion is that several more nations have now applied/been accepted for membership. Are you really so stupid that you didn't see that coming?

 

[mrdude]

Actions cause reactions.

Which is why Russia won't take it's pipeline being blown up laying down, I expect you'll see some retaliation sooner or later, so I don't expect you to whinge about it when it eventually happens.

 

[Xzi]

Which is why Russia won't take it's pipeline being blown up laying down, I expect you'll see some retaliation sooner or later, so I don't expect you to whinge about it when it eventually happens.

Ooh, mysterious unnamed "retaliation." What's Putin gonna do, launch a second draft that includes toddlers this time? I'm really shaking in my boots here.

You gotta be one of the only people left in the world still afraid of that paper tiger.

 

[mrdude]

Ooh, mysterious unnamed "retaliation." What's Putin gonna do, launch a second draft that includes toddlers this time? I'm really shaking in my boots here.

You'll be pissed off when your banking system collapses, or you have no internet or your energy sytem takes a hit - you might not be shaking in your boots, but you'll be not be joking about it either.

 

[Xzi]

You'll be pissed off when your banking system collapses, or you have no internet or your energy sytem takes a hit - you might not be shaking in your boots, but you'll be not be joking about it either.

Again, you might think Putin is a total dumbass, but I do not. If he can't handle the Ukrainian forces driving him out, he stands absolutely no chance against even a fraction of the US military. He will not give us a reason to enter into this conflict.

 

[sombrerosonic]

I'm really shaking in my boots here.

BOOBS???????

oh wait..... that says boots...... my bad

 

[Xzi]

BOOBS???????

oh wait..... that says boots...... my bad

If I ever get fat enough to grow manboobs, they will not be pretty. I have more hair on my chest than Austin Powers.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Right, but here you are flirting with the idea that waging "holy war" is acceptable so long as the opposition's words or ideas fly in the face of your beliefs. There is no justifying what happened with the extremism against Charlie Hebdo, just as there is no justifying unprovoked invasion and imperialism.

It´s not getting into your thick head. I´m not justifying it. I am explaining it.

I am not flirting with the idea of holy war. For fuck´s sake. It is you who wages holy wars around the world. There were LGBTQ awareness days in Afghanistan and a Goerge Floyd memorial.

 

[Xzi]

It´s not getting into your thick head. I´m not justifying it. I am explaining it.

I don't need poor excuses explained to me. It's a matter of whether you agree with them or not, and it seems to me you're implying that you do.

It is you who wages holy wars around the world.

It is the US, yes. I maintain a position that ALL imperialism is wrong, including my own country's. I actively protested against the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. You want to pretend it's fine as long as it's anybody but the US doing it, which makes you a hypocrite. If you want to change positions and denounce Putin's actions (aka war crimes), then I welcome that and won't hold it against you.

 

[mrdude]

Again, you might think Putin is a total dumbass, but I do not. If he can't handle the Ukrainian forces driving him out, he stands absolutely no chance against even a fraction of the US military. He will not give us a reason to enter into this conflict.

Didn't the 'poor farmers' in North Vietnam hear that, or hang on - wasn't it the uneducated Afghans? Well we can all see how that turned out, billions spent, graves litter those countries, the maimed returned home....how did the the US popultation benefit? - they never, all that happened was the people that sell weapons and services to the military got richer, and those with shares in those companies made themselves rich. The actual people doing the fighting - well all they did was lose something, their life, limbs, friends, time watching their kids grow up, their marriages etc. The people in those countries still live there and helped the Americans and the ones that thought America would "save them" have been left abandoned to their fates - many are now dead....so yeah! "America Fuck yeah!"

If you think USA selling weapons to Ukraine is for the benefit of Ukraine, then you are even dumber than I thought - all that's happening here is that people like Nancy Pelosi with shares in weapons companies and services companies are getting richer and you are paying for it all through your taxes.

If you don't think there's going to be any retaliation - well that's just wishfull thinking.

 

[sombrerosonic]

Wait..... you'll all yelling...... when dose the hugging and kissing happen...... IM WAITING

Oh yea to give extra beef to the thread, Why would russia want to destroy there own pipe line?

 

[Xzi]

If you think USA selling weapons to Ukraine is for the benefit of Ukraine, then you are even dumber than I thought - all that's happening here is that people like Nancy Pelosi with shares in weapons companies and services companies are getting richer and you are paying for it all through your taxes.

I'd be fully in favor of weapons manufacturers forgiving all of Ukraine's debt in the aftermath of this invasion. Now, we all know that's not gonna happen, but it's also clear that Ukraine would no longer exist as a country without the weapons assistance provided by the US. I cannot and will not accept the argument that we should've simply stood on the sidelines and watched the ethnic genocide of Ukrainians happen instead. The parallels to those who insisted we should've allowed the genocide of the Jews during WW2 are uncanny.

 

[Xzi]

Oh yea to give extra beef to the thread, Why would russia want to destroy there own pipe line?

Because even Russia's allies that share a border were beginning to sour on the Ukrainian invasion prior to that event. Putin needed a way to scapegoat the West, and for him, the pipeline was more leverage over Europe than it was a mutually beneficial arrangement.

I'm not saying I know for certain it was a false flag operation, but I'm not dismissing it outright as a possibility, either.

 

[mrdude]

I'd be fully in favor of weapons manufacturers forgiving all of Ukraine's debt in the aftermath of this invasion. Now, we all know that's not gonna happen, but it's also clear that Ukraine would no longer exist as a country without the weapons assistance provided by the US. I cannot and will not accept the argument that we should've simply stood on the sidelines and watched the ethnic genocide of Ukrainians happen instead. The parallels to those who insisted we should've allow the genocide of the Jews during WW2 are uncanny.

Yet you don't care when the same thing happens in some African county, or when hundreds of thousands of chinese are sent to "re-education" camps. Nah, of course not because you are not getting the same narrative from the MSM.

You've probably never been to Europe yourself or like many Americans - been outside of the USA, yet you seem to think what other countries get up to is somehow your buisiness. You probably have never heard of some countries before USA invaded them, but that's ok for the USA to do, but not for anyone else, right!