The situation in Ukraine...

[Valwinz]

il ask this here and I hope i get serious responses dude to what Russia just say.

Is a ThermoNuclear war worth it over Ukraine?

 

[Hanafuda]

Liberals gonna liberal. Leftists know we need guns because fascists have them too, and Putin is being maximum fascist right now.

We don't often agree but in this case I appreciate at least that you see the irony in those tweets.

 

[Joe88]

 

[pustal]

So what? Nord Stream 1 and 2 are ways to diversify pipeline options for Russia. How is that an attempt at attacking German nuclear power?

You don't bet enough on nuclear to accommodate for energetic needs growth since you have another thing to relly on.

The political objective is simply to make German fuel dependent. The level of it was a matter of opportunity.

 

[smf]

Nuclear weapons are just a waste of money unless you're a deranged psychopath like Putin, who might just use them.

I say we get Ukraine in NATO tonight and fast track into the EU and just send in all the bombers and fighters from every nation and take out all the nuclear weapons. If that causes a radiation leak then fuck em.

Series enough?

il ask this here and I hope i get serious responses dude to what Russia just say.

Is a ThermoNuclear war worth it over Ukraine?

 

[smf]

If not true, you had a platoon early yesterday surrendering because they had no intention to kill Ukranians.

"didn't know that they were brought to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians."

How did they not know, how did they find out?

 

[pustal]

Nuclear weapons are just a waste of money unless you're a deranged psychopath like Putin, who might just use them.

I say we get Ukraine in NATO tonight and fast track into the EU and just send in all the bombers and fighters from every nation and take out all the nuclear weapons. If that causes a radiation leak then fuck em.

Series enough?

Nuclear weapons are a deterrent. If Ukraine still had nuclear weapons, Russian wouldn't have invaded. North Korea only exists because it has nuclear power (and is/was backed by a nuclear power).

 

[pustal]

"didn't know that they were brought to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians."

How did they not know, how did they find out?

They were bought to the border with the excuse of preventing an attack, probably thought they were only a deterrent. They found out when they were told to invade.

Also, as it seems, a relevant number of Russian soldiers are draftees, which are illegal in Russia to be dragged into active conflict. It would be reasonable for them to think that was not the plan.

 

[smf]

Nuclear weapons are a deterrent. Had the Ukraine had nuclear weapons still, Russian wouldn't have invaded. North Korea only exists because it has nuclear power (and is/was backed by a nuclear power).

I'm not convinced an actor would push the button.

 

[pustal]

I'm not convinced an actor would push the button.

They wouldn't unless attacked first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction

 

[smf]

They wouldn't unless attacked first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction

I'm pretty sure that by the time nukes land in Ukraine then we're basically all in for WW3. They would practically be shooting themselves.

There is no way Ukraine would launch nukes over this invasion and it wouldn't deter Russia either.

 

[SG854]

So Putin wants Ukrain because geographic location of where Ukrain is placed will give them protection against Nato and the West if they ever turned against Russia in the Future. Putin sees Nato as a future threat.

If Ukrain were to join Nato then that'll put a huge whole against Russia's defense against the west meaning there is more open terrain to enter Russia through Ukrain. Russia wants to close this big opening by taking over Ukrain.

Ukraine has found a large gas and oil deposites. Russian economy is hugely reliant on gas and oil as they import to other countries. If Ukrain tapped into those oil reserves then the west can cut Russia off and instead get most of their oil and gas from Ukraine instead. This will put a huge dent in Russia's economy


So this war is like how all wars start. Money, resources, and gain territory for defense against future invasions.

Russia is rich in natural resources but Putin failed to tap into those resources and became heavily dependent on oil. Putin failed to diversify their economy.

 

[Tomato123]

There is no way Ukraine would launch nukes over this invasion and it wouldn't deter Russia either.

Ukraine doesn't have nukes as far as I know.

 

[Taleweaver]

Some situation...

As with (by now) everyone, I've been watching the invasion unfold. The position of Russia quickly changed from "we need to protect Russian minded groups in Donetsk and Luhansk" to "these groupings should have sovereignty" to "we're going to stop Ukraine for resisting us".

It baffles me in so many ways. I never held Putin in any sort of high regard, but I really thought he was smarter than to downright invade a neighboring country without being provoked in any way. Of course nobody's going to stand for it. It was pretty much a given that no country would side with Russia (aside Belarus, but they're hardly more than a Russian province so they're pretty much insignificant), and that the Oriental side would remain neutral wasn't rocket science either.

So why do it? The situation in the Crimea was only different because it had a lot of Russian supporters on the peninsula (hard to portray yourself as the liberators when the majority doesn't want you in the first place). Donetsk and Luhansk had at best fringe groups allying themselves with Russia. In no way anything resembling a majority, and it was never an annexation either.

So...why? Putin's in power of Russia for years if not decades. NATO and the US never liked the autocracy it turned into after the USSR fell, but it's not their job to run the country (sovereignty, y'know?).
Sure, Ukraine wanted to become a member of NATO which brought the faultline (the proverbial iron curtain) closer to Russia...but NATO wasn't created to be anti-Russia. It's just that Russia's governing style is only not a dictatorship in name only ("you can vote for anyone you choose! No...Not that guy! We imprison him and don't even try to find a non-absurd excuse").

So in that way, Putin's hand might be triggered...but this doesn't strike me as an impulse move at all. Putin might be surrounded by yes-men (unlike Trump, who was surrounded by people who didn't want useless conflicts), but there had to be a plan for this. I don't see Putin gambling that NATO was just going to shrug and let those cities and then Kiev taken because of some propaganda ("oh, so Ukraine is just going to pester some fringe groups in their Eastern region at the exact same time 100'000 alligning Russian soldiers are innocently doing military excercises accidentally directly next to the Ukraine border? Thanks for informing us, Russian-controlled state media ").

He must've known. Perhaps underestimated the severity, but...*ugh*...I don't like to say it, but the rightwing nutjobs in this thread are right that our governments don't do enough. I disagree with some on whether or not that's a good thing, but our response was too slow, not enough and...certainly initially: kind of lame, really.

Belgium's now sending weapons and "is about to" send some troops.

Some troops.

It's better than nothing, I guess, but meanwhile they can get in line behind the many volunteers who went there sending food, clothing or simply transport for the many refugees fleeing Ukraine. I'm in favor of hitting the financial system and oligarchs close to Putin...but that's the sort of news I kind of expect as a backup from the clear and unwavering support we should be given Ukraine the moment the actual invasion began. Not multiple days later.

And with an actual war on our hands, the battle for truth becomes actually important. Remember that "Russia interfered in the 2016 US election" thingy? That's probably regarded as a main rehersal or something in Russian intelligence agencies, whereas the main attraction is trying to sway public opinion away from, or somehow legitimize, their attack.


I don't think they can. From my understanding, the average Russian is very much opposed to this move as well, which means that this isn't so much an attack by Russia as it is by Putin.

I'm not viewing the world through action-movie glasses, but perhaps things really shouldn't be more complicated than it should be. Hurt Russia financially by cutting off any sort of supplies (no, not just for some 1% oligarchs: shut down swift for all the banks operating in the territory). Cut off all transport of goods from and to the place.
Yes, it'll hurt us (I'm not as convinced that my heating isn't at least partially Russian, so it might get cold here). But we've got more allies. we'll win.
No single dictator can just tell the rest of the world what to do.

Last I've read there's some implications of invoking the nuclear arsenal if the West keeps supporting Ukraine. For that, I just repeat myself:

No single dictator can just tell the rest of the world what to do...


Fuckwad.

 

[Purple_Shyguy]

Why is there no footage of any actual fighting?

 

[tpax]

I say we get Ukraine in NATO tonight and fast track into the EU and just send in all the bombers and fighters from every nation and take out all the nuclear weapons. If that causes a radiation leak then fuck em.

No, fuck this shit. Russia and Ukraine are both fucking corrupt shitholes full of retarded idiots (I know that, I've been to both). Don't fucking drag my NATO country into this shit. A nuclear missile silo is less than 100 km away from my city, and we're the first that'll get hit. I don't care enough about some eastern European shithole to risk a war coming to my front-door.

 

[SG854]

Some situation...

As with (by now) everyone, I've been watching the invasion unfold. The position of Russia quickly changed from "we need to protect Russian minded groups in Donetsk and Luhansk" to "these groupings should have sovereignty" to "we're going to stop Ukraine for resisting us".

It baffles me in so many ways. I never held Putin in any sort of high regard, but I really thought he was smarter than to downright invade a neighboring country without being provoked in any way. Of course nobody's going to stand for it. It was pretty much a given that no country would side with Russia (aside Belarus, but they're hardly more than a Russian province so they're pretty much insignificant), and that the Oriental side would remain neutral wasn't rocket science either.

So why do it? The situation in the Crimea was only different because it had a lot of Russian supporters on the peninsula (hard to portray yourself as the liberators when the majority doesn't want you in the first place). Donetsk and Luhansk had at best fringe groups allying themselves with Russia. In no way anything resembling a majority, and it was never an annexation either.

So...why? Putin's in power of Russia for years if not decades. NATO and the US never liked the autocracy it turned into after the USSR fell, but it's not their job to run the country (sovereignty, y'know?).
Sure, Ukraine wanted to become a member of NATO which brought the faultline (the proverbial iron curtain) closer to Russia...but NATO wasn't created to be anti-Russia. It's just that Russia's governing style is only not a dictatorship in name only ("you can vote for anyone you choose! No...Not that guy! We imprison him and don't even try to find a non-absurd excuse").

So in that way, Putin's hand might be triggered...but this doesn't strike me as an impulse move at all. Putin might be surrounded by yes-men (unlike Trump, who was surrounded by people who didn't want useless conflicts), but there had to be a plan for this. I don't see Putin gambling that NATO was just going to shrug and let those cities and then Kiev taken because of some propaganda ("oh, so Ukraine is just going to pester some fringe groups in their Eastern region at the exact same time 100'000 alligning Russian soldiers are innocently doing military excercises accidentally directly next to the Ukraine border? Thanks for informing us, Russian-controlled state media ").

He must've known. Perhaps underestimated the severity, but...*ugh*...I don't like to say it, but the rightwing nutjobs in this thread are right that our governments don't do enough. I disagree with some on whether or not that's a good thing, but our response was too slow, not enough and...certainly initially: kind of lame, really.

Belgium's now sending weapons and "is about to" send some troops.

Some troops.

It's better than nothing, I guess, but meanwhile they can get in line behind the many volunteers who went there sending food, clothing or simply transport for the many refugees fleeing Ukraine. I'm in favor of hitting the financial system and oligarchs close to Putin...but that's the sort of news I kind of expect as a backup from the clear and unwavering support we should be given Ukraine the moment the actual invasion began. Not multiple days later.

And with an actual war on our hands, the battle for truth becomes actually important. Remember that "Russia interfered in the 2016 US election" thingy? That's probably regarded as a main rehersal or something in Russian intelligence agencies, whereas the main attraction is trying to sway public opinion away from, or somehow legitimize, their attack.


I don't think they can. From my understanding, the average Russian is very much opposed to this move as well, which means that this isn't so much an attack by Russia as it is by Putin.

I'm not viewing the world through action-movie glasses, but perhaps things really shouldn't be more complicated than it should be. Hurt Russia financially by cutting off any sort of supplies (no, not just for some 1% oligarchs: shut down swift for all the banks operating in the territory). Cut off all transport of goods from and to the place.
Yes, it'll hurt us (I'm not as convinced that my heating isn't at least partially Russian, so it might get cold here). But we've got more allies. we'll win.
No single dictator can just tell the rest of the world what to do.

Last I've read there's some implications of invoking the nuclear arsenal if the West keeps supporting Ukraine. For that, I just repeat myself:

No single dictator can just tell the rest of the world what to do...


Fuckwad.

Unprovoked but Putin wants land, resources and security. That's pretty much how all wars start.

 

[subcon959]

Let's hope Putin doesn't get terminal cancer as I'm pretty sure he won't hesitate to launch all the nukes.

 

[pustal]

Why is there no footage of any actual fighting?

There usually isn't. People are usually either fighting or hiding when guns are fired.

 

[pustal]

No, fuck this shit. Russia and Ukraine are both fucking corrupt shitholes full of retarded idiots (I know that, I've been to both). Don't fucking drag my NATO country into this shit. A nuclear missile silo is less than 100 km away from my city, and we're the firts that'll get hit. I don't care enough about some eastern European shithole to risk a war coming to my front-door.

I thought that Gambia

does not own, possess, or control nuclear weapons

Are you telling me otherwise?

Even if so, why the hell would it be the first to get hit?

Also Gambia isn't in NATO.