How do you feel about abortion?

[DeadlyFoez]

Using US law as a measuring stick for morality is troublesome at best.

I think you missed my point.

But I don't want to get into an argument with you anyways as we have always been on rather good terms.

 

[notimp]

You can shove your amendments up your ass, I am not american and the WORLD is not the USA. We are talking about a universal subject, in the Internet, where people from all around the world talk to each other.

I don't care about your laws and your pathetic stance, is about what is right and what is wrong, as simple as that. And like I said before, if you people have to be taught like little children about it, that means you are lost already and there is no sense speaking to souless dolls without conscience.

I'll try this one.

At the heart of this argument lies "is life sacred" and the answer to that is no. Talking about a whole bunch of concepts like war, or risk management (life and death situations), or law even (death penalty in some countries)...

So if its not sacred there have to be rules around it to especially protect the ones who cant protect themselves.

One of those rules in concept f.e. is to minimize harm. Abortions specifically are legal up to the point where the fetus develops most of its sensory ability and then its prohibited.

If you are asking, why you cant make this illegal from the start, the answer is, just because something is illegal, it wont prevent people from doing it. Especially in this case, there is simply no way. So as a responsible legislator, you provide legal and safe venues for it, not to generate more harm.

Now. Giving birth to a child is a monumental moment in someones life, and if its layered with bad emotions or trauma, no one is helped. Especially not the child. Now - the argument goes, that you can always give away your newborn - if you feel, that you cant handle the situation, but thats the parents choice as well. So I'll punch anyone in the mouth who dares to give them good tips, on how those children should end up in care facilities.

People who "fight" for the LIFE of every child, usually couldnt care less about a mother who has just given birth to their first child, and is now supposed to give it away, because they are unable to care for it. They are done with here, once the child is in "caring hands" so to speak. And thats causing trauma as well.

Because you are seen by the parents, and by society as only being interested in new life, and not in the 'old'. Yes you've found it extremely easy to say that you could care about a new life better than someone who has though about abortion. But thats a low bar even by your definition. You dont care how people get into that situation. You dont care to help them, and if you are part of the religious right you are mostly out there to help to create this situation, by also marching against safe sex on your off days.

People can be ruined by having to give their newborns away, because they have to admit, that they cant care for it sufficiently. People can be ruined by growing up in families, that couldnt make the decision to give away their newborn just because.

Pregnancies can start by chance, and be unwanted. And not every pregnancy story ends like a conservative wishfullfillment novel - with the prospective parents dealing with it and growing stronger.

The only acceptable conclusion is, that there has to be a way to terminate pregnancies at the wish of the mother - up to a certain point in the pregnancy - where you start to elevate the rights of the unborn child above the ones of the mother.

All of that is in place in western democracies. And there is no way around it. Because people will always get themselves into the situation where they dont know what to do next - and because considering abortion will always be part of what they will do. Regardless of legality.

If you keep it legal up to a point, you can "force them" to at least be informed about other potential options and think about those. Thats all you can do. That and not advertising for the "easyness of early abortion" which also is illegal at least in the country I am from.

Also - get your religious crazed friends of the "safe life" movement out of the part of the process where women are informed about their options. People can smell a religious nut who wants them to birth a baby. Thats another thing that falls under minimizing harm.

Now - I was an unwanted child, according to some stories of my parents. And they dealt with the situation and it wasnt all roses. Yet I'm still glad, that I'm living.

Leave that decision in the hands of the prospective parents. Dont get into fantasies about the "just" action of saving babies lives. Take a turn somewhere before that - you are helping no one - looking at the bigger picture. Could I interest you in animal rights, for example? I mean - you wont go home gloating, having "saved" a babies life everyday... But if thats your motivation for doing advocacy - you have bigger issues. (God complex.)

 

[dimmidice]

I think there are a lot of benefits.

1. Maintain your girly figure.
2. No nagging brats hanging at your ankle.
3. Nothing to hold you back from your career.
4. Satisfy that life long curiosity; get out there and see what this abortion business is all about!
5. With abortion, there is zero reason not to walk scantly clad through a high crime neighborhood.
6. Give the middle finger to God, or Nature, or what ever it is that people make up and worship.
7. Nothing else to do.
8. Become a Hero.

You're fucked in the head.

 

[GilgameshArcher]

I think its a must, less people born is better.

Less criminals, less poor ppl, less suffering

 

[mattytrog]

At the end of the day, its a womans choice.
However, in my eyes, it is murder. And they deserved to be treated as such.

The only exception are babies who have zero chance of survival. Or abuse victims. Then the woman has my sympathies. And they have to do what needs to be done, in the best interests of the child & mother. Whatever that may be. Nobody would think any less of her for doing so.

The most terrible terrible thing are those abortions VERY late. A metal spike / hook & a vacuum.
When she looks the big man in the eye come judgement time, lets hope he can forgive.

 

[Deleted-401606]

Ive been noticing more conservatives on GBAtemp.How the hell did this even happen? I remember 3 years ago people were getting banned for not being liberals on here.Weird.

 

[notimp]

Or abuse victims. Then the woman has my sympathies.

Thats not how this works.

In essence, no one cares about sympathies or well wishes, or understanding. This is a matter of minimizing harm. When or where society thinks it is rectified, plays absolutely no role in it. (For as long as society is still pro having 'intelligent people' ruling over them.)

(Is a women now supposed to prove that she was raped, before being allowed to have an abortion?)

Society can take their morals and suck on them so to speak. You make this a universal right - up to a point - to minimize harm, not to cater to peoples moral believes.

Because on a bad day, they believe in etherial beings raigning them from the sky - giving them instructions on what to do morally, on stone tablets.

Leave that part out of it. At least out of the process. If you have to judge a women for having an abortion after it, we cant prevent it.

 

[Deleted-479522]

Ive been noticing more conservatives on GBAtemp.How the hell did this even happen? I remember 3 years ago people were getting banned for not being liberals on here.Weird.

Goal posts have changed. People call me conservative. I'm about as liberal as they get.

Some others call me liberal....

It's getting harder and harder to be a centralist.

 

[haxan]

if the mother was having complications and having a child would endanger her life then i do agree with abortion. if the parents can afford to take care of the baby but just "feel" like they are not ready then its not okay. this includes underage teen moms as well, they can easily take care of the baby with their parents or even put the child for adoption.
I don't know about other situations but i hope you guys can enlighten me if i said something wrong.

 

[Xzi]

The most terrible terrible thing are those abortions VERY late. A metal spike / hook & a vacuum.

Abortion is legal precisely so people don't have to get it done in a back alley with a hook and a vacuum. And late-term abortion isn't legal anywhere unless the mother's life is endangered. As I said before, this is settled law, and the only reason it continues to come up is because it's one of two issues that keep the Republican party from fading entirely into irrelevancy. Abortion and immigration. I have no idea how they square their 'compassion' on the topic of abortion with their hatred of immigrant children, but it is what it is I guess.

 

[mattytrog]

Thats not how this works.

In essence, no one cares about sympathies or well wishes, or understanding. This is a matter of minimizing harm. When or where society thinks it is rectified, plays absolutely no role in it.

Society can take their morals and suck on them so to speak. You make this a universal right - up to a point - to minimize harm, not to cater to peoples moral believes.

Because on a bad day, they believe in etherial beings raigning them from the sky - giving them instructions on what to do morally, on stone tablets.

Leave that part out of it. At least out of the process. If you have to judge a women for having an abortion after it, we cant prevent it.

The title of the thread is "How do you feel about abortion".

Thats my feeling. Unless there is medical need or from rape / abuse, abortion is wrong in my eyes. They should have been on birth control.

A long time ago, when I was a young lad, a woman I was seeing got pregnant. All went well, so I thought. Until one day when I came home from work, she said the baby is gone. Just like that.

Her excuse? She "didn`t want to be taking a kid to school at 40".

So... sorry, not much sympathy.

Repeating myself again, medical need, or abuse / rape circumstances, that is somewhat different.

The rest of them, not exactly wife material are they? And they should be hanged from a lamppost accordingly.

 

[Xzi]

Thats my feeling. Unless there is medical need or from rape / abuse, abortion is wrong in my eyes. They should have been on birth control.

A long time ago, when I was a young lad, a woman I was seeing got pregnant. All went well, so I thought. Until one day when I came home from work, she said the baby is gone. Just like that.

And you bare no responsibility for not wearing a condom? AFAIK they even have birth control pills for men now, don't just put the decision in someone else's hands and feign innocence.

 

[sarkwalvein]

And you bare no responsibility for not wearing a condom? AFAIK they even have birth control pills for men now, don't just put the decision in someone else's hands and feign innocence.

reading comprehension fail?

 

[notimp]

Thats my feeling. Unless there is medical need or from rape / abuse, abortion is wrong in my eyes. They should have been on birth control.

I'm trying to lay out, why it is not a good idea to have this decided by most peoples feelings.

Simply because if I tell you, that its for the children, and babies have to be saved - people even are in favor of starting wars (quite recently actually.. ). Everything goes for most people, at that point.

Some of the laws are written from a position if inevitability not of "people need to become good and just by moral standards".

Its fine for you to discuss morals standings - but the pro life advocacy groups in the US also try to have political impact - and at that point it becomes an issue.

Because you cant argue with people who believe that their god made it their mission to safe baby lives. To them everything is clear as day already.

In reality its more complicated.

Birth control can fail. Also people arent always the best judges of action, when it comes to having sex. Stuff like that will always happen, you cant prevent it even with the best education, and access to free birth control. You can minimize it though.

But then you write laws to deal with it, not to please the public, or god.

 

[Kioku]

The title of the thread is "How do you feel about abortion".

Thats my feeling. Unless there is medical need or from rape / abuse, abortion is wrong in my eyes. They should have been on birth control.

A long time ago, when I was a young lad, a woman I was seeing got pregnant. All went well, so I thought. Until one day when I came home from work, she said the baby is gone. Just like that.

Her excuse? She "didn`t want to be taking a kid to school at 40".

So... sorry, not much sympathy.

Repeating myself again, medical need, or abuse / rape circumstances, that is somewhat different.

The rest of them, not exactly wife material are they? And they should be hanged from a lamppost accordingly.

Going around, spreading your legs for the first shaft that comes your way.. I can't sympathize. I agree with you. There's really only extenuating circumstances that could be justified. The thing that gets me is that some wait until the last trimester to do it. It's sick.

 

[Xzi]

reading comprehension fail?

I don't see how, he said it was a woman he "was seeing." I'm pretty sure he got her pregnant, not somebody else. Clearly she wasn't ready to have a child, so that's probably something they should've discussed before he knocked her up.

 

[Deleted-479522]

They should have been on birth control.

Too many women are having sex on birth control for this to be a legitimate consideration.

Take the pill for example, 97% effective. This is women-years so not as intuitive as you might imagine.

It sounds good until you realise that this means for every 100 women using it as birth control a year 3 of them will get pregnant.

That's a fuck tonne of pregnancies to says "Whelp should have been using birth control!"

 

[mattytrog]

And you bare no responsibility for not wearing a condom? AFAIK they even have birth control pills for men now, don't just put the decision in someone else's hands and feign innocence.

A condom? Lol
Rather different when you are in a committed relationship and have discussed such things. We discussed it many times and everyone was actually rather pleased after the initial shock.

25 years ago there was no male pill. And it was left stupidly late.

The male should take some responsibility for birth control, I agree.

But he doesn't exactly get a lot of say in it. Regarding what happens after.
Does he.

 

[Owenge]

I'm going to be real here:
The whole reason they are legal is because women would go to 3rd parties (not certified clinics because there was none at the time) and most women that would die after the operation was done. So if the US did happen to make abortions illegal, women would have to go though these 3rd parties instead of the safe method. Look back on alcohol prohibition, it just made alcohol more expensive and expanded the market. Overall we don't need another ban on items that most people still use/need i.e. abortions/guns

p.s: this is just my opinion, please inform me if anything I said is wrong (fact wise). Thank you and have a great day
- Owenge

 

[Xzi]

A condom? Lol
Rather different when you are in a committed relationship and have discussed such things. We discussed it many times and everyone was actually rather pleased after the initial shock.

Wait, what? So you discussed it and decided an abortion would be fine if she did get pregnant? Or did she say she'd keep it and then changed her mind after getting pregnant?

The male should take some responsibility for birth control, I agree.

But he doesn't exactly get a lot of say in it. Regarding what happens after.
Does he.

If it's a healthy relationship he does. If it isn't, then abortion or adoption are probably for the best anyway.