How do you feel about abortion?

[osaka35]

Some things to keep in mind:

- contraceptives fail all the time. They increase the chances of not getting pregnant, they do not negate it.
- The conversation is about bodily autonomy. At what point do fuzzy blueprints for a human get bodily autonomy? At what point does that override the mother's autonomy?
- You can do everything right and still not succeed. This is not a failure, this is just life. Someone getting pregnant does not mean someone did something wrong and need to be punished. Even if they did, punishment is a silly way to deal with the topic
- This conversation touches on 1) inherent rights, 2) morality, 3) legality, 4) religion, 5) politics, 6) health. Know what category you're appealing to and know what category someone else is speaking on.

 

[Xzi]

I'm going to be real here:
The whole reason they are legal is because women would go to 3rd parties (not certified clinics because there was none at the time) and most women that would die after the operation was done. So if the US did happen to make abortions illegal, women would have to go though these 3rd parties instead of the safe method. Look back on alcohol prohibition, it just made alcohol more expensive and expanded the market. Overall we don't need another ban on items that most people still use/need i.e. abortions/guns

p.s: this is just my opinion, please inform me if anything I said is wrong (fact wise). Thank you and have a great day
- Owenge

100% correct. It's a necessity to keep abortion legal, because the demand for abortions doesn't magically go down when you outlaw them. GOP Senators would just take their mistresses/hookers to back alleys again instead.

 

[mattytrog]

I don't see how, he said it was a woman he "was seeing." I'm pretty sure he got her pregnant, not somebody else. Clearly she wasn't ready to have a child, so that's probably something they should've discussed before he knocked her up.

What if I told you we had discussed it? And it didn't stop her having young sons before this event. Yep. Already a mother.

Like I say, it was a relationship. That's what happened.

The last thing I'll do is justify myself to any prick on here, but I will say this... There is no reason to leave it so late.

That late, it is a baby in there. Developed brainstem, cortices, can respond to stimuli. By then, it is tough shit in my eyes.

"Pro-life" or "Pro-choice"... I'm Pro life.

 

[sarkwalvein]

Wait, what? So you discussed it and decided an abortion would be fine if she did get pregnant? Or did she say she'd keep it and then changed her mind after getting pregnant?


If it's a healthy relationship he does. If it isn't, then abortion or adoption are probably for the best anyway.

That's the reason I guessed there was a reading comprehension failure, perhaps it was mine either.
What I understood from the post is that it was kind of decided that they were going to have the baby, but then suddenly unilaterally a different choice was made.

My understanding of the post anyway...

 

[mattytrog]

Wait, what? So you discussed it and decided an abortion would be fine if she did get pregnant? Or did she say she'd keep it and then changed her mind after getting pregnant?


If it's a healthy relationship he does. If it isn't, then abortion or adoption are probably for the best anyway.

No... We discussed birth control. Do you really think we discussed abortions? It wasn't happening.

We were both dead against that.

Or so I thought.
Anything else?

 

[deinonychus71]

You can shove your amendments up your ass, I am not american and the WORLD is not the USA. We are talking about a universal subject, in the Internet, where people from all around the world talk to each other.

I don't care about your laws and your pathetic stance, is about what is right and what is wrong, as simple as that. And like I said before, if you people have to be taught like little children about it, that means you are lost already and there is no sense speaking to souless dolls without conscience.

Right back at ya. I am not religious and the WORLD doesn't have to deal anymore with the bullshit spat out of a fantasy book. We don't have to bend the knee to sectarianism and cult bullshit. The Spanish inquisition is over, has been for a long time.

Haven't you heard the news? The Human Rights aren't just a thing of the US. https://www.hrw.org/legacy/women/abortion.html

Get off of your high ground. You can believe the Earth is flat all you want but there is no place in public debate for superstitious propaganda anymore.

 

[Deleted-479522]

So many people in this thread, presumable men, presumable rarely laid, seem to think of sex as negative. As though having sex is a bad thing.

It aint.

People are allowed to fuck, it's pretty much the only simple joy we have left in this world.

With condoms and abortions it's very harmless too.

 

[Xzi]

No... We discussed birth control. Do you really think we discussed abortions?

We were both dead against that.

Or so I thought.
Anything else?

Nothing else. If she lied to you about a topic that serious, then the relationship probably wasn't that healthy/stable and it was best for you to move on anyway. Who knows what other lies she was covering up, and bringing a child into the middle of that likely would've ended up a lot worse for everybody.

 

[nashismo]

So many people in this thread, presumable men, presumable rarely laid, seem to think of sex as negative. As though having sex is a bad thing.

It aint.

People are allowed to fuck, it's pretty much the only simple joy we have left in this world.

With condoms and abortions it's very harmless too.

The only joy for souless men, of course. If you don't have anything else that can make you feel joy, then is true, but it is sad.

Still I don't see anyone anyone in this thread saying sex is bad, we are only against the murdering of little babies and the pathetic worms that defend this barbaric behavior.

 

[mattytrog]

Nothing else. If she lied to you about a serious topic that serious, then the relationship probably wasn't that healthy/stable and it was best for you to move on anyway. Who knows what other lies she was covering up, and bringing a child into the middle of that likely would've ended up a lot worse for everybody.

Yep. Very possibly.

It says something about my ignorance when I didn't see there was a problem.

But yes. Terminated without my knowledge, in spite of discussing far earlier in the pregnancy. Bear in mind we are talking months here.

Through the grapevine, I heard many years later that she was still in love with her "ex" and didn't want the young un.

But it was a long long time ago. Who knows? It might have made her ill mentally.

Didn't change the fact that a real baby lost its life for no good reason. Most young lads would be grateful that they weren't "shackled with a kid". So... Each to their own.

Should abortion be outlawed? No. Because stupid women will get it done with a knitting needle or castor oil or whatever. Leading to further risk. So it needs to be regulated and the clinics should attempt to educate these idiots.

 

[notimp]

"But then I'm pro life." Is probably the stupidest phrase ever uttered. As long as you are not trying to change law for the worse, no one even cares, that you have to play armchair coach for every teen girl in your neighborhood.

If you do - people most likely think that you are crazed. And If you are starting to gain political traction, people ought to struck you down asap - because you still dont know what you are doing here.

If you are arguing on the level of "but it wasnt even her first child, it was her fourth" - I'm also leaving you to talk to yourself - because I've lost any grasp of what strand of the argument you are after here.

(Thats the reason why you grant it as a universal right, and not have "moral councils" that would grant it - selectively. Idiot.)
-

Here is the essential argument.

If you are still at the "young girls also have responsibility" and "they spread their legs for the first shaft that comes along" stage of "moral arguing" -- you are stuck at some odd stage of wanting to deny people to get some, and sharing it with the world. I couldnt care less.

Thats all "moral playschool" and you can do that until the word grows old if you must.

I'm thinking about how conceptually people deal with life they cant care about, or induced trauma - because of forced separation, or because of neglect, or an inability to handle the situation. Because sadly those are things that exist as well, and don't go away, simply because you tell a girl to shut her legs - which approx 40% of people in here would like to do - at some point in their lives.

If you then argue, that those are your feelings and your feelings cant be wrong - I might lose it.

But only as far as the legal position is concerned. If you want to judge people you know nothing about on your days off - be my guest. Don't try to change the law, or "help" women in their second trimester by telling them about your religious friends. Thats all I'm asking.

Also, may I inform you, that if you are against teenage pregnancies, you are #winning, because close to every developed country in the world is experiencing a decline of birth rates. (Your morals tell you to be for something and against something at the same time, how about that..)

Its not that the catholic church has exclusive rights to be against birth control and against abortions at the same time. They even have moral superiority on it. They call it a sin. How novel.

Still doesnt make it go away.

"But I'm pro life!"

And I'm pro grow a brain, if you have time to. The problem is more complicated than people not having the right kind of morals. So argue morals all you want - just know, that thats only part of the problem at most.

 

[mattytrog]

I suppose the bigger question is, as males, our opinion is irrelevant.

So should we be making judgement at all?

May be best to keep our feelings to ourselves in these subjects.

Edit: glad to see our resident leftylefty with his wall of text. How you doing notimp?

 

[Deleted-479522]

I suppose the bigger question is, as males, our opinion is irrelevant.

So should we be making judgement at all?

May be best to keep our feelings to ourselves in these subjects.

I don't agree really because in a democracy everyone equally gets to make the rules...

I do agree with the spirit of what you're saying though, but I would take it further. No one, not men, not women, not the father of the child has an significant opinion in the matter of a woman having something done to her body.

Be that a nipple piercing or an abortion.

That's pretty much the core principle of negative liberty libertarians.

 

[spectral]

I find it amusing that people from a country with the death penalty try to play the legalised murder card.

 

[sarkwalvein]

I find it amusing that people from a country with the death penalty try to play the legalised murder card.

Which country?

 

[Xzi]

I suppose the bigger question is, as males, our opinion is irrelevant.

So should we be making judgement at all?

May be best to keep our feelings to ourselves in these subjects.

There's no issue with having an opinion on the topic, but ultimately it does make very little difference. As I said before, I'd bet that pro-life individuals have abortions at about the same rate as pro-choice individuals. Hell, Sarah Palin's family alone probably makes up half of the abortion stats in Alaska.

I find it amusing that people from a country with the death penalty try to play the legalised murder card.

The death penalty is only legal in a few states, not nationwide. Personally I think being locked away for life is a much harsher sentence to deal with than having it ended for you in an instant. Especially since there's always a chance of being raped/murdered during hard jail time anyway.

 

[spectral]

There's no issue with having an opinion on the topic, but ultimately it does make very little difference. As I said before, I'd bet that pro-life individuals have abortions at about the same rate as pro-choice individuals. Hell, Sarah Palin's family alone probably makes up half of the abortion stats in Alaska.


The death penalty is only legal in a few states, not nationwide. Personally I think being locked away for life is a much harsher sentence to deal with than having it ended for you in an instant. Especially since there's always a chance of being raped/murdered during hard jail time anyway.

The point wasn't so much how harsh a punishment it is, just that is literally legalised murder.

 

[Deleted-479522]

The point wasn't so much how harsh a punishment it is, just that is literally legalised murder.

I think every country has an army, or some sort of armed police. What's the difference?

 

[spectral]

I think every country has an army, or some sort of armed police. What's the difference?

Good point, so then why do people get so hell bent that abortion is unforgivable because it is just legalised murder. Governments legalise murder all the time.

 

[Xzi]

Good point, so then why do people get so hell bent that abortion is unforgivable because it is just legalised murder. Governments legalise murder all the time.

Beats me, some people seem to think that unborn fetuses have far more value than people who are already alive and walking the planet. If I had to guess, it probably has something to do with struggling against our own animal nature. We see animals kill or even eat their own newborns in the wild all the time, so our reverence for fetuses and newborns is likely a reactionary position based on the perceived 'evils' of nature.