Piracy certainly did harm nintendo with their previous consoles. They got by just fine but Nintendo and game devs would have been better of without piracy.
Hacking Discussion Isn't anyone else here SERIOUSLY concerned for Nintendo or indie devs?
- Thread starter WaveSmash
- Start date
- Views 10,482
- Replies 127
Piracy certainly did harm nintendo with their previous consoles. They got by just fine but Nintendo and game devs would have been better of without piracy.
Nintendo are sitting on a 'service model' now which is about to net them millions of subscriptions and the revenue that goes with it, even many 'pirates' will be paying for that too, so no worries there at all.
You could probably try to argue that ironically it's us, if anyone, that piracy effects. As revenue from lost games sales begins to fall publishers begin to lose interest in single player games, to focus on online micro-transactions.
However, you could just as easily argue that games publishers are simply greedy little capatilists; ready to wring every single penny, repeatedly, from our brainwashed collective.
So I'm saying pirate whatever the fuck you want, and if you do somehow manage to destroy some mega corporation in the process... win win.
You could probably try to argue that ironically it's us, if anyone, that piracy effects. As revenue from lost games sales begins to fall publishers begin to lose interest in single player games, to focus on online micro-transactions.
However, you could just as easily argue that games publishers are simply greedy little capatilists; ready to wring every single penny, repeatedly, from our brainwashed collective.
So I'm saying pirate whatever the fuck you want, and if you do somehow manage to destroy some mega corporation in the process... win win.
If it weren't for switch hacking, I wasn't going to have a switch. I bit the bullet and got one just for hacking. So I wasn't originally going to support anyhow.
not really. the number of people who will hack their switch now or in the future is still pretty low, same is and was always true for any other console, even the ds with its flashcards galore. the loss is ultimately irrelevant.
while a percent more of profits isn't anything to look down on, the hackers would never have been part of the actively paying group anyways, so nothing to lose here.
add to that the recently revealed anti piracy measures means that even the biggest pirates wont come online for long and probably have to buy at least one additional system and a few games anyways.
while a percent more of profits isn't anything to look down on, the hackers would never have been part of the actively paying group anyways, so nothing to lose here.
add to that the recently revealed anti piracy measures means that even the biggest pirates wont come online for long and probably have to buy at least one additional system and a few games anyways.
Piracy does not harm companies, it's a load of crap! ...piracy does increase hardware sales though!!
If people can afford to buy a game etc they will buy it! ...if not, then they will pirate it.
Where it the lost sale in that?? ...take the secondhand / used market, is that also piracy??
People buy what they can afford!
If people can afford to buy a game etc they will buy it! ...if not, then they will pirate it.
Where it the lost sale in that?? ...take the secondhand / used market, is that also piracy??
People buy what they can afford!
Last edited by Deleted member 331788,
I don't see how it costs millions to develop indie games, I have to call bullshit. Let me break this down into swallowable chunks, and take a good in-depth view of an indie dev studio:
The bullshit that needs cleared-up first:
1.) Before even developing the game they want to make, they already have all the hardware and software needed besides the dev kits, so that's out.
2.) Electricity costs for the computers of even say... a 20 person indie dev team, is difficult to measure, but developing a game won't really use any more electricity than playing a game.
Now for some REAL costs to the devs:
1.) Payroll. How much to indie devs make, who pays them, and where does this money come from before the game is even out? Do they work for free, banking on the game being a success, or do they have a rich overlord cracking a whip that gives them a salary? For me, this is left as UNKNOWN.
2.) It's a little over $800 for a Nintendo Switch dev kit, so let's round up and just say $850 x 20 Switch dev kits = $17,000 for our 20-man dev team to cough-up first-hand. If they make more than one title with this dev kit, they can just keep profiting from this hardware investment.
3.) Online journalists posting about their game coming up is online advertising by word-of-mouth, and generally free unless they commission someone to do it.
4.) I don't know about printing or publishing costs for retail, but electronic is free since you bought the dev kits.
So I guess all-in-all $17,000 in the hole isn't that bad for a 20-man dev team to make indie titles on the Switch. Especially if it's a big hit, like Cave Story, Super Meatboy, Stardew Valley, etc. Keep cranking out digital hits, and your studio shouldn't run out of money.
The bullshit that needs cleared-up first:
1.) Before even developing the game they want to make, they already have all the hardware and software needed besides the dev kits, so that's out.
2.) Electricity costs for the computers of even say... a 20 person indie dev team, is difficult to measure, but developing a game won't really use any more electricity than playing a game.
Now for some REAL costs to the devs:
1.) Payroll. How much to indie devs make, who pays them, and where does this money come from before the game is even out? Do they work for free, banking on the game being a success, or do they have a rich overlord cracking a whip that gives them a salary? For me, this is left as UNKNOWN.
2.) It's a little over $800 for a Nintendo Switch dev kit, so let's round up and just say $850 x 20 Switch dev kits = $17,000 for our 20-man dev team to cough-up first-hand. If they make more than one title with this dev kit, they can just keep profiting from this hardware investment.
3.) Online journalists posting about their game coming up is online advertising by word-of-mouth, and generally free unless they commission someone to do it.
4.) I don't know about printing or publishing costs for retail, but electronic is free since you bought the dev kits.
So I guess all-in-all $17,000 in the hole isn't that bad for a 20-man dev team to make indie titles on the Switch. Especially if it's a big hit, like Cave Story, Super Meatboy, Stardew Valley, etc. Keep cranking out digital hits, and your studio shouldn't run out of money.
Only sith deal in absolutes!
The second hand / used market hurts sales, but that's a "what aboutism" argument. It doesn't negate the problem of piracy.
More seriously. I know quite a few people from the Wii era who could afford a game and instead chose to pirate it, because it's free so they could instead buy ps3 games (before it gets hacked as well...).
-----------------------------------
I really don't like how this thread is going with "piracy doesn't hurt sales". I feel there's a lot of over simplification of the problem.
- "The pirates wouldn't have bought the games in the first place". Not everyone yes, and there are people who would have bought them. That's still a loss no matter how small it is.
- "They make more money in hardware". That may be true, although there's obviously no proof of that. But then it doesn't take into account that this money doesn't necessarily go to the developer of the game that was pirated. In this case, it goes to Nintendo, it won't go to an indie dev.
Does it hurt sales? Yes it does.
Is it in a proportion that matters? When it comes to Nintendo I don't think so.
Personally I care more about the online getting ruined by hacking than anything else. I do wish piracy wouldn't come so early, though.
Last edited by deinonychus71,
The 3DS was easy. I find the current methods for Fusee are a pain in the ass, and I've been involved in hacking scenes since the PSP. I think you're overestimating how many hurdles and how much trouble the average person is willing to go through. Hence the TX sales and hence why 10/20k are probably reasonable numbers there.
ah these guys.... Yes, you only emulated what u bought. Clap clap clap, but to me that is BS
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 12,009
- Trophies
- 3
- Location
- In the Murderbox!
- Website
- www.twitch.tv
- XP
- 16,158
- Country
You're going to claim there's no proof that console sales help profit, but boldly claim piracy hurts sales? Okay...Only sith deal in absolutes!
The second hand / used market hurts sales, but that's a "what aboutism" argument. It doesn't negate the problem of piracy.
More seriously. I know quite a few people from the Wii era who could afford a game and instead chose to pirate it, because it's free so they could instead buy ps3 games (before it gets hacked as well...).
-----------------------------------
I really don't like how this thread is going with "piracy doesn't hurt sales". I feel there's a lot of over simplification of the problem.
- "The pirates wouldn't have bought the games in the first place". Not everyone yes, and there are people who would have bought them. That's still a loss no matter how small it is.
- "They make more money in hardware". That may be true, although there's obviously no proof of that. But then it doesn't take into account that this money doesn't necessarily go to the developer of the game that was pirated. In this case, it goes to Nintendo, it won't go to an indie dev.
Does it hurt sales? Yes it does.
Is it in a proportion that matters? When it comes to Nintendo I don't think so.
Personally I care more about the online getting ruined by hacking than anything else. I do wish piracy wouldn't come so early, though.
Are't they all crowdfunded anyways??
I wish the Nindies would just go away, makes the system look bad!
What you say is your own opinion, in Europe there is a study that piracy indeed boost sells in video games, and reduces in the movie industry, there is no study that proves that piracy hurts sells, you could say is common knowledge but is not in practiceOnly sith deal in absolutes!
The second hand / used market hurts sales, but that's a "what aboutism" argument. It doesn't negate the problem of piracy.
More seriously. I know quite a few people from the Wii era who could afford a game and instead chose to pirate it, because it's free so they could instead buy ps3 games (before it gets hacked as well...).
-----------------------------------
I really don't like how this thread is going with "piracy doesn't hurt sales". I feel there's a lot of over simplification of the problem.
- "The pirates wouldn't have bought the games in the first place". Not everyone yes, and there are people who would have bought them. That's still a loss no matter how small it is.
- "They make more money in hardware". That may be true, although there's obviously no proof of that. But then it doesn't take into account that this money doesn't necessarily go to the developer of the game that was pirated. In this case, it goes to Nintendo, it won't go to an indie dev.
Does it hurt sales? Yes it does.
Is it in a proportion that matters? When it comes to Nintendo I don't think so.
Personally I care more about the online getting ruined by hacking than anything else. I do wish piracy wouldn't come so early, though.
I gave my opinion as to why it can hurt, actually. Even if you get more in hardware, it doesn't go to the same people.
I suggest you just google "piracy indie game". Of course you can always say there's no proof because it's self reported and all... but that's pretty much exactly what this study everyone talks about is, a study based on self reported stats.
This has been thrown like a wildcard here. Is this a study about piracy on Nintendo platforms? on the PSP? PC? All combined? Does it affect big publishers more than indies?
That's what I'm saying about oversimplifying a situation. What barely scratches a big company COULD hurt indies (OP's concern), and there's no study that goes deep enough to "prove" any of that. Also studies based on self reported information are by nature not proof.
So yeah, it comes down to our opinions in the end.
The answer is most likely somewhere in the middle, but I'm sorry, claiming piracy doesn't hurt sales is the bold statement, it intentionally generalizes even though the actors in this industry are wildly different.
Last edited by deinonychus71,
Prove us that it hurts the industry? have you made an study?, a study is shown that it hurts indie devs? show proof, not only your opinion
you can have an educational read of 300 pages here
https://juliareda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf
Last edited by kamesenin888,
I actually edited that before receiving your answer because I somehow knew this was going to circle back to it.
Yes, it's all just opinions. It's what a debate of opinions is.
- Joined
- May 28, 2018
- Messages
- 645
- Trophies
- 0
- Location
- Barstow, on the edge of the desert
- XP
- 1,874
- Country
Personally I see pirated game players as people who generally wouldn't buy the title they are pirating.
Myself if I enjoy it enough I'll usually buy it, I doubt this is going to kill the switch... 3ds did fine still does really.
Myself if I enjoy it enough I'll usually buy it, I doubt this is going to kill the switch... 3ds did fine still does really.
